EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Senex]

One is that we need to work out what the hell we want.

Two is that it is manifestly in the UK's interests to be part of the EU and the single market and he wants to preserve that for as long as possible.

What better demonstration of the moronic nature of the UK's decision?

And we're now seeing very clearly just how much Brexit lacked any clear plans for the future.

 

[Cletus]

Moody's downgraded the United Kingdom's long term outlook from stable to negative overnight.

This should come as a surprise to nobody. (except people who decided they'd had enough of experts like nobel prize winning economists and the Governor of the Bank of England...)

Always wondered if Moody's are the only company who make these statements? Or are there "alternatives available" as the saying goes?

 

[VauxhallandI]

Always wondered if Moody's are the only company who make these statements? Or are there "alternatives available" as the saying goes?

There are three Ratings Agencies used.

Moody's
Standard and Poors
Fitch

 

[dgl]

Always wondered if Moody's are the only company who make these statements? Or are there "alternatives available" as the saying goes?

There is but they will probably say the same thing.

Unfortunately we do need a another referendum, esp. As leaves arguments have been pretty much confirmed as all lies and that fact that some people only voted leave to stick it to the man but actually wanted to remain.

Sticking it to the man when the result is to ruin Britain is not a good idea.

 

[AM9]

I agree. What was BAE's justification for solely focussing on defence aviation when they sold the stake back in 2011 or 2012?

Because since the mid-noughties, BAE SYSTEMS has increasingly focussed on the US defence market which whilst requiring certain organisational compliances, gives a diverse company like them access to a big spending more consistent customer. BAE SYSTEMS now has more sales to the US DoD than the UK MOD.
Forget any of the smaller sites in the UK, when the current Typhoon and Residual Tornado work recedes, the Warton operation could well be scaled down as the company reduces its UK industrial profile. Brexit could well accelerate that trend.

 

[Howardh]

A lot of the press have been commenting on how "down" Boris looks. Future PM taking us into a shiny new world and rubbing our noses in it?
Looks more like a bloke that's had a good New Year's Eve and woke up to remember he promised to go for a swim in the sea.
They're already back-tracking on the NHS cash boost, immigration and so on (which most of us knew was a lie anyway) not to mention the almost certain Scexit and the possible Nexit. And it's all on his shoulders now. Every dip in the pound, every negative employment stat, every loss on the stock exchange...even if it's now't to do with Europe.
Then he's got to negotiate with countries that want to play it hard to stop others from wanting to leave.
Should have thought of all that last month, Boris lad.

 

[krus_aragon]

In hindsight, Brexit is good because it will encourage Scotland to leave. Therefore, if Scotland does go its own way, then the UK's average life expectancy will increase by 30 years and average annual rainfall will decrease by 11 litres...

If you can get Wales to leave as well, the average annual rainfall will drop so much, you'll be able to declare perpetual hosepipe bans!

 

[AM9]

If you can get Wales to leave as well, the average annual rainfall will drop so much, you'll be able to declare perpetual hosepipe bans!

Then there will just be the Englanders (in little England).

 

[Butts]

If you can get Wales to leave as well, the average annual rainfall will drop so much, you'll be able to declare perpetual hosepipe bans!

Anyone would think it never rains in England - which I'm sure a lot of contributors on here can contradict.

Cymru has taken the UKIP shilling , Owen Glendower must be turning in his grave - if they ever found out where he disappeared to

 

[47513 Severn]

I remain convinced Boris never expected a leave result. One way or another he will be the next Conservative leader and I believe his plan was to claw back the Tory support that has switched to UKIP over the last few years by being the man that was 'on their side' during the referendum. That way we would have had a Tory government for many years to come.

Things haven't gone to plan though. There will be a lot of pain associated with the Brexit process and the PM at the time will be in a very shaky position. There is a fantastic opportunity here for Labour, IF they can get their act together quickly.

 

[Antman]

yes of course. But the UK leaving the EU is a long term act of economic and political self harm and the full consequences will take decades to work out.

The critical thing now is to limit the damage - we must join the EEA and preserve freedom of trade and freedom of movement, whatever the cost.
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All good points, but sadly it's now too late.
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I see Boris is in no hurry to leave the EU. Why? Two reasons:

One is that we need to work out what the hell we want.

Two is that it is manifestly in the UK's interests to be part of the EU and the single market and he wants to preserve that for as long as possible.

What better demonstration of the moronic nature of the UK's decision?

There's nothing moronic about it at all, shame you can't see comprehend anything than your own opinion:roll:
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And we're now seeing very clearly just how much Brexit lacked any clear plans for the future.

Empty comments like this are not going to change anything:roll:

 

[jon0844]

I also notice that Nigel Farage is already starting to back track on his pre referendum promises and I'm curious to know what people who voted Brexit think of that.

Probably won't care as it wasn't about money to them. We're seeing people openly proud that we're going to 'kick them out' and one who said if they don't leave by themselves, we'll have to 'do something about it'.

Given people have said they don't want people from Africa, Syria and Iraq coming here, how could it have been about the EU? And the ones who say it's about muslims. How the f**k was the EU referendum about them?

