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Crisis-hit Scotrail network run to fund Dutch trains, firm admits

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overthewater

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Well Patrick Harvie can shut his face, the Scottish greens wanted them badly and even had a Special evening with just them in the Scottish Parliament <(

I think alot of dirty stuff have gone on.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/crisis-hit-scotrail-network-run-8959193

DOCUMENTS penned by the parent company of the Dutch firm who operate ScotRail boast the contract is used to make healthy profits on “limited investment”. THE firm responsible for *Scotland’s crisis-hit rail *network have admitted our trains are run for the *benefit of commuters in *Holland.

Business documents penned by the parent company of the Dutch firm who operate ScotRail boast the contract is used to make healthy profits on “limited investment”.

The boss of Utrecht-based *Nederlandse Spoorwegen (NS), who own ScotRail operators Abellio, says passengers in the Netherlands must benefit from the firm’s work overseas.

Business documents penned by the parent company of the Dutch firm who operate ScotRail boast the contract is used to make healthy profits on “limited investment”.

The boss of Utrecht-based *Nederlandse Spoorwegen (NS), who own ScotRail operators Abellio, says passengers in the Netherlands must benefit from the firm’s work overseas.

Pic: PAScotland's rail network has been criticised
The claims are a bitter pill to swallow for Scotland’s commuters who are *routinely hit with cancellations, long delays and cramped conditions.

Politicians have called for the Scottish Government’s deal to be ripped up after August statistics revealed 24 out of 75 services were late more often than they were on time.

NS, who are the Dutch national train operator, made the statements in their 2015 annual report.

Their subsidiary Abellio were awarded the ScotRail franchise in 2014 and took over in April last year. Accounts filed at Companies House show the Dutch firm are raking in *£1million profit a month from the deal.

NS said in their report: “Abellio helps make NS profitable.”

They added: “Furthermore, the capital invested is relatively limited while a return on investment is achieved of 18 per cent. The expectation is that this will remain the case in the future.”

They revealed “revenue from *passenger transport” increased by around £700million to £3.7billion *“primarily due to the start of the ScotRail franchise on April 1, 2015”.

The report includes a comment from NS chief financial officer Engelhardt Robbe, who said: “The passengers who use the train every day in the *Netherlands must benefit from our achievements abroad.”

The firm added: “Activities abroad have to contribute to the public interests in the Netherlands. Like other major European state railway *companies, we are preparing for *possible further *liberalisation of the market.”

Commuters search for the end of the queue
Critics said the remarks increased pressure on the Scottish Government to cancel the Abellio contract and *condemned the claims in the NS report.

The Rail Maritime and Transport Union’s Scottish organiser Gordon *Martin said: “Abellio are taking *£1million a month profit out of the ScotRail franchise, which is an absolute disgrace. It appears this is getting *reinvested in the Dutch railways at the expense of the travelling public and the workforce here in Scotland.

“They’re putting in minimal *investment and taking out maximum profit. We always believed this and now we know it for a fact.

“It’s the economics of the * madhouse – it’s despicable and absolutely *incredible.”

He added: “The Scottish Government have given the Scottish railways to a state-owned firm – but unfortunately it’s the Dutch state, not the Scottish one. It’s a spectacular own goal.” Opposition parties have called on the Scottish *Government to cancel the agreement after a nightmare start.


“And rather than being reinvested to improve services here, millions of pounds of profits from passenger fares are going abroad to fund the railways in the Netherlands. The current set-up can’t possibly provide value for money for passengers in Scotland.”

He added: “We need a public transport system that puts passengers first and the case for a people’s ScotRail gets more compelling by the week.

“It works for other countries like the Netherlands, France and Germany and there is no reason it can’t work here.”

Patrick Harvie
Scottish Green Party co-convener Patrick Harvie MSP said: “It is ironic that we now have a public sector rail company from another country running our *railways.” Performance figures have shown a network of services beset by delays and cancellations.

