Possible plans for Edinburgh Waverley station?

[najaB]

... the platforms, lighting and the signage need Improving, I much prefer Glasgow central.

Must be a different Waverley than the one I use.

 

[Scotrail84]

Work has now started to extend the motorail sidings right up in line with the buffer end of platform 4. If only they hadn't filled them in to begin with. :roll:

 

[sprinterguy]

Must be a different Waverley than the one I use.

Yes, that's my thoughts as well. I'm only an occasional user of the station and yet have never had any problems navigating the station or finding the right platform, and find it bright and airy.

 

[47271]

I had a quick look earlier and, yes, there's quite a bit of what looks like builder's equipment - possibly wooden hoardings ready to go up, I'm not quite sure - appearing all along the fence that divides the area from P4. I would've taken a photo but it would've been the most boring image ever to appear on this forum, and in saying that I'm aware that it would have some competition for that prize.

As for Waverley generally, most of us whiz around it fine, but it is daunting for those unfamiliar with its layout or unpredictable platform allocations, or anyone whose mobility is restricted. I heard a story about an elderly couple missing TWO Borders trains in succession because they were confused (by the layout, not in themselves) and slow. Think how long it might take to get from P1 to P3 if you can't move at more than a steady shuffle?

That said, it's miles better than it was even ten years ago and I'm not sure what they could do to make such a complex listed building located in a steep sided valley floor more appealing to the user.

 

[iain-j]

Can anyone tell me about this old photo of the east end of the Waverley that has been a bit of a mystery to me.

https://www.railscot.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=8124

It shows apparently the old platforms 2, 3, 4 and 5 (5 now being the current platform 3) before the first two were filled in, with the Rail gourmet being built on top of them and platforms 4 and 5, that were shortened and the operations centre placed there.

The part that is a mystery is the buildings in the far distance, as they are very different in design and materials of the main station building that exists today. They seem to match the materials used in the Scotrail/Virgin building that exists on platform 11.

What was the purpose of these buildings?
When were they demolished etc?
Did they have anything to do with the old parcels office etc?

 

[najaB]

As for Waverley generally, most of us whiz around it fine, but it is daunting for those unfamiliar with its layout or unpredictable platform allocations, or anyone whose mobility is restricted. I heard a story about an elderly couple missing TWO Borders trains in succession because they were confused (by the layout, not in themselves) and slow. Think how long it might take to get from P1 to P3 if you can't move at more than a steady shuffle?

I agree the layout can be confusing until you 'get' it, but there's no problem with lighting, signage or general access and condition of structures as implied in faltskog36abba's post.

 

[ian1944]

Re. the comparison between Waverley and Glasgow Central (high-level), how could platform numbering be anything like the same, when the former has a mixture of through ones and bays at each end and the latter is exclusively terminal? Waverley's clockwise numerical pattern is broken by 10 then 9 then 8 at the east side, of course - I'd have done things differently. And if it's the case, as I recall, that the Calton Road bridge has no steps to P1, that's a definite flaw.

 

[47271]

Can anyone tell me about this old photo of the east end of the Waverley that has been a bit of a mystery to me.

https://www.railscot.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=8124

It shows apparently the old platforms 2, 3, 4 and 5 (5 now being the current platform 3) before the first two were filled in, with the Rail gourmet being built on top of them and platforms 4 and 5, that were shortened and the operations centre placed there.

The part that is a mystery is the buildings in the far distance, as they are very different in design and materials of the main station building that exists today. They seem to match the materials used in the Scotrail/Virgin building that exists on platform 11.

What was the purpose of these buildings?
When were they demolished etc?
Did they have anything to do with the old parcels office etc?

Unless I'm misinterpreting the photo, the rightmost part looks to me like the old mail handling depot, which was demolished remarkably recently, and probably less than ten years ago. Until then it formed part of the short stay car park, I certainly remember driving into it many times from 2003 onwards.

Although clearly out of use for a long time, it still had the systems for flying mail bags and, if memory serves, straight across from the lower floors of the GPO in Calton Road.

Most of the site is now that useless piece of tarmac, with the even more useless 'Friday Market', by P2.

The brickbuilt section on the left I think has now been reclad in timber effect and was, and is, the operations centre you describe.

 

[jadmor]

Can anyone tell me about this old photo of the east end of the Waverley that has been a bit of a mystery to me.

https://www.railscot.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=8124



What was the purpose of these buildings?
When were they demolished etc?
Did they have anything to do with the old parcels office etc?