So many protest votes from clueless people who didn't have a clue what they were doing, as shown by Google data that reveals a MASSIVE surge in searches along the likes of 'what is the EU', 'who is in the EU', 'what happens if we leave the EU'. AFTER the results were announced.

Nigel and co can drop all the economic stuff. To continue with that means the Tories can pick a new leader and carry on with negotiations.

What he needs to do now is keep stirring up the hatred, so we end up with a general election and people vote in a far right party.

Fortunately, I think that with an element of remorse from leave voters, and others well ashamed of what we've become, it wouldn't work. At least I pray it wouldn't. It's barely a 100 years since the last person managed to get people all worked up, and I hope the far right parties in Europe don't get their way either.

 

[RichmondCommu]

The pound has steadied at the same rate or fractionally higher than it was in February.

Only because the Bank of England has taken steps to support it. Sooner or later it will have to raise interest rates.

Nigel farage's promises- the same man that isn't elected to parliament and has no mandate to action everything he says? Surely nobody believed his promises as it doesn't take much thinking to know he can't action them.

In that case why did he make promises in the first place? He knew that he would be able to convince some people to vote for a Brexit by making those promises.

 

[jon0844]

The pound has steadied at the same rate or fractionally higher than it was in February.

Nigel farage's promises- the same man that isn't elected to parliament and has no mandate to action everything he says? Surely nobody believed his promises as it doesn't take much thinking to know he can't action them.

He sounded rather bitter for being sidelined and seemed almost happy to reveal the £350m thing as being rubbish, and the NHS couldn't be guaranteed the money.

Perhaps he's beginning to realise that on the face of it now, he's finished. If he can't convince the public to kick out the Government and put him 'in charge' he'll disappear now his work is technically done.

Boris and others MIGHT have some plan to give him a lifeline, or maybe not. But they are now free to do their own thing and see Nigel as a pawn in a very well played game.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Empty comments like this are not going to change anything:roll:

Well its true; the Government has no idea what to do next and the country has a very uncertain future. In a nut shell we're in trouble.

 

[jon0844]

Should have thought of all that last month, Boris lad.

He wanted power and will likely get it. Like many voters, he perhaps forgot to think it through before going ahead.

We all make hasty decisions in life we regret. It's just that many of them don't affect a whole country!

 

[RichmondCommu]

We all make hasty decisions in life we regret. It's just that many of them don't affect a whole country!

Well exactly. I'm afraid it's too late now though Jon

 

[Antman]

Well its true; the Government has no idea what to do next and the country has a very uncertain future. In a nut shell we're in trouble.

We'll see, we'd have been in even more trouble if we had remained in the EU.

Oh and it seems a similar referendum could be on the agenda in France and possibly elsewhere, presumably you think they don't know what they're doing either?

 

[ianhr]

I remain convinced Boris never expected a leave result. One way or another he will be the next Conservative leader and I believe his plan was to claw back the Tory support that has switched to UKIP over the last few years by being the man that was 'on their side' during the referendum. That way we would have had a Tory government for many years to come.

Things haven't gone to plan though. There will be a lot of pain associated with the Brexit process and the PM at the time will be in a very shaky position. There is a fantastic opportunity here for Labour, IF they can get their act together quickly.

A majority of even Tory MPs as well as most Labour and all the SNP are pro Remain. They will make his life a misery and soon bring him down. His destructive political career will be over and as far as I'm concerned he deserves all he gets, although of course he will be left to enjoy his considerable wealth.

There will be very little time for Labour to re engage with their 'lost' former supporters and the danger is that they will go on looking for someone/something to blame and vote in large enough numbers for UKIP, in those areas that most strongly voted for Brexit, that the next Government will be a right wing Tory/UKIP coalition.

We now have to rely on the skills of the professional civil servants, in the Foreign Office, Diplomatic Service etc. to get the best possible outcome from the negotiations. Unfortunately they do not have many cards to play and we have alienated most of the people they have to talk to.
The Government of Scotland may try to reach it's own settlement with the EU and when this fails they will call another referendum in Scotland and we know what the result will be this time.

 

[Antman]

He wanted power and will likely get it. Like many voters, he perhaps forgot to think it through before going ahead.

We all make hasty decisions in life we regret. It's just that many of them don't affect a whole country!

But not when we've had months to ponder the decision!

 

[krus_aragon]

Cymru has taken the UKIP shilling , Owen Glendower must be turning in his grave - if they ever found out where he disappeared to

Nah, Glyndŵr and Arthur are just waiting for the right moment to start a comeback tour... :P

 

[jon0844]

We'll see, we'd have been in even more trouble if we had remained in the EU.

Oh and it seems a similar referendum could be on the agenda in France and possibly elsewhere, presumably you think they don't know what they're doing either?

A far right group wanting it. I think I know exactly what they want too. It will be about immigration first and foremost.

For the record, I am concerned about the problems we've seen since allowing in millions of refugees. Not the genuine ones, but we know that perhaps more than half AREN'T genuine. They have fake ID, or no ID, and lie about their age (even in their 30s) to get access to young children - and SOME then go on to commit rape and even murder (many in Sweden last year).

