December 2017 Timetable

[DaveHarries]

GWR have published a track access application which as well as re-combining services at Maidenhead and splitting Oxford semi-fasts at Didcot covers the extra 06.33 Paddington-Penzance and 12.04 return and the 19.12 Paddington-Bristol becoming SX instead of FO, but doesn't mention the other West of England changes.
These appear to be (ignoring changed intermediate calls) ;-
05.46 Exeter St Davids-Paddington starts from Plymouth at 04.51
05.09 Plymouth-Paddington via Bristol starts Exeter St Davids at 06.28
07.03 from Paddington reverts to Paignton and the 07.30 to Penzance, with neither serving Dawlish or Teignmouth - I would have thought that, and the extra train between Paddington and Taunton over the B&H would require an amendment to the contract or even the franchise agreement. 11.34 Paddington-Exeter replaced by a 10.35 Paddington-Paignton and 12.34 Paddington-Taunton.
10.00 Paddington-Paignton terminating at Bristol to balance a new 12.00 to Paddington, replacing the 07.41 from Penzance-Paddington, which now goes B&H.
10.30 Paddington extended to Weston-s-M.
13.03 Penzance-Paddington starts from Plymouth
14.13 Paignton-Paddington starts at 14.53
14.53 Exeter-Paddington is replaced by a 15.53 from Taunton and a 16.48 from Newbury.
16.02 Plymouth-Paddington starts from Penzance.
17.06 Paddington-Westbury extended to Frome, which oddly has no replacement for the call made by the 14.53 Exeter.
;
Although all the changes are shown from 1st January in OTT and NRT tables circulated, the application shows the extra Penzance to run from the timetable change, and the electrification associated changes from 2nd January (apart from one reference to 3rd!) presumably accounted for by a special service on 1st.

Thanks for that list. I just checked on RTT: the termination at WSM of the 1000 PAD-BRI means that the 1330 BRI-PAD starts back from WSM at 1301.

Dave

 

[PHILIPE]

A cursory look at RTT for December 11 shows no changes to the Wrexham-Chester or Shrewsbury-Chester timetable.
So the "North-South Journey Time Reduction" project hasn't delivered yet, despite the completion of line speed upgrades.
Nor are they taking any advantage of the new double track section Saltney-Rossett (though it will help in any disruption).
Time for it to change, of course, but we are within 11 weeks of the timetable change now.

There won't be any change now for December because anything would affect timings all the way to Birmingham International, Cardiff and Holyhead where paths have been agreed months ago.

 

[berneyarms]

ATW do have form however for getting changes up pretty late to be fair.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There won't be any change now for December because anything would affect timings all the way to Birmingham International, Cardiff and Holyhead where paths have been agreed months ago.

They've only had 12 months (some would say years) to plan them.

 

[Bovverboy]

Originally Posted by Starmill
New TransPennine serivces on Sunday:
0842 Manchester Piccadilly to Edinburgh, non-stop from Manchester Oxford Road to Preston (via Parkside)
0825 Glasgow Central to Manchester Victoria via Parkside, non-stop from Preston
1100 Manchester Airport to Glasgow Central


0900 from Manchester Airport to Edinburgh now goes to Glasgow Central
1000 Manchester Airport to Glasgow Central now goes to Edinburgh
1200 Manchester Airport to Edinburgh no longer calls at Manchester Airport, Manchester Piccadilly or Manchester Oxford Road and starts at Manchester Victoria at 1213.