This part of the station was occupied by the Post Office, with an overhead conveyor bring in bags over platforms 1 and 19 to a large square structure.

There are, for me, two problems with Waverley these days, firstly there is a huge area on the east side that is empty, while the west side is cramped and always feels overcrowded. I don't know what could be done about this, other than moving all the shops to the east side. Secondly, the new through lines are not easy to get to from the main concourse. As for the renumbering, it still confuses me, but that might be down to age!

 

[PaulLothian]

Unless I'm misinterpreting the photo, the rightmost part looks to me like the old mail handling depot, which was demolished remarkably recently, and probably less than ten years ago. Until then it formed part of the short stay car park, I certainly remember driving into it many times from 2003 onwards.

Although clearly out of use for a long time, it still had the systems for flying mail bags and, if memory serves, straight across from the lower floors of the GPO in Calton Road.

Not sure just when the mail handling depot went out of use, but I used to love watching the mail bags rattling into and out of the station in the early 1970s. The GPO closed in the mid-90s, but I am sure the mail bag chain went out of use long before that.

 

[iain-j]

there is a huge area on the east side that is empty, while the west side is cramped and always feels overcrowded. I don't know what could be done about this, other than moving all the shops to the east side.

I agree with you about the difference in the West side of the station compared to the east. Clearly the West side sees more services in and out than the east does but I doubt they would move the shops as they are placed in such a way to be "Impulse purchases". Less people would purchase stuff if they had to walk to the other end of the station and back.
I do wonder why the rail gourmet was put where it was instead of further back in line with the operations centre. It would have allowed the old platforms 2 and 3 to be used instead of off-service trains taking up space on the through tracks in the station

The brickbuilt section on the left I think has now been reclad in timber effect and was, and is, the operations centre you describe.

I think this may be a new structure or has been built onto as it currently has far more windows than the one shown in the picture

 

[47271]

I think this may be a new structure or has been built onto as it currently has far more windows than the one shown in the picture

I was looking at the Operations Depot again today and I think you're right, it looks more like it had been built to replace the one in the picture. The cladding looks like it was put on to cover the outside walls exposed when the mail depot was pulled down.

 

[faltskog36abba]

I agree the layout can be confusing until you 'get' it, but there's no problem with lighting, signage or general access and condition of structures as implied in faltskog36abba's post.

When I entered Waverley station down the long stairs I passed a shop on the right, I think it was a Sainsbury .. anyway outside it had an electronic train destination screen that said my train to Manchester was delayed by 38 minutes.
So all I wanted to know was where was the main ticket hall and destination screens, I went down the escalator and looked at the screen which said my train was due in a platform[I cant remember the platform] but it was where all the big dustbins are kept. There was no announcements except that my train was delayed and the displays on the screens said two different platforms which was wrong, Then when on platform 10 after an hour delay the Tpe staff had to radio control to ask if this was the right platform for the train as people travelling to Glasgow were also on the platform and no announcements were being made. You are probably right that if I use the station a few times I will know how the platform layout works, but near Sainsbury I didn't know if to turn left over the Overbridge or if I had come into the wrong entrance.

 

[najaB]

There was no announcements except that my train was delayed and the displays on the screens said two different platforms which was wrong.

That is very unusual as (to the best of my knowledge) they all pull data from the same source.

 

[jadmor]

I found an interesting link to a site that describes the station in detail..

http://www.describe-online.com/br/edinburghwaverley/platforms2and19.htm

These are separate platforms along the north side of the main area of the station with platform 2 running east and platform 19 running west.
Platform 2 leads east from the east end of the North Mall, whilst platform 19 leads west from the foot of the steps to the bridge. There's therefore a gap between these platforms which includes the space between ....

 

[deltic08]

Time to log off when you read puns like these.

I'm passing through Waverley tomorrow so I'll see if I can get to the root of things then.

Probably can't see the wood for the trees.

 

[SouthSub]

Not sure just when the mail handling depot went out of use, but I used to love watching the mail bags rattling into and out of the station in the early 1970s. The GPO closed in the mid-90s, but I am sure the mail bag chain went out of use long before that.

I can remember seeing the flying bags when going out of the station on the way to the football at Easter Road, so that would have been the late 80s or early 90s.

 

[iain-j]

Was it always intended to initially extend platforms 5 and 6 to the same length as what platform 4 is the now and then extend to full length for the arrival of East Coast IEP Trains, or has the acquisition of 6 car 380s on the North Berwick line prompted this to happen? It seems to avoid these sets taking up space on through tracks in the Waverley when sitting idle.

