EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Dave1987]

Heseltine another one of the many Remain cry babies has just said the referendum result should be ignored, very democratic.

Might I suggest Vote Leave should get on with the process of enacting Article 50? Still keep hearing that there is "no rush" from a group that was desperate to get out of the EU before Thursday.

 

[Railops]

Might I suggest Vote Leave should get on with the process of enacting Article 50? Still keep hearing that there is "no rush" from a group that was desperate to get out of the EU before Thursday.

Tell them not me.

 

[EM2]

Might I suggest Vote Leave should get on with the process of enacting Article 50? Still keep hearing that there is "no rush" from a group that was desperate to get out of the EU before Thursday.

They can't. It has to come from the government of the member state that wishes to leave. And, as current government policy is to remain, that's not going to happen.
Cameron has played a clever game here, he's basically taken the pin out of the grenade, and thrown it at Boris.
Boris now desperately has his thumb on the plunger, and is praying that he can work out a way to stop it going off.

 

[anme]

Tell them not me.

When do you think they should invoke article 50?

 

[deltic]

When do you think they should invoke article 50?

Never -

 

[Railops]

Sturgeon is delusional, today she has said she wants Scotland to seamlessly stay in the EU which won't happen.
Open border with England which is even more stupid, and keep the pound when the EU will demand the Euro or no entry when Scotland gets back in in 10-20 years time.

Why would England keep an open border with a foreign country and on what basis would they share our currency.
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When do you think they should invoke article 50?

Tomorrow if it was my choice.

 

[anme]

Wow. Leave voters - have you seen this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5jTRoySFfo

The leave campaigner Daniel Hannan says that the UK will continue to respect free movement after leaving the EU, and that net migration will probably not fall. Leavers - what do you think of this? You must be spitting blood! Those foreigners will still be coming! (don't believe the nonsense about work contracts - almost everyone arriving under free movement rights is coming to take up a confirmed job, or is attached to someone who is)

Actually, what he's promoting is remaining in the EEA. I fully agree with him that we MUST now do this. However, he also says that being in the EEA is more democratic than being in the EU. That's an utterly moronic statement and I don't believe for one second that he actually thinks this. Is it more democratic that rules are imposed on us by others (EEA) or that our elected representatives (national governments, MEPs) make the rules (EU)?

Anyway, this will be the next fight. Choose your side! BTW, this time the remainers (EEA) are currently favourites to win, as the leavers (like Hannan) are joining us. Fingers crossed.
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Tomorrow if it was my choice.

OK good. Why do you think that won't happen?

 

[GarethJohn]

It's the last 20 years of Government's that is to blame for Brexit in particular the Blair years.
It's the Ex-Labour voters that voted Brexit, most Tories were going too anyway.

Labour never addressed the housing shortages and have done nothing for it's heartlands.
Did they use the early success of the Economy prior to the Credit Crunch to fund building projects in these area's?
Instead of encouraging School leavers to get into Construction and learn a trade. They told us it is better to go to Uni, get into debt and do a degree in anything. Television study degrees are far better than BTEC's in Building, Plumbing etc.''Yeah right''.
Why weren't they encouraging potential Construction workers with guaranteed employment while building new social housing & School?
Why did they introduce tuition fees?
Couldn't they given have exceptions for Teachers, Nurses & Dentists.
Theses trades have had to filled by Eastern EU migration fuelling resentment in those areas.

They are out of work and struggling to get a house, they should have had Labour to turn to help. When areas loose big industries the Unions tend to go with it. Few Supermarkets that moved in bother with Unions.
The Valleys & The North knew they couldn't trust the Tories to do much for them.
Who filled the void found only the BNP & UKIP spoke to them at their level and not look down it's nose and listened, who in return would promise them anything and used visible immigration issues to back it up.

If it's voters in the heartlands had a job and somewhere to live they wouldn't give a damn about immigrants joining them. This issue cost EU membership alone more than anything.

What annoys me now is the Blairites are blaming Corbyn when it was their policies that alienated it's heartlands and led to Brexit.
If Labour's got a future it needs to stick with Corbyn and become a genuine supporter of the lower classes and stop pandering to Tory floating voters by being like the Tories.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Good lord no..............if it's on social media then it must be true, mustn't it?:roll:

Maybe they should stick it on the side of a Bus then maybe you'll believe it. :roll::roll::roll:
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Sturgeon is delusional, today she has said she wants Scotland to seamlessly stay in the EU which won't happen.
Open border with England which is even more stupid, and keep the pound when the EU will demand the Euro or no entry when Scotland gets back in in 10-20 years time.

Why would England keep an open border with a foreign country and on what basis would they share our currency.
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Tomorrow if it was my choice.

