EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[HMS Ark Royal]

Yes and as I pointed out earlier the Conservative opposition which included Cameron, Gove, Johnson, May and Duncan-Smith, criticised Labour for doing that and demanded a General Election. A change from pro-EU Cameron to Johnson would be a much more significant change.

Just thinking, there were a few changes in the old days with Churchill taking over and then resigning as PM.

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If we leave the EU, which is still to be decided upon, can we have armed customs launches again going up to ships shouting "Heave to, Please - Her Majesty's Customs... I'm coming aboard"?

That happened in the good old days - my old man used to tell me it

 

[northwichcat]

When the economy goes into depression?

When unemployment shoots through the roof?

Let's wait for those things to happen before making judgements, yeah?

Wait you'll only accept a mistake was made if the state of the economy becomes worse than it's been since the 1930s?

Gordon Brown and George Osborne have both admitted they've made mistakes but neither have made any mistakes which have had consequences that severe but it seems those would be non-issues to you.

 

[DarloRich]

If we leave the EU, which is still to be decided upon, can we have armed customs launches again going up to ships shouting "Heave to, Please - Her Majesty's Customs... I'm coming aboard"?

That happened in the good old days - my old man used to tell me it

I think that may be a fair way down the list of things we need to worry about. :roll:

 

[northwichcat]

A 8% drop against the dollar sounded bad until:

Sterling was down 7.5% earlier against the Brazilian real - one of the world's worst performing currencies. Sterling has since recovered a bit, falling 6.7% against the real to 4.6435.

 

[miami]

We've had it before when a PM has stood down and another one taken their place without an election - Blair to Brown being the most recent

And it was undemocratic then too.

 

[LexyBoy]

And it was undemocratic then too.

Democracy does not mean everything must be decided at the ballot box.

The fact that FPTP can (and does) mean that a party can hold an overall majority with well below half of all votes (34% from memory for the current government) is a much bigger issue IMO.

 

[DelayRepay]

If we leave the EU, which is still to be decided upon...

Erm, haven't you seen the news today? :roll:

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Erm, haven't you seen the news today? :roll:

That was a referendum - it was not legally binding

 

[DelayRepay]

That was a referendum - it was not legally binding

But there is no way the next PM can ignore the result. It is quite strange that you say in a previous post you voted out, and seem not to realise what you were voting for.

There are people on the news and on social media who voted out and are now regretting it. Did these people think they were voting in a reality TV show? Did they think it was similar to voting someone out of the Big Brother house?

It's pretty obvious that England and Wales will leave the EU. What happens to Scotland and Northern Ireland is another question all together.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

But there is no way the next PM can ignore the result. It is quite strange that you say in a previous post you voted out, and seem not to realise what you were voting for.

There are people on the news and on social media who voted out and are now regretting it. Did these people think they were voting in a reality TV show? Did they think it was similar to voting someone out of the Big Brother house?

It's pretty obvious that England and Wales will leave the EU. What happens to Scotland and Northern Ireland is another question all together.

I know very well what I voted for... However we've yet to start procedures to leave the EU - that is the point I am making

 

[Geezertronic]

There are people on the news and on social media who voted out and are now regretting it. Did these people think they were voting in a reality TV show? Did they think it was similar to voting someone out of the Big Brother house?

They are probably the same people who regretted voting Conservative in 2010 and then regretted voting Conservative last year too

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

They are probably the same people who regretted voting Conservative in 2010 and then regretted voting Conservative last year too

Not me - I voted for them in the last two GE's and I don't regret it at all

 

[LexyBoy]

If the government were to overrule the result it would cause a bit of a constitutional crisis (as the basis for referenda isn't formally legislated IIRC) as well as being political suicide and leading to an immediate general election in which a pro-leave party (be that the Tories or the result of their split) would win.

Plus, Junker Schultz et al have made it clear that they can't wait to be rid of us and won't accept the government fannying about.

 

[EM2]

I know very well what I voted for... However we've yet to start procedures to leave the EU - that is the point I am making

Only because Cameron decided to quit. As soon as Article 50 is activated the clock starts, and he could have done that this morning, if he'd wanted to.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Only because Cameron decided to quit. As soon as Article 50 is activated the clock starts, and he could have done that this morning, if he'd wanted to.

I thought his plan was to tell them in four days time at the meeting

 

[43074]

That was a referendum - it was not legally binding

It would be political suicide if the government didn't act on it though. The fact that David Cameron has resigned essentially opens the door to us leaving, because it will be a future PM who will activate Article 50.

 

[northwichcat]

Plus, Junker Schultz et al have made it clear that they can't wait to be rid of us and won't accept the government fannying about.

Really? What I heard was that they didn't want anyone to leave but said if the UK wants to go then they need to get on with it and need to beware there's no easy way back once they've gone.