These services only show as running on Sundays in just December

The 1000 Manchester Airport to Edinburgh and 1100 Manchester Airport to Glasgow show as running on Sundays until 11 Feb, i.e. the day prior to that on which we think the TPE Scottish services are going to commence running through Bolton. All the other journeys mentioned show as running to 31 Dec, although most continue in another form.
0842 Manchester Piccadilly to Edinburgh becomes 0825 Manchester Airport to Edinburgh 7 Jan to 11 Feb, then reverts to 0842 ex-Picc from 18 Feb.
0900 Manchester Airport to Glasgow Central becomes 0940 Manchester Piccadilly to Glasgow Central 7 Jan to 11 Feb, reverting to 0900 ex-MIA from the 18th.
1213 Manchester Victoria to Edinburgh becomes 1200 Manchester Airport to Edinburgh 7 Jan to 11 Feb, reverting to 1213 ex-Vic from the 18th.
0825 Glasgow Central to Manchester Victoria disappears altogether 7 Jan to 11 Feb, but reappears unchanged from 18 Feb. However the related ECS move (0741 Corkerhill to Glasgow Central) shows as running without a break, so I think there is always going to be an 0825 Glasgow Central to somewhere.
An additional Sunday working (to 31 Dec) which is showing on RTT but not Live Rail is 0915 Edinburgh to Manchester Oxford Road. Diagrammed for a diesel, it is then scheduled to run ECS to Ardwick, via Salford Crescent, Miles Platting, Ashburys, and Guide Bridge. TPE seem confident that the Bolton line is going to be electrified by 12 Feb, but less confident that the Ordsall Chord is going to be ready, since their workings which are diagrammed to reverse at Salford Crescent (up to 11 a day) show as continuing to do so to the end of the current timetable (May)!
This 0915 Edinburgh to Oxford Road isn't showing on 'Live Rail' at all at the moment, but the related ECS move (0835 Craigentinny to Edinburgh) shows as operating 10 December to 13 May, so, here again, I think there is going to continue to be an 0915 Edinburgh to somewhere.
There is an ECS move showing 2353Su Edinburgh to Craigentinny, implying that there is going to be a c.2000Su Manchester Airport to Edinburgh. Presumably a double 350 (in order to provide the stock for both Edinburgh starts the next morning), since the stock off the 1800 ex-MIA is scheduled to run to Corkerhill. This in turn leads me to think that there is going to be an additional ex-Glasgow journey which hasn't been announced, since otherwise there is going to be an accumulation of stock at Corkerhill.

 

[gavin]

London Midland staff will be delighted at working on Christmas day

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/EUS/2017/12/25/1611?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/BHM/2017/12/25/1901

 

[Bovverboy]

Originally Posted by Bovverboy
Quite, I'm certainly not questioning why the service isn't going to run to Oxford Road M/F peaks - not only would it mean rustling up an extra DMU (from where?) but there are already more than enough trains cluttering up Oxford Road station at peak times. Neither of those things would go against providing a post-peak service, M/S, though.

Have you seen the Calder Valley Mon-Saturday post-peak weekday service? It remains at the level it has been for several decades now - a 1tph all-stations stopper calling at Moston, Mills Hill, Castleton etc etc. The Sunday service was improved a few years back, with the Todmorden Curve service picking up most of the local stops.

It does seem a little abrupt the way the Manchester to Leeds service drops to 1 tph after 1926, but it could be said that there are 2 tph between Victoria and Todmorden until 2126. In the other direction (where you're let down slightly more gently) there are 2 tph between Leeds and Hebden Bridge until 2135. That's not much consolation if you're wanting to travel over the Todmorden to Hebden Bridge section (which I suspect you are), but how many passengers travel over that section, late at night? I suspect, not very many.
Look at the time of your last train from Manchester - 2321!

Yes Northern would have the stock available, but they would be introducing a cross-Manchester service to stations from which it would be withdrawn in 6 months time.

I hadn't actually intended to imply that I thought an evening M/S service was justified, I was simply making the point that it seemed odd that there should be an evening service on a Sunday, but not other nights, when Sunday night is one of the quietest of the week.

When the service is extended to the airport, there are no franchise requirements for an evening weekday service. The first service runs very early (pre 6am arrival at the Airport), the last through trains are around 7-8pm. On Sundays there's a much later start and the same service throughout the day.

Is 7pm to 8pm the time of the proposed last train to arrive/depart Manchester Airport, or the time of the last departure from Leeds?

 

[Starmill]

It does seem a little abrupt the way the Manchester to Leeds service drops to 1 tph after 1926, but it could be said that there are 2 tph between Victoria and Todmorden until 2126. In the other direction (where you're let down slightly more gently) there are 2 tph between Leeds and Hebden Bridge until 2135. That's not much consolation if you're wanting to travel over the Todmorden to Hebden Bridge section (which I suspect you are), but how many passengers travel over that section, late at night? I suspect, not very many.
Look at the time of your last train from Manchester - 2321!