 

[Chrism20]

Got the train into Waverley today from East Lothian (Arriving Waverley about 1800), we arrived into platform four.

One thing that surprised me was they still haven't installed any ticket machines at that end of the station.

There was approximately thirty people on the inbound (mostly students who got on at Musselburgh) queuing to get a ticket.

There were three people all selling tickets on the platform side of the barrier and about a dozen people waiting on the concourse side of the barrier to buy tickets but all the staff were on the other side.

Given that the borders services leave from down that end quite frequently there is a lot more footfall I'm surprised that a TVM hasn't been installed down that end.

 

[iain-j]

Got the train into Waverley today from East Lothian (Arriving Waverley about 1800), we arrived into platform four.

One thing that surprised me was they still haven't installed any ticket machines at that end of the station.

There was approximately thirty people on the inbound (mostly students who got on at Musselburgh) queuing to get a ticket.

There were three people all selling tickets on the platform side of the barrier and about a dozen people waiting on the concourse side of the barrier to buy tickets but all the staff were on the other side.

Given that the borders services leave from down that end quite frequently there is a lot more footfall I'm surprised that a TVM hasn't been installed down that end.

I have often wondered why they didn't have one at the east end as well and assumed they probably didn't want to pay for the cost of a TVM. Now I am starting to wonder if it's deliberate to make sure that passengers have to go to the west end of the station where all the shops are located.

 

[Chrism20]

I have often wondered why they didn't have one at the east end as well and assumed they probably didn't want to pay for the cost of a TVM. Now I am starting to wonder if it's deliberate to make sure that passengers have to go to the west end of the station where all the shops are located.

The other half said that as well but if that is their plan it's not been too successful going by the queue.

 

[endecotp]

Spoke to some people who are travelling to Musselburgh each day this week for a course.
They went to the Waverly ticket office and were told to buy weekly seasons.
Took such a long time to issue photo cards and tickets (15 in group) that they missed the train. Were going to just run and get on the train, but staff had taken their passports to copy photos! Next train in an hour. Ended up in taxis to not miss start of course.

 

[me123]

^ An odd story. Did they plan to buy season tickets? Did they all just happen to have their passports to hand?

Surprised they didn't do their research before they left (there's this forum I've heard of that has a few dozen ticketing gurus giving out free advice) and prepare in advance. Preparing fifteen new season tickets does take time, and they'd need to have planned for that and allowed plenty of time. The information is freely available on the World Wide Web. If they were in a rush, why not just buy fifteen returns?

 

[47271]

It is an odd story, not least because three taxis for the fifteen people there and back every day would probably be cheaper than going by train?

 

[takno]

It is an odd story, not least because three taxis for the fifteen people there and back every day would probably be cheaper than going by train?

It definitely wouldn't be cheaper to get a taxi in Edinburgh than the 7 day seasons, although if you were just buying peak day returns or you had a multiple of 6 people instead of 5 you might be close. Musselbrough is an odd station anyway - for most of the area you'd be better off getting a bus, given that the trains aren't exactly regular and the station is nowhere near the town.

 

[SouthSub]

It definitely wouldn't be cheaper to get a taxi in Edinburgh than the 7 day seasons, although if you were just buying peak day returns or you had a multiple of 6 people instead of 5 you might be close. Musselbrough is an odd station anyway - for most of the area you'd be better off getting a bus, given that the trains aren't exactly regular and the station is nowhere near the town.

If they're on a course there's every chance it would be at Queen Margaret University, for which the station is ideally located.

 

[takno]

If they're on a course there's every chance it would be at Queen Margaret University, for which the station is ideally located.

Fair point. I was trying to think of anywhere you'd hold courses there and completely forgot QM

 

[endecotp]

^ An odd story. Did they plan to buy season tickets? Did they all just happen to have their passports to hand?

They had passports because they'd just flown in to Edinburgh.

The person who told me to story wasn't at the front of the group so didn't hear the whole exchange, but I speculate the person "in charge" asked "what's cheapest?" and was told "weekly seasons".

Yes course was at QM.

 

[railjock]

If they're on a course there's every chance it would be at Queen Margaret University, for which the station is ideally located.

20 minute walk from Newcraighall station.

 

[fegguk]

20 minute walk from Newcraighall station.

Queen Margaret University is only 2 minutes walk from Musselburgh station.