It's strange how you know the future for Scotland but can't state what the future for Brexit UK is.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Heseltine another one of the many Remain cry babies has just said the referendum result should be ignored, very democratic.

It's like you think we lost the football or something. Your contributions seem to be increasingly gloating, without saying anything interesting, informative or knowledgeable.

 

[anme]

Tomorrow if it was my choice.

I've seen it proposed that the EU simply throws Britain out if article 50 isn't invoked in a reasonable period of time. They will respect our democratic choice even if Prime Minister Boris won't.

Good idea? Would you support this? If not, why not?

 

[Dave1987]

Yet more reports of racist incidents with a Sky reporter witnessing some......

 

[EM2]

I've seen it proposed that the EU simply throws Britain out if article 50 isn't invoked in a reasonable period of time. They will respect our democratic choice even if Prime Minister Boris won't.

Good idea? Would you support this? If not, why not?

There is no mechanism for them to do this. The ONLY way a member state can leave the EU is by notifying the EU via Article 50.
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Good lord no..............if it's on social media then it must be true, mustn't it?:roll:

Would you believe video evidence?
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...uk_576fe161e4b08d2c56396075?745i5vqfvfs35l8fr

 

[dosxuk]

Why would England keep an open border with a foreign country

You mean like the Republic of Ireland?

 

[450.emu]

Looks like things have taken an interesting turn..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Labour-MP-calls-Commons-overturn-result.html

Apparently the referendum is not legally binding. It seems to be a fight between Baby Boomers and the younger generation who feel 'screwed over' by the result. :roll:

Europe seem keen enough to kick us out. I just don't want that buffoon Johnson running the show.

 

[anme]

There is no mechanism for them to do this. The ONLY way a member state can leave the EU is by notifying the EU via Article 50.

That's not true.

The UK can unilaterally stop making payments to Brussels, start turning foreigners back at the borders, switch off internet links to the continent, stop planes landing, etc - the same way North Korea stopped complying with the nuclear non-proliferation treaty which it had previously signed. I'm not saying that's a good idea, but it's possible. There are provisions in the EU treaties to dismiss a member in certain circumstances, which would no doubt then happen.

It would be more difficult for the EU to throw out a member that continued to comply with membership conditions, but it could be done by treaty change. The UK would then face the prospect of vetoing a treaty change forcing them to follow the democratic decision of their people. To be honest, if it drags on this long I actually expect that by another referendum, or the manifesto commitment of an elected government, the UK would have reversed its decision to leave.

 

[Howardh]

Looks like things have taken an interesting turn..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Labour-MP-calls-Commons-overturn-result.html

Apparently the referendum is not legally binding. It seems to be a fight between Baby Boomers and the younger generation who feel 'screwed over' by the result. :roll:

Europe seem keen enough to kick us out. I just don't want that buffoon Johnson running the show.

Unfortunately, the petition's been rubbished as a lot of the signees are fake; unfortunately (part II) the Tories will probably elect Boris - out of spite I hope - so he can run Brexit, and it's all on his head. A spectacular come-down from an EU-supporting politician who it's said only had eyes on the Premiership and was willing to sacrifice the country's EU status and all that goes with it for his ends.
He must have wanted a remain win - a close result but a win - so he could weaken Cameron and force an early resignation.
Unfortunately, Cameron got their first.
So, Brexiters, a pro-EU man is stepping in to do the dirty work for you even though he probably doesn't want to do it, it wasn't the plan. Enjoy.

 

[anme]

Sturgeon is delusional, today she has said she wants Scotland to seamlessly stay in the EU which won't happen.
Open border with England which is even more stupid, and keep the pound when the EU will demand the Euro or no entry when Scotland gets back in in 10-20 years time.

Actually the Scottish situation is interesting but sadly your analysis misses much of the subtly of the situation. Might be time for some evening classes in constitutional law, or at least a quick scan of Wikipedia.

If the UK remains part of the EEA with free movement of goods and people, as many leave campaigners now seem to be in favour of, then it wouldn't be a big problem for Scotland to join the EU and maintain an open border with England. The same for Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. It would mean that Scotland had influence over England and Wales' laws via the EU and the single market, but E&W had given up that privilege on Scotland and the rest of the EU by leaving the EU. But that's E&W's fault and they must take responsibility for their idiocy.

This, by the way, is the only sane approach now and is what Boris must now sell to the Tory party. He knows that and it's why he looks so glum.

If the UK decided to really go it alone, then things would be more difficult for Scotland and an enforced border would be the likely result if they did declare independence, with terms of trade being those between E&W and the EU.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Scotland need not actually get independence. The Kingdom of the Netherlands contains the four constituent countries of the Netherlands, Aruba, Curaçao and Sint Maarten. Only the first one is actually in the EU.