Bradford <> Manchester is a pretty big 'intercity' flow, and almost all of the timetable changes on this route over the past few years have been aimed at it. Only providing 1 train an hour for that, and therefore also Halifax and Hebden Bridge to Manchester from such an early time is pretty significant. There is also quite a lot of Todmorden <> Bradford and Leeds traffic.

 

[Confused147]

London Midland staff will be delighted at working on Christmas day

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/EUS/2017/12/25/1611?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/BHM/2017/12/25/1901

Anything that shows up in RTT that far ahead should be took with extreme caution.

 

[Starmill]

Anything that shows up in RTT that far ahead should be took with extreme caution.

I think he was joking

 

[gavin]

I think he was joking

This^

Some Christmas schedules are starting to appear now a selection for VTEC

Last Kings cross to Edinburgh is 18:00 arr 22:28

Last Kings cross to Newcastle is 19:00 arr 22:11

Last Kings cross to Leeds is 20:05 arr 22:33

__________________________________________________

Last Edinburgh to Kings cross is 16:20 arr 20:45

Last Leeds to Kings cross is 19:16 arr 21:41

 

[318266]

Scotrail hasn't changed the 26 and 56 back to 10 and 40 from HLC (at least the 2H50 HLC to EDB which would be 1010 not 1026 if they did change it back). Not sure about the rush hour extra trains though.

 

[30907]

Scotrail hasn't changed the 26 and 56 back to 10 and 40 from HLC (at least the 2H50 HLC to EDB which would be 1010 not 1026 if they did change it back). Not sure about the rush hour extra trains though.

HLC? Is that Helensburgh Central?

Welcome on board, but there is a convention about using station names the first time they are mentioned. EDB for Edinburgh (Waverley) is more obvious.

 

[CheeseOnToast]

London Midland staff will be delighted at working on Christmas day

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/EUS/2017/12/25/1611?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/BHM/2017/12/25/1901

The WTT is published with trains running 25 and 26 December each year, these are then cancelled off via the Informed Traveller process. As each individual passenger and freight needs cancelling (or 99.99% of them do) then it's a lot of schedules to amend (I sent 50,000 downstream for one Christmas week one year) and it's not unusual for some to be missed or fail publication for some reason. Trawls through the database and TRUST are done regularly and the stragglers picked up.

Also operators will submit Train Operator Variation Requests into the Dec 17 timetable, a permanent change to the WTT, this will include Christmas Day and Boxing Day until the relevant STP teams catch up and caped them.

 

[Bovverboy]

​

​

[*]There is an ECS move showing 2353Su Edinburgh to Craigentinny, implying that there is going to be a c.2000Su Manchester Airport to Edinburgh.

One Sunday addition from 10 December which hasn't been mentioned is a 1957 Edinburgh to Manchester Airport. This adds to my feeling that there is going to be a c.2000Su Airport-Edinburgh, but it still hasn't appeared.

 

[Bovverboy]

This 0915 Edinburgh to Oxford Road isn't showing on 'Live Rail' at all at the moment, but the related ECS move (0835 Craigentinny to Edinburgh) shows as operating 10 December to 13 May, so, here again, I think there is going to continue to be an 0915 Edinburgh to somewhere.

The 0915 Edinburgh to Oxford Road is now showing on 'Live Rail' in respect of the periods 10 Dec to 31 Dec and 18 Feb to 25 Mar, as is the related ECS move Oxford Road to Ardwick. The ECS move from Craigentinny, 0835 to Edinburgh is still showing as operating continuously from 10 Dec to 13 May.

 

[yorksrob]

It does seem a little abrupt the way the Manchester to Leeds service drops to 1 tph after 1926, but it could be said that there are 2 tph between Victoria and Todmorden until 2126. In the other direction (where you're let down slightly more gently) there are 2 tph between Leeds and Hebden Bridge until 2135. That's not much consolation if you're wanting to travel over the Todmorden to Hebden Bridge section (which I suspect you are), but how many passengers travel over that section, late at night? I suspect, not very many.

19:26 isn't late at night.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

It does seem a little abrupt the way the Manchester to Leeds service drops to 1 tph after 1926,


?

Which is exactly why I now very rarely use the train for going to work in Manchester from Hebden Bridge. My shift times mean it is very rare I get away before 1916, and the hourly service, which stops at all stations really is no good and very off putting. It means I would often be waiting an hour for a train, and then that train takes around 50 minutes to get to Hebden Bridge. It is far quicker and more convenient - and to be honest significantly more pleasant - to drive.

