Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[Blindtraveler]

If you don't mind me asking, What concessions do you get in England Bt?

My Blindies consession takes me to Berwick on the East side and, infinatly more useful Carlisle on the West, valid on all TOCs and cross border bus and coach services.

From then on its just my DSB Railcard to offer all reductions applicable. I tend to find in London that they assume your local and a freedom pass holder and more than happy to treat you as such, sometimes to such an extent you have to persuade them to let you tap in and out.

Happy to answer questions via PM.

 

[poshfan]

Fort William sleeper keeps stopping. We are sitting just before Spean Bridge at the moment. Seems the 73's are struggling.

 

[38Cto15E]

showing on realtimetrains as 76 minutes late at Crianlarich.

 

[92002]

Read elsewhere that a class 92 worked the northbound lowland sleeper throughout last night.

Modified 92014 was the machine and safely arrived on time.

 

[TimboM]

Modified 92014 was the machine and safely arrived on time.

A Class 92 (I'm assuming 92014) was on the Southbound Lowland tonight - arrived 33E at Euston. Modifications seem to be doing the trick so far (touch wood).

 

[Blindtraveler]

Good to hear. Shame they couldnt have been done to start with

 

[Hadders]

showing on realtimetrains as 76 minutes late at Crianlarich.

Arrived just 10 minutes late at Euston in the end.

 

[adrock1976]

I've not been able to make seat reservations for the internal Scottish portions that run as "day" services since Sevco took over.

That said you can still board the FTW portion without a reservation and stand if required.



Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

I like the typo whether intended or not!

For those who are unaware, Sevco were formed by Charles Green in 2012 after the original Glasgow Rangers FC went into liquidation when they got caught operating a tax dodging scheme/scam. Sevco then became Sevco Scotland, then The Rangers, now presently known as Rangers International Football Club.

Back on topic, with all the technology in the world, it does seem crazy that a seat cannot be reserved on the daytime leg of the journey, in contrast to starting or ending in London.

Furthermore, the last few occasions I've used the Sleeper website, I have found it to be buggy with certain aspects, such as being unable to save a payment card's details in the account settings.

 

[sduob]

Are there now base fares for tickets? I was looking at a return from London to Fort William over a weekend (up Friday, down Sunday) and every date had a price of £79 (railcard, twin) or £115 (railcard first - this seems to have replaced solo supplement?) - I don't remember this being the case last year...?

 

[gray1404]

Yes, that's exactly what's happening. There aren't enough guards available to cover all of the sections north of Edinburgh on strike days so they run the affected trains ECS to keep them in position, and the crew and passengers bounce alongside in a fleet of coaches.

Not at all satisfactory, but I suppose they're doing everything they can to keep the trains running.

Wouldn't the crew just stay on board an ECS movement if needed to keep them in position.
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Also, can you get a discount on sleeper fares and/or the sleeper supplement if you are using a Disabled Person's Railcard?

 

[Blindtraveler]

Yes to tickets with DSB, dont think the suplement quallifies

 

[jopsuk]

Wouldn't the crew just stay on board an ECS movement if needed to keep them in position.

I'd have though staff that are not the guard or driver would not be allowed to travel on an ECS without Guard

 

[XDM]

I'd have though staff that are not the guard or driver would not be allowed to travel on an ECS without Guard

Post Office sorting trains used to be DOO with full complement of posties aboard.

 

[najaB]

Post Office sorting trains used to be DOO with full complement of posties aboard.

But surely that was on stock which was intended to operate DOO?

 

[gray1404]

Yes to tickets with DSB, dont think the suplement quallifies

So on the ticket element yes, DBS discount applied. Is it still 1/3rd off? But the supplement element there is no discount.

 

[route:oxford]

I like the typo whether intended or not!

For those who are unaware, Sevco were formed by Charles Green in 2012 after the original Glasgow Rangers FC went into liquidation when they got caught operating a tax dodging scheme/scam. Sevco then became Sevco Scotland, then The Rangers, now presently known as Rangers International Football Club.

The word "Sevco" is considered so filthy it's a banned word in the comments section of many Scottish Newspapers. Indeed, the similar sounding word "Serco" is also forbidden in the Capital's papers.

 

[Gonzoiku]

Arrived just 10 minutes late at Euston in the end.

But the same can't be said for the reverse working

Friday's down Highlander was announced on the PIS at Euston as the 2115 for Perth, whence (according to the CS website earlier in the week) replacement road transport would convey passengers to destinations. CS website on the day had changed that to Edinburgh, and on boarding, Steward mentioned that we would in fact be terminating at Edinburgh, breakfast bag for all with road transport onwards. But who could guess the reality that was to dawn, at dawn?