 

[Antman]

Maybe they should stick it on the side of a Bus then maybe you'll believe it. :roll::roll::roll:
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.

Would this be the same bus that didn't actually say that the £350m would be spent on the NHS? Read what it actually says and not what you want it to say!
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Yet more reports of racist incidents with a Sky reporter witnessing some......

Oh gosh, and what it's all the fault of those who voted leave?:roll:

 

[TheKnightWho]

Would this be the same bus that didn't actually say that the £350m would be spent on the NHS? Read what it actually says and not what you want it to say!

So a bus that suggests that £350m could be spent on the NHS, sparking large amounts of debate on the subject, had no effect on whether or not people voted Leave?

Sometimes I wonder what planet you people are living on, because it doesn't seem to be Earth.

 

[anme]

Oh gosh, and what it's all the fault of those who voted leave?:roll:

Does racism bother you at all?

BTW, still waiting for you to say what you think should happen next. EEA membership seems best, right, with free movement of goods and services preserved?

 

[TheKnightWho]

Oh gosh, and what it's all the fault of those who voted leave?:roll:

I'm sure all this stuff about making foreigners leave is coming from the Remain camp. :roll:

 

[me123]

Scotland need not actually get independence. The Kingdom of the Netherlands contains the four constituent countries of the Netherlands, Aruba, Curaçao and Sint Maarten. Only the first one is actually in the EU.

As true as that is, I don't think there is a situation where the "main bulk" of the country is not in the EU, but a constituent nation is. In the examples I'm aware of (France, Denmark, Netherlands), the overseas territories are not in the EU. But I don't think there's any country where the capital city is not in the EU, but an overseas territory is. So it would be a different scenario.

In reality, I think that given the political will of the SNP, the political opinion of the Scottish people (59% support independence in a poll released today - a new high), the abhorrent rhetoric going from many corners in England, and the unpalatable masquerade that we'll be subjected to over the next few years, I would argue that independence is a much more likely outcome for Scotland than remaining in the EU as part of the UK. As I've alluded to, I would be surprised if that would not include adoption of the €uro. Joining Schengen may well depend on the situation in Ireland. To be honest, I'd be open to both now.

 

[EM2]

Would this be the same bus that didn't actually say that the £350m would be spent on the NHS? Read what it actually says and not what you want it to say!

Those exact words might not have been on the bus, but what about the posters?

 

[GatwickDepress]

Would this be the same bus that didn't actually say that the £350m would be spent on the NHS? Read what it actually says and not what you want it to say!

"We send the EU £350 million a week.
Let's fund our NHS instead. Vote Leave."

How can you not take that as £350 million to be spent on the NHS?

 

[TheKnightWho]

As true as that is, I don't think there is a situation where the "main bulk" of the country is not in the EU, but a constituent nation is. In the examples I'm aware of (France, Denmark, Netherlands), the overseas territories are not in the EU. But I don't think there's any country where the capital city is not in the EU, but an overseas territory is. So it would be a different scenario.

In reality, I think that given the political will of the SNP, the political opinion of the Scottish people (59% support independence in a poll released today - a new high), the abhorrent rhetoric going from many corners in England, and the unpalatable masquerade that we'll be subjected to over the next few years, I would argue that independence is a much more likely outcome for Scotland than remaining in the EU as part of the UK. As I've alluded to, I would be surprised if that would not include adoption of the €uro. Joining Schengen may well depend on the situation in Ireland. To be honest, I'd be open to both now.

That is true - I suppose I was using the Netherlands as an example because it's directly analogous with the constituent countries, rather than simply referring to overseas territories (which tend to have fewer rights).

I suspect you're right, though - although I'm surprised we haven't heard more from the Brexit Tories about Scotland possibly being allowed to stay. Perhaps because that would go down terribly with their core support base, who they all know seem to reject fact, reason and compromise over the European situation, as much as they won't admit it.

 

[bb21]

Those exact words might not have been on the bus, but what about the posters?

You've photoshopped that.

 

[Antman]

"We send the EU £350 million a week.
Let's fund our NHS instead. Vote Leave."

How can you not take that as £350 million to be spent on the NHS?

Yes that's exactly what it says. I repeat, it doesn't actually say that the £350m will be spent on the NHS. How people interpret it is a matter for them.

 

[EM2]

You've photoshopped that.

Absolutely not, I swear.
It's from ITV's website:
http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2016-06-24/nathan-gill-i-dont-know-anything-about-350m-nhs-pledge/