 

[Bovverboy]

​

​

One Sunday addition from 10 December which hasn't been mentioned is a 1957 Edinburgh to Manchester Airport. This adds to my feeling that there is going to be a c.2000Su Airport-Edinburgh, but it still hasn't appeared.

Ignore what I said above, the 1957Su ex-EDB has existed for years, what confused me (this is something I'd forgotten) is the fact that the 1600 MIA-EDB splits at Edinburgh into the 1957 return and also 1947 ECS to Craigentinny.
There are, however, early and late additions to the Saturday timetable from December. There's an 0421 GLC-MIA (this replaces the 0724 from Lancaster) and 0457 MAN-GLC, while at the other end of the day there's an 1847 GLC-MIA and 1858 MIA-EDB. Note that the 1858 goes to Edinburgh rather than Glasgow (as might have been expected) and the ECS move is accordingly to Corkerhill not Craigentinny.
The above changes bring the Saturday service into line with that for Monday to Friday, except for the very last journeys.

 

[Confused147]

Not sure its already been mentioned but Blackpool north becomes a 24 hour station from December with either a bus arrival or departure between 23:00 and 05:00. The 05:15 Blackpool to Euston service which hasn't run since May and looks likely to continue throughout the Winter TT.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/BPN/2017/12/22/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt


Btw , lovin the new look site, notifications, log in panel, etc

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Any new destinations for IC companies?

 

[mikestone1952]

No.
;
Virgin East Coast have issued a press release announcing the running of the semi-fasts on Saturdays.
;
Judging from lack of progress noted last week between Bolton and Salford I don't see the 07.22 Crewe-Bolton going electric at the timetable change - and have my doubts about the February diversion of TPE services.

 

[absolutelymilk]

No.
;
Virgin East Coast have issued a press release announcing the running of the semi-fasts on Saturdays.
;
Judging from lack of progress noted last week between Bolton and Salford I don't see the 07.22 Crewe-Bolton going electric at the timetable change - and have my doubts about the February diversion of TPE services.

https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/national/seat-boost-to-virgins-east-coast-mainline-service

Here's the link for anyone who wants to read more

Virgin has announced the biggest increase in Saturday services since electrification of the East Coast Mainline route in 1990.

A total of 24 additional services are set to open up 12,574 more seats for customers in December, with Leeds, York and Newark to benefit.

The increase is the biggest boost to Saturday services in more than 25 years.

I wonder how they have enough trains to do this? Have they just cut back on maintenance now that the Azumas are coming in soon?

 

[pacenotes]

West Drayton is getting another train in the 8am to 9am slot to bring it up to 4PH which I always found silly having a 30-minute gap between services at rush hour.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

West Drayton is getting another train in the 8am to 9am slot to bring it up to 4PH which I always found silly having a 30-minute gap between services at rush hour.

Well most suburban SWR destinations have 2tph peak services!

 

[30907]

Well most suburban SWR destinations have 2tph peak services!

For most read a minority.

 

[Bovverboy]

https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/national/seat-boost-to-virgins-east-coast-mainline-service

Here's the link for anyone who wants to read more



I wonder how they have enough trains to do this? Have they just cut back on maintenance now that the Azumas are coming in soon?

If you click on the link you've provided you'll see that Virgin say that even with the proposed increase there'll still be fewer trains running on a Saturday compared to Monday to Friday, so finding the extra trains shouldn't be a problem. Unless Virgin is currently in the habit of doing much of its maintenance on a Saturday, which is unlikely.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

If you click on the link you've provided you'll see that Virgin say that even with the proposed increase there'll still be fewer trains running on a Saturday compared to Monday to Friday, so finding the extra trains shouldn't be a problem. Unless Virgin is currently in the habit of doing much of its maintenance on a Saturday, which is unlikely.

A lot of maintenance gets done at the weekend as there are slightly fewer trains running, usually due to NR engineering works, which helps them get the sets in for longer, also there aren't as many super early starts on a Saturday or Sunday either which gives the sets slightly longer on depot.

 

[Bovverboy]

A lot of maintenance gets done at the weekend as there are slightly fewer trains running, usually due to NR engineering works, which helps them