The most recent performance update from ScotRail, for the four weeks to *September 17, showed the service again failed to meet their performance target.

The figures also showed 25 out of 74 end-of-the-line stations had services which arrived late more often than they were on time.

The three worst performing stations – Arbroath, Ardrossan Harbour and Glasgow High Street – saw nine out of 10 services arriving late. Transport *Minister Humza Yousaf confirmed in *Parliament last month the Government have written to the ScotRail Alliance demanding an action plan.


He said: “We’re committed to investing in Scotland and our railway. No money has been transferred to the Netherlands.

“Under our stewardship, ScotRail have embarked on the biggest train *improvement and investment *programme in the history of Scotland’s railway. This will mean more seats, shorter journeys, smart ticketing, improved wifi and better *stations.

“We want to create a railway *everyone can be proud of and one that will enable Scotland to compete on the world stage.”

ScotRail said performance statistics ranked them 10th out of 23 train *operating companies in the UK.

A spokeswoman said: “We have agreed an action plan with Transport Scotland about how we pull this back up to the level we would expect.”

SNSScotRail's Phil Verster (left) with Transport Minister Derek McKay
Phil Verster, managing director of the ScotRail Alliance, last week admitted passengers are weary of the train *company’s poor performance.

A Transport Scotland spokeswoman said: “The franchise agreement ensures Abellio are prevented from making *excessive profits because once they achieve a revenue above a defined level, as committed to in their bid, they must pay back 50 per cent of any profit above that to Scottish Ministers.

“Abellio ScotRail’s reported profits are substantially less than previous *franchisee First ScotRail.”
 
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3141

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They have revenue of around £700 million from Scotrail and make profits of £12 million, according to the item quoted. About 1.7%.

It's not going to make a tremendous difference to Dutch rail passengers, even if the rail system there is a small one.

Presumably the unsuccessful bidders wanted a bigger subsidy, or offered a smaller premium.
 

XC90

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It's going to be a tough week this week. Certain organisations will revel at this news. Lazy journalists/news broadcasters too will be repeating this news with outrage. Wee Joe Public will be interviewed on Buchanan Street telling us it's "shocking" and "its a joke", whilst still referring to British Rail.

SNP ministers will be wheeled out to talk about the process and blame everything on Westminster then talk 'tough' and tell us they are on Abellio's back demanding x y z.

Same old, same old, blah blah blah!!!!!! !
 

Shaw S Hunter

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It's called the globalised economy and this sort of thing happens in almost every economic sector pretty much everywhere. Complete non-story. If journalists really want to display some justified indignation they should be looking at things like the use of child labour to produce big name branded goods or the near slave labour employment conditions of foreign workers prevalent in certain countries which could certainly afford to do better.
 

ungreat

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"Business documents penned by the parent company of the ***** firm who operate ******* boast the contract is used to make healthy profits on “limited investment”.

Insert any private company/ railway plc etc name and it would be accurate!
 

Robertj21a

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It seems that the Daily Record either doesn't understand business or they have a journalist who has too much time on his hands.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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If Scotrail is underperforming, there will be redress under the contract, assuming it was drawn up in the right way.
The contract was negotiated by ... Transport Scotland.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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They have revenue of around £700 million from Scotrail and make profits of £12 million, according to the item quoted. About 1.7%.

Makes you wonder exactly what level of profit is seen as a successful benchmark figure by the Daily Record journalists.

Knowing how "careful" those canny souls north of the border are with cash, I was at once reminded of Ebenezer Balfour, the miserly uncle of David Balfour, in the novel "Kidnapped" by Robert Louis Stevenson.
 
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Chrisgr31

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The same arguments apply to any other TOC that makes a profit from their contract, and of course if they don't make a profit why are they doing it?

However as someone pointed out that profit is less than 2% of turnover and it doesn't take much at that level of profit for profits to become losses, just ask Tesco!

However if you do not believe that private companies should run the trains it makes for some good stories!
 

