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Nottingham 'Bus War'

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edwin_m

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I'm surprised that Skylink Express doesn't stop at East Midlands Parkway. I know it's been discussed many times before about a lack of a bus service from EMP to the airport and I can fully understand that it is perhaps not viable. However, I would have thought that with some advertising there ought to be a market for travel from Clifton, especially the Nottingham Trent University, to East Midlands Parkway for onward rail travel to London at a shorter journey time than travelling via central Nottingham. East Midlands Parkway to Clifton and Nottingham, or to the Airport alone would not be viable, but when the bus is passing the station on a regular basis I would have thought that a small amount of additional revenue could be made from stopping at the station.

According to the link a couple of posts back, it doesn't stop because of the extra journey time negotiating the rather convoluted access road to the Parkway. Clifton has frequent tram and bus services passing Nottingham station, and I suspect the demographic there isn't one that makes frequent train journeys in any case, so I think a bus link to the Parkway would carry very few passengers.
 
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PhilStockley

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The additional time needed to serve Parkway would have meant that the route would have needed four rather than three vehicles and the cost of the extra vehicle for minimal extra revenue sank the business case straight away. I did model both scenarios but could not make it stack up. A shame really, because from an integrated transport perspective it would have been beautiful - an airport, an inter-city rail station, a park and ride and a major City Centre terminus all on the same route. If only they could have made for a more direct link into the station off the A453, rather than the slow, tortuous approach round three or four mini roundabouts, it would have been irresistible!
 

ashworth

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The additional time needed to serve Parkway would have meant that the route would have needed four rather than three vehicles and the cost of the extra vehicle for minimal extra revenue sank the business case straight away. I did model both scenarios but could not make it stack up. A shame really, because from an integrated transport perspective it would have been beautiful - an airport, an inter-city rail station, a park and ride and a major City Centre terminus all on the same route. If only they could have made for a more direct link into the station off the A453, rather than the slow, tortuous approach round three or four mini roundabouts, it would have been irresistible!

I now understand why the decision was made for the Skylink Express not to stop,at East Midlands Parkway. However, to some it would sound unbelievable that a regular bus service would pass by a mainline station without stopping, especially when the station is not served by any other bus route.
 

AndyW33

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Plus the number of trains (4 per hour isnt it) that actually serve the station isn't great.
The standard off-peak train service provides 6 per hour -
One St Pancras-Nottingham and corresponding Nottingham-St Pancras
One St Pancras-Sheffield and corresponding Sheffield-St Pancras
One Leicester -Lincoln and corresponding Lincoln-Leicester
All 6 trains call between xx34 and xx56, the other half of the hour has no service at all, which does make it hard to design an efficient bus service to connect the station with the airport, or anywhere else for that matter!
 

MCR247

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What would be the point of a bus serving East Midlands Parkway anyway? The fact is relatively few people are willing to use a bus over cars to get to the airport, so even fewer are going to take the chance on EMT as well as a bus on the way to catch a flight. I'm not sure many people from West Bridgford/Clifton etc are likely to use EMD on their way to London as at Nottingham you have to chance to board the train in your own time and find a nice seat etc
 
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What would be the point of a bus serving East Midlands Parkway anyway? The fact is relatively few people are willing to use a bus over cars to get to the airport, so even fewer are going to take the chance on EMT as well as a bus on the way to catch a flight. I'm not sure many people from West Bridgford/Clifton etc are likely to use EMD on their way to London as at Nottingham you have to chance to board the train in your own time and find a nice seat etc

Handy for students at the Universities Sutton Bonnington campus (the 865 provides that 'link', plus one of the uni buses calls(or use to?) at the railway station on Fridays & Sundays. A link from local communities could be beneficial if regular enough.
 

Deerfold

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kevjs

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According to Derbyshire County Council Trentbarton 'Zoom' & Notts & Derby X17 finish after the 17th Feb.
They are to be replaced by a new Notts & Derby service 12/A.
 
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Not sure if this has been noted on here previously, and apologies if so. YourBus' 2015/16 financial report now on companies House website. Sorry can't quote anything from it because it is a scanned document, but here anyway
Report
It certainly looks like the termination of the NatEx contract was costly to them.
 

Robertj21a

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Not sure if this has been noted on here previously, and apologies if so. YourBus' 2015/16 financial report now on companies House website. Sorry can't quote anything from it because it is a scanned document, but here anyway
Report
It certainly looks like the termination of the NatEx contract was costly to them.

Good !. They were rubbish on NatExp work and deserved to be kicked off. I bet that rather large hole in the Accounts generated a few heated discussions.
 

the101

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The Yutong CB12 demonstrator is apparently to enter service with Yourbus very soon, if it has not already done so. Bit of a come-down from Citaros, that...
 

Mugby

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To answer my own question, there is a new registration for Yourbus route 1/1A between Derby and Alvaston starting 12 February. Nothing on the Derbyshire route update pages yet (they still produce info for City of Derby services) .

They seem to have decided that Arriva are an easier target than Trent Barton or NCT.

Arriva seem to be retaliating with a new service to Alvaston via Pride Park, four journeys per hour but they run three minutes in front of Yourbus. Doesn't start until 6th March though, so Yourbus have a month to get established on the route.

Strange how Arriva are calling theirs F1, should we read anything into that!
 
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May explain this registration
C North West of England DUNN MOTOR TRACTION LTD HEANOR GATE ROAD, HEANOR GATE INDUSTRIAL ESTATE, HEANOR, DE75 7RJ, GB PC1094655 Valid PC1094655/40 Registered 1 2017-01-03 2017-02-28 1 (1A) Vary Route 2017-01-10T00:00:00+0000 Variation Accepted by SN Variation applications
BTW I *HATE* the new VOSA registration website.
 