 

[EM2]

I thought his plan was to tell them in four days time at the meeting

What he said was that he would go to the European Council next week to'explain the decision the British people have taken' and has said it should be up to the next prime minister to decide when to activate Article 50.

 

[Garmoran]

Quite. And that's fine - it's exactly the same way europe runs.

What's laughable is that leave campaign go on about democracy and unelected government in europe, but then deliver exactly the same in the UK.

Exactly the same? I know a minority of other EU countries also have hereditary heads of state, but I didn't realise that there were any others that also had second chambers made up of individuals who are either hereditary or appointed for life. Criticising the European Commission as undemocratic while accepting the House of Lords seems most perverse.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

What he said was that he would go to the European Council next week to'explain the decision the British people have taken' and has said it should be up to the next prime minister to decide when to activate Article 50.

Ah, he has changed his position then... Not unsurprising

 

[Howardh]

If the government were to overrule the result it would cause a bit of a constitutional crisis (as the basis for referenda isn't formally legislated IIRC) as well as being political suicide and leading to an immediate general election in which a pro-leave party (be that the Tories or the result of their split) would win.

Plus, Junker Schultz et al have made it clear that they can't wait to be rid of us and won't accept the government fannying about.

It would be political suicide if the government didn't act on it though. The fact that David Cameron has resigned essentially opens the door to us leaving, because it will be a future PM who will activate Article 50.

The BBC's reporter has just dropped in the phrase "General Election" meaning in Autumn when the PM's gone; in which case it's possible for the country to elect pro-EU candidates from any party whose mandate would be to keep the UK in the EU. It would be, if you like, a second and final chance for remain, and a legitimate one too under our laws/rules/protocol.

Which is why it's wise (from a remain point of view) to hold back Article 50 until after then, and in the meantime the electorate gets a clearer view of what's in store outside the EU now we are in the clear light. No lies, fibs or owt now, this is reality.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

The BBC's reporter has just dropped in the phrase "General Election" meaning in Autumn when the PM's gone; in which case it's possible for the country to elect pro-EU candidates from any party whose mandate would be to keep the UK in the EU. It would be, if you like, a second and final chance for remain, and a legitimate one too under our laws/rules/protocol.

Which is why it's wise (from a remain point of view) to hold back Article 50 until after then, and in the meantime the electorate gets a clearer view of what's in store outside the EU now we are in the clear light. No lies, fibs or owt now, this is reality.

If there is a GE so soon after last year, and pro-europe people get in, will we then get the concessions Cameron argued for?

 

[Howardh]

Really? What I heard was that they didn't want anyone to leave but said if the UK wants to go then they need to get on with it and need to beware there's no easy way back once they've gone.

Which is an improvement on "no way back". Think the EU will now be looking into their purse and asking if THEY can afford the UK to leave, which is at least one good thing from the result.

 

[EM2]

Ah, he has changed his position then... Not unsurprising

No, that was in his statement this morning. He has however changed his position from before the vote, when he said he wouldn't resign and would activate Article 50 immediately...

 

[TheKnightWho]

If there is a GE so soon after last year, and pro-europe people get in, will we then get the concessions Cameron argued for?

I suspect it would be the mandate needed to firmly commit to the EEA. Currently there is no forward plan, and many from working class backgrounds will be angry if immigration does not fall so would not be satisfied with the EEA either.

 

[Howardh]

If there is a GE so soon after last year, and pro-europe people get in, will we then get the concessions Cameron argued for?

Well, I think the EU have said not, but A50 hasn't yet been started so as it stands, if we stay in it should be - no change, but at least we can argue that if we don't get those concessions we have the mandate to leave.

So if the EU wants us, there we go. If the EU doesn't...

 

[miami]

If there is a GE so soon after last year, and pro-europe people get in, will we then get the concessions Cameron argued for?

Doesn't matter, those concessions were irrelevant, burnt a lot of political capital for no gain

If the UK doesn't Article 50 (due to mass rioting and popular demand over summer leading to another referendum and a libdem landslide in an election), can the rest of the EU kick us out?

 

[miami]

I suspect it would be the mandate needed to firmly commit to the EEA. Currently there is no forward plan, and many from working class backgrounds will be angry if immigration does not fall so would not be satisfied with the EEA either.

They'll be angry regardless.

 

[TheKnightWho]

They'll be angry regardless.

They will, but I am not convinced that the majority in this country want to sever all links with the EU, with the consequences of that.

 

[Howardh]

I suspect it would be the mandate needed to firmly commit to the EEA. Currently there is no forward plan, and many from working class backgrounds will be angry if immigration does not fall so would not be satisfied with the EEA either.

Out of EU/EEA immigration is going to rise anyway, so they ain't gonna get what they wished for.
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They will, but I am not convinced that the majority in this country want to sever all links with the EU, with the consequences of that.

That's the difficulty, there's no middle ground unless we are in the EEA - but isn't there a cost and no vote?