Blindtraveler

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A non story for the most part, Il bet some of old TPE's proffit went back to France and others too.

As a vocal chritic of the current shower in charge at both Transport Scotland and Scotrail however I dont blame that journo for wanting a good winge and pop at things as they are as to your average punter it really does look like little or nothing is being done to improve on or indeed maintain previouse standards. First might not be a bed of roses but I bet theres many a commuter who wants them back right now.
 

Greenback

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As a critic of the franchise system, I don't much like the way money is being used to help fund the railway systems in other countries, but the amounts involved are pretty small and this is nothing new. I agree it's a non story.
 

JohnR

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They have revenue of around £700 million from Scotrail and make profits of £12 million, according to the item quoted. About 1.7%.

It's not going to make a tremendous difference to Dutch rail passengers, even if the rail system there is a small one.

Presumably the unsuccessful bidders wanted a bigger subsidy, or offered a smaller premium.

While I dont doubt your figures (they sound about right) - for any business, the profitability of running a franchise is not revenue against profit, but profit vs investment.

They might get £12million a year in profit - but if they have only invested say £25million (Or whatever) - it then looks to be a VERY good return on their investment. Its the same for all franchises. Hence why beardy said it was "a licence to print money".
 

The Ham

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While I dont doubt your figures (they sound about right) - for any business, the profitability of running a franchise is not revenue against profit, but profit vs investment.

They might get £12million a year in profit - but if they have only invested say £25million (Or whatever) - it then looks to be a VERY good return on their investment. Its the same for all franchises. Hence why beardy said it was "a licence to print money".

Let's assume that ever month the Franchise holder receives £1 million in profit, that means that, assuming a £25 million investment that it would take at least 25 months before there is any extra money beyond that invested (assuming 0% interest/delation/other mechanism that decreases the return).

Now given the franchise is for a minimum of 7 years (84 months) then there is a further 59 months in which to gain extra profits. As such they see a return of just over 3 times what they invested.

Now bearing in mind what we know about UK rail costs and if we assume that this is the same in other European countries then that up to extra £60 million isn't going to gain the Dutch people a whole lot of extra.

Likewise if it were to remain in the UK as investment in our railways it wouldn't make that much of a difference (bearing in mind the £4.8bn of direct subsidy that the rail industry receives each year, so £60 million is about 1.25%). Yes it would be beneficial, but then would it a) be there (i.e. would there be the same costs/expenses), b) be reinvested where it was earned (i.e. Scottish money spent on Crossrail 2) or c) be used for railways at all, even if it stayed in Scotland (i.e. going in to the general Scottish Government funds)?
 

daikilo

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While I dont doubt your figures (they sound about right) - for any business, the profitability of running a franchise is not revenue against profit, but profit vs investment.

They might get £12million a year in profit - but if they have only invested say £25million (Or whatever) - it then looks to be a VERY good return on their investment. Its the same for all franchises. Hence why beardy said it was "a licence to print money".

If, as said previously, their ROI is 18% then their investment is roughly 12m/0.18 = ~67m. That is probably around twice what it actually cost to bid based on claims during the WC Franchise shouting match. Also, at 18% ROI payback on the total investment is about 5.5 years, which leaves just 1.5 years to make a margin. And all that is without tax implications (unless the 12m is after tax).
 

Mojo

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I've never heard the ScotRail franchise be described as "crisis hit" before.
 

scotraildriver

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A single cancellation constitutes a crisis the the Scotsman. Ridiculous reporting.

The Scotsman transport correspondent Alastair Dalton is unfortunately utterly clueless when it comes to reporting anything vaguely factual. Just read his twitter feeds, slating ScotRail, firstgroup,lothian buses at every opportunity yet most of his information seems to come from this very forum. I am very wary about posting anything here now after he published my comments from this forum on twitter. Don't believe anything the Scotsman might say.
 