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Bwsbro

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The New Yourbus Timetable for the 1/1A is now online on the Derbybus website

http://www.derbysbus.info/times/timetables/001Y-170212.pdf

Both the 1/1A will operate every 15 minute, giving a combined service departing Derby Bus Station every 7/8 minutes by Yourbus

From looking at the timetable, both Arriva and Yourbus services will depart Derby Bus Station at the same time however, Yourbus will operate the opposite route to the Arriva service
 
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G0ORC

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I appreciate that this has nothing to do with a "Bus War" and also nothing to do with Nottingham but this seems to be the forum for Trent Barton and its services so I'll ask the question here..

There are a number of rumours circulating in the Belper area concerning the Sixes group of services. The rumours are of a major recast of services in April, the withdrawal of the 6.X and using that spare capacity to increase the frequency of the 6.1 to two services an hour one of which will terminate (as now) at Bakewell, the other turning short at Matlock. Presumably this means both running, as now via Wirksworth.

There's no doubt the bulk of the revenue on this group of services is the 6.2 and 6.3 and the Derby - Belper portion of the 6.1 and 6.4 and I can see he reasoning behind this move should it happen. The current timetable has been in operation in excess of fifteen years with only minor tweaks (the addition of some FO and SO services) in that time.

I've heard this from a number of TrentBarton connected sources and just wondered if anything had surfaced elsewhere.

The branded Scanias on this group of services are now 11 years old and, to put it mildly, are showing their age. They had a mid-life cosmetic refurbishment around two years ago but they are all looking and feeling increasingly tatty.

The rumours regarding YourBus competition on the Derby - Belper section of the Sixes appear seem to have died the death despite the appearance of YourBus vehicles apparently undertaking timing trials well over a year ago.
 
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15% discount on cash fares for mango card holders on the new Notts & Derby 12/A from 19th February. Now that's a first!
 

chessie

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Shame the sixes arent planned to go half hourly upto Bakewell through the day, with a little bit of marketing the passenger numbers are probably there. Could easily see one bus an hour going via Rowsley, Chatsworth en route (replacing the 217 that connects with pretty much nothing currently), the other direct via A6 to Bakewell and the same return.

The 218 from Sheffield seems to be going from strength to strength on a similar model, catering very well for locals and tourists alike.
 
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15% discount on cash fares for mango card holders on the new Notts & Derby 12/A from 19th February. Now that's a first!

I guess they will still be using the same vehicles as zoom so they will have the card readers configured ready. I really don't understand why they de-branded this route in the first place.

It would make sense for wellglade to have a unified ITSO offering IMHO. It always seems odd to me that Derby skylink doesn't accept mango.
 
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I guess they will still be using the same vehicles as zoom so they will have the card readers configured ready. I really don't understand why they de-branded this route in the first place.

It would make sense for wellglade to have a unified ITSO offering IMHO. It always seems odd to me that Derby skylink doesn't accept mango.


It appears it's a cash transaction - ie discount if you show your Mango card - no actual money taken off your mango card. So you could have a zero balance and just get a discount for showing a mango card.

Completely mad set up. Why not just integrate Wellglade across the board and make it simple for customers. No don't be daft....
 

G0ORC

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Completely mad set up. Why not just integrate Wellglade across the board and make it simple for customers. No don't be daft....

I'm no expert but there must be a financial (i.e. tax) reason why Wellglade is a number of allegedly separate entities rather than all TrentBarton...
 

Robertj21a

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I thought it was because they do want the lower cost business but don't want to taint the Trent brand with it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yes, and probably just as importantly, I'm sure the N&D staff are paid at lower rates !

The Kinchbus subsidiary is slightly different again as it's largely there to reinforce dominance around the Loughborough area.
 

Deerfold

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I'm no expert but there must be a financial (i.e. tax) reason why Wellglade is a number of allegedly separate entities rather than all TrentBarton...

Financially, it's sensible so that one company going bankrupt doesn't have to take the whole lot with them.

If they're all registered in the UK there's unlikely to be any tax saving.

It's also easier to just add a company you've bought as a new subsidiary than merging it with another.
 

Pigalle

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I guess they will still be using the same vehicles as zoom so they will have the card readers configured ready. I really don't understand why they de-branded this route in the first place.

It would make sense for wellglade to have a unified ITSO offering IMHO. It always seems odd to me that Derby skylink doesn't accept mango.

Kinchbus and TrentBarton are presumably already unified to accommodate this ticket:

https://www.smartgo.co.uk/images/EMA_supercommuter_poster.pdf

also it was promised in early - mid 2016 that the the electronic trentbartonland Saver tickets would cover both networks although I've never had any confirmation that this ever happened.

Interestingly it appears to have happened with the KinchKard equivalent if you buy a Kinchbus Universe and trentbartonland combined annual ticket, see here:

https://www.kinchbus.co.uk/kinchkard
 
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PhilStockley

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Some of you are nearly right, some are way off the mark.

The view of the Wellglade directors is that they do not function as a group, but as a series of independent businesses that happen to have the same investors. Each company has its own autonomous management team and it is for that team to determine its own strategy. The Board is there to guide, advise, question and scrutinise, but will never tell the subsidiary companies what to do.

The only real group efficiencies are in back office functions such as finance and IT, where there are obvious overhead savings, but even then if an individual company didn't want to use the Group resource and could make a business case for going a different way, they are free to take the idea to the Board.

There tends to be more co-operation between trentbarton and Kinchbus than other group companies because they share some of the same management team, but even then the two companies have distinct cultures and different ways of doing things.

Therefore there is no question of the Board decreeing that there should be such things as groupwide tickets. They will take the view that it is up to the individual companies to decide whether such things are worthwhile, and if so they will get together between themselves to make them happen.
 
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