Woken at 0315 for arrival at Edinburgh at 0355. Breakfast bags handed out, with the news that the coaches were ready and waiting .... at Perth. Taxis were to be arranged instead, probably!

Passengers with commitments (hospital appointment, wedding, business meting in Thurso etc) were despatched first, starting about 0500, but there were still passengers hanging around for a taxi northwards at 0600, having kicked heels for 2 hours, but having been ejected from the sleeper at around 0545 to permit the ECS workings to FW, Inverness and Aberdeen. The suggestion of stowing away was dismissed out of hand!

Nit the best out turn, save that arrival of one taxi in Inverness was spot on time at 0838! So no claim for delayed arrival?

GZ

 

[NamelessPoster]

But the same can't be said for the reverse working

Friday's down Highlander was announced on the PIS at Euston as the 2115 for Perth, whence (according to the CS website earlier in the week) replacement road transport would convey passengers to destinations. CS website on the day had changed that to Edinburgh, and on boarding, Steward mentioned that we would in fact be terminating at Edinburgh, breakfast bag for all with road transport onwards. But who could guess the reality that was to dawn, at dawn?

Woken at 0315 for arrival at Edinburgh at 0355. Breakfast bags handed out, with the news that the coaches were ready and waiting .... at Perth. Taxis were to be arranged instead, probably!

Passengers with commitments (hospital appointment, wedding, business meting in Thurso etc) were despatched first, starting about 0500, but there were still passengers hanging around for a taxi northwards at 0600, having kicked heels for 2 hours, but having been ejected from the sleeper at around 0545 to permit the ECS workings to FW, Inverness and Aberdeen. The suggestion of stowing away was dismissed out of hand!

Nit the best out turn, save that arrival of one taxi in Inverness was spot on time at 0838! So no claim for delayed arrival?

GZ

It is totally against all Health and Safety rules and a massive breach of them to allow passengers to travel on a train without a safety-critical trained staff member - a conductor. Even the crew such as hosts and team leaders cannot do this as the rolling stock is only travelling with the driver aboard. If that train crashed (heaven forbid) or even broke down there would be nobody aboard able and qualified to lead you to safety and the train company would be hit with fines running into hundreds of thousands of pounds.

 

[Flying Snail]

It is totally against all Health and Safety rules and a massive breach of them to allow passengers to travel on a train without a safety-critical trained staff member - a conductor. Even the crew such as hosts and team leaders cannot do this as the rolling stock is only travelling with the driver aboard. If that train crashed (heaven forbid) or even broke down there would be nobody aboard able and qualified to lead you to safety and the train company would be hit with fines running into hundreds of thousands of pounds.

The reasons for not allowing passengers on ECS workings are not an issue here, the poor treatment of paying passengers is.

Serco themselves touted the hotel on wheels, added luxury aspect as their new approach to CS but when disruption takes place we still get customers requirement of a nights sleep that they paid for ignored.

At times of unforeseen disruption this would be poor but forgivable, this is not. CS have had plenty of advance warning of this strike action to make better arrangements than the pre-dawn farce the previous poster was treated to.

A hotel guest would not be treated to a 3am wake-up, paper bag vice full english and being told they paid for an overnight in their location of choice and here you go, 4am, right location now bugger off.

 

[NamelessPoster]

Hotel rooms are not a solution for those that are using the sleeper for work purposes or using it to connect with flights and think of the logistical nightmare. The Highland services easily carries over 150 passengers so even if every single one were in no rush to get to their destination they would end up having to staying in several different hotels so who rounds them all up in the morning and assures they get to their destination? Not the crew as they have to be at their destination for the return journey that night. In any case more often than not it would still mean a bus journey as day services to Inverness/Aberdeen and Fort William have been affected by the strike. Also passengers who are not confident passengers would feel they had been abandoned short of their completed journey if left to their own devices in a hotel in a strange city with nobody the following day to help them complete their onward journey.

 

[Flying Snail]

I am not suggesting putting the passengers in a hotel, I was making a comparison between the manner CS considers is acceptable to treat it's guests to that of a hotel.

My suggestion in this situation (short of the solution a previous poster hinted at that Scotrail could have provided guards for CS services) would be that passengers be given the option of onward travel to get them as close to booked time as possible OR stay in berths until a reasonable hour at Edinburgh (7-8am) and then take day train/RRB/taxi or even scheduled coach to their destination. The choice of which option being up to the passenger.

 

[NamelessPoster]

I am not suggesting putting the passengers in a hotel, I was making a comparison between the manner CS considers is acceptable to treat it's guests to that of a hotel.