We saw what happened in Cologne and has happened elsewhere, with Germans even giving advice to women on not attracting too much attention to themselves.

This is real. It got so bad some sections of the media couldn't pretend it wasn't happening, but then come the referendum everyone shut up because it was clear that this was going to become a major issue that convinced people it was time to go.

That's the same thinking in Sweden, Denmark, France, Holland and even in Germany.. so the EU is going to suffer. In many ways we can thank Angela Merkal for creating this mess.

BUT, a big problem as this is, it's NOT enough to justify leaving the EU for all the benefits we get. Immigration issues can be dealt with, and even outside the EU, we as a nation that has a tradition of helping people will still decide to let them in on humanitarian grounds. And we'll likely still let in people who shouldn't be let in.

The EU has its flaws, but my goodness, how can we think going it alone fixes them. It just makes us have to work out all the same problems on our own.

 

[RichmondCommu]

We'll see, we'd have been in even more trouble if we had remained in the EU.

We'll see? What kind of policy / strategy is "we'll see"? That's what you say when your four year old wants to do something that you'd rather not do.

So what we're saying is that the country is awash with uncertainty and the only answer is "we'll see". No wonder the financial markets are at rock bottom when the Government policy is "we'll see".

This is a shambles and it will only get worse as people start to lose their jobs.

 

[jon0844]

But not when we've had months to ponder the decision!

That man who said he did it because of the muslims probably had his mind up all his life. Not sure he listened to anything from either side.

Irrespective of the result (I do think we'll manage to carry on somehow), we've discovered just how many people have really firm views on foreigners. Much worse than we perhaps imagined, thinking we had becoming quite tolerant as a society.

In fact, all we'd done is ignored the people with these views and tried to keep them under the radar, hoping they'd go away. People who let their anger build up to a point where all common sense went out of the window.

Perhaps I don't fully appreciate the situation where people have seen everyone around them change colour and talk another language. It's a shock to them. One that many other people, especially in big cities, have had years to get used to it.

Who in London is afraid of foreigners? But a small rural village? It's like turning the clock back many years.

Perhaps we should have had a referendum about immigration, as it seems the real problem is not with EU workers coming here at all.

 

[47513 Severn]

He wanted power and will likely get it. Like many voters, he perhaps forgot to think it through before going ahead.

We all make hasty decisions in life we regret. It's just that many of them don't affect a whole country!

Indeed, half the country are now disappointed as the result wasn't what they wanted and the other half will be disappointed over the next two years when absolutely nothing changes (certainly not for the better anyway).

He wanted to be the next Winston Churchill, I suspect he will end up being the next Gordon Brown or possibly even Michael Portillo (remember when he was the next big thing, that didn't exactly go to plan either!)

 

[RichmondCommu]

But not when we've had months to ponder the decision!

Well they've had months to do all that "pondering" and what exactly have they come up with; "we'll see". And you really think that will reassure investors?

 

[northwichcat]

So Vote Leave are not only admitting diverting £350m to the NHS was misleading, they are also saying there will be no target to reduce immigration but they will have greater control over which people come in. So basically the two main points which will have attracted a number of people to Vote Leave were both lies.

 

[ianhr]

That man who said he did it because of the muslims probably had his mind up all his life. Not sure he listened to anything from either side.

Irrespective of the result (I do think we'll manage to carry on somehow), we've discovered just how many people have really firm views on foreigners. Much worse than we perhaps imagined, thinking we had becoming quite tolerant as a society.

In fact, all we'd done is ignored the people with these views and tried to keep them under the radar, hoping they'd go away. People who let their anger build up to a point where all common sense went out of the window.

Perhaps I don't fully appreciate the situation where people have seen everyone around them change colour and talk another language. It's a shock to them. One that many other people, especially in big cities, have had years to get used to it.

Who in London is afraid of foreigners? But a small rural village? It's like turning the clock back many years.

Perhaps we should have had a referendum about immigration, as it seems the real problem is not with EU workers coming here at all.

A referendum is a very blunt political instrument with which to approach complex problems. We do not have a politically sophisticated electorate, outside of clusters of well educated people in big cities, and most people do not have the time or inclination to confront complexity. This is why most astute politicians do all they can to avoid calling referenda,

 

[Howardh]

The Government of Scotland may try to reach it's own settlement with the EU and when this fails they will call another referendum in Scotland and we know what the result will be this time.

Is it technically possible for Scotland to stay in both the UK and EU? There's no precedent as far as I can see; all I can think of is places like the Channel Islands/Gibraltar have special arrangements, but they are aligned to a country that is/was in.

If much of Scotland's government is devolved, especially fiscally, what would be the physical problems of Scotland remaining in the EU but still in the UK?

 

[RichmondCommu]

So Vote Leave are not only admitting diverting £350m to the NHS was misleading, they are also saying there will be no target to reduceimmigration but they will have greater control over which people come in. So basically the two main points which will have attracted a number of people to Vote Leave were both lies.

Well exactly. And they're now in the process of screwing over the economy. This is a right royal mess and it's too late to change anything.