XC90

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So I wonder if the Daily Record and Scotsman would be fine if it was First group which still ran the franchise? Therefore profits would go to a Scottish company.
 

Agent_c

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Not really a surprise, this is the whole point of having state rail operators work outside of their home market - be it here, or on the other side of the planet (QR). They operate on a commercial basis so their home stakeholder benefits.

They aren't a charity.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I've never heard the ScotRail franchise be described as "crisis hit" before.

You don't sell newspapers with headlines like "Everything is mostly OK, could be a little better though". You sell newspapers with "Crisis", "Scandal", etc.
 

Blindtraveler

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You dont sell them by publishing stuff someone like Scotraildriver who seams a genuine and nice bloke has published on an internet forun though, shame on him and well done Scotraildriver for your many informative and helpful posts, cheers mate
 

Abpj17

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Hmmm, there are other potential factors at play though:
- Neither would it be appropriate for Dutch commuters to subsidise ScotRail (because what would the point be of doing business)
- Is there a state of affairs where profit-extraction could be justified e.g. if expertise from Dutch operations make significant advances in technology/efficiency for the ScotRail franchise
- it doesn’t seem surprising that revenue increase given it was a new contract or that investment was limited in the first year of the contract…what will the position be like in other years?
- the 50% profit share seems sensible (what happens in the english franchises that are left as revenue contracts?)
 

Simon11

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If, as said previously, their ROI is 18% then their investment is roughly 12m/0.18 = ~67m. That is probably around twice what it actually cost to bid based on claims during the WC Franchise shouting match. Also, at 18% ROI payback on the total investment is about 5.5 years, which leaves just 1.5 years to make a margin. And all that is without tax implications (unless the 12m is after tax).

Also factor in bidding costs of easily a few £million and for other £m spent on bids lost as well!
 

TRAX

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Journalism at its best (ie. worst). This is exactly how the globalised economy works, and it goes both ways.
 
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route:oxford

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Hmmm, there are other potential factors at play though:
- Neither would it be appropriate for Dutch commuters to subsidise ScotRail (because what would the point be of doing business)
- Is there a state of affairs where profit-extraction could be justified e.g. if expertise from Dutch operations make significant advances in technology/efficiency for the ScotRail franchise
- it doesn’t seem surprising that revenue increase given it was a new contract or that investment was limited in the first year of the contract…what will the position be like in other years?
- the 50% profit share seems sensible (what happens in the english franchises that are left as revenue contracts?)

£12M doesn't seem a lot really.

Just think how much more would be spent on hierarchies of public sector non-jobs to make the bosses feel important.
 

Northhighland

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It's going to be a tough week this week. Certain organisations will revel at this news. Lazy journalists/news broadcasters too will be repeating this news with outrage. Wee Joe Public will be interviewed on Buchanan Street telling us it's "shocking" and "its a joke", whilst still referring to British Rail.

SNP ministers will be wheeled out to talk about the process and blame everything on Westminster then talk 'tough' and tell us they are on Abellio's back demanding x y z.

Same old, same old, blah blah blah!!!!!! !

Spot on. You could be talking about any issue in Scottish politics th script is exactly the same. Life in a one party state. We have no effective opposition I am afraid.
 

clc

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Spot on. You could be talking about any issue in Scottish politics th script is exactly the same. Life in a one party state. We have no effective opposition I am afraid.

It's a strange example of a one party state given the ruling party could be outvoted in Parliament at any time.
 

47271

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Hell on wheelsLife for commuters on Scotland's over-crowded trains

http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/14...muters_on_Scotland__39_s_over_crowded_trains/

Much too long to quote, but at least one journalist has attempted to gather first hand passenger evidence on the subject of the Abellio Scotrail contract.

No mention of the franchise's critical shortage of diesel units caused by the loss of the four 170s to Southern and the Borders Railway opening, or that the East Kilbride line has been a disgrace for decades, and a few inaccuracies, but worth reading nevertheless.
 
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