My suggestion in this situation (short of the solution a previous poster hinted at that Scotrail could have provided guards for CS services) would be that passengers be given the option of onward travel to get them as close to booked time as possible OR stay in berths until a reasonable hour at Edinburgh (7-8am) and then take day train/RRB/taxi or even scheduled coach to their destination. The choice of which option being up to the passenger.

That is not a viable alternative though as that rolling stock is required to be in its destination for return journey so cannot sit around in Edinburgh. Besides who polices the service? Who wakes passengers up at 8am? Not the crew as they have to be at their destination for return journey that night as well.
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As for ScotRail providing guards for the sleeper during a strike - they will look after their own services first to ensure minimum disruption on their services instead of worrying about another TOC before them.

 

[47271]

I see from RTT that they managed to run all three sections of the southbound Highlander normally last night, and yesterday was a Scotrail strike day.

 

[najaB]

I see from RTT that they managed to run all three sections of the southbound Highlander normally last night, and yesterday was a Scotrail strike day.

What time does a 'strike day' finish? Perhaps it didn't apply to the guards that signed on in the evening.

 

[NamelessPoster]

A number of GBRF staff trained as conductors have been passed out recently as fairly shortly ScotRail's contract to supply the conductors for the sleeper service runs out. When that happens those GBRF staff will take over as conductors on the sleeper service north of Edinburgh.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That is not a viable alternative though as that rolling stock is required to be in its destination for return journey so cannot sit around in Edinburgh. Besides who polices the service? Who wakes passengers up at 8am? Not the crew as they have to be at their destination for return journey that night as well.

I do see your point, but equally customer service has to be maintained even if it costs CS money, otherwise the reputation of the service will suffer. I agree that this would be unacceptable at a hotel, so it's unacceptable for one on wheels too.

As for ScotRail providing guards for the sleeper during a strike - they will look after their own services first to ensure minimum disruption on their services instead of worrying about another TOC before them.

This depends entirely on the contract. For instance, the contract for Northern (as was) to hire Class 156s to TPE made it very clear that this was to be done regardless of the effect of doing so on their own services.

 

[47271]

What time does a 'strike day' finish? Perhaps it didn't apply to the guards that signed on in the evening.

Maybe it didn't, but I know at least one person who had a right palaver because of there being no guard on a strike Sunday night a few weeks ago.

The answer to last night's success may however be contained in NamelessPoster's post - if GBRf are providing the guards from now on then they've cracked it.

Scant comfort to those already hoofed out of bed at 3am, but I suppose you have to credit CS with never giving up in adversity. They were the one operator who kept rolling during Lamington. Like the dispute here, it was rubbish and confused for a few weeks and then they got on top of it.

I've probably jinxed it for the next strike days now...

 

[Gonzoiku]

I am not suggesting putting the passengers in a hotel, I was making a comparison between the manner CS considers is acceptable to treat it's guests to that of a hotel.

My suggestion in this situation (short of the solution a previous poster hinted at that Scotrail could have provided guards for CS services) would be that passengers be given the option of onward travel to get them as close to booked time as possible OR stay in berths until a reasonable hour at Edinburgh (7-8am) and then take day train/RRB/taxi or even scheduled coach to their destination. The choice of which option being up to the passenger.

This passenger thinks you have understood the issue. As things turned out, I arrived on time, but at the cost of having spent two hours doing nothing at the crack of dawn (OK, it was daylight, Scottish summer days etc) and losing two hours sleep while doing so, and a further 2.7 hours while en route by taxi.

And, by the way, chatting a couple of weeks ago with the CS telesales office, I learned that some of their number have been reassigned - to training as stewards ... and guards.

GZ
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Scant comfort to those already hoofed out of bed at 3am, but I suppose you have to credit CS with never giving up in adversity.

I've probably jinxed it for the next strike days now...

Agreed - at least the passengers made it to destination.

GZ

 

[Blindtraveler]

A number of GBRF staff trained as conductors have been passed out recently as fairly shortly ScotRail's contract to supply the conductors for the sleeper service runs out. When that happens those GBRF staff will take over as conductors on the sleeper service north of Edinburgh.

I wondered when this would happen. From a disruption point of view good news, I wonder how things like acceptance of valid tickets, easments and the like will go though?

 

[miami]

Friend of mine was unable to take the sleeper last weekend due to being overbooked. Ended up taking a £25 megabus.

I assumed this was a typical NX coach or "rail replacement" bus service, i.e. horrendous seats. But no - it comes with lie flat beds!

With a strong chance of being kicked out of the sleeper at 4AM, it seems that the best option is to
1) fly (for Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, posssibly inverness)
2) get a day train (for Glasgow, Edinburgh
3) get the night bus (for Glasgow)
4) get the sleeper

The only time the sleeper would be top of the list is on trips to Fort William or Inverness, or if the weather is likely to delay the first plane to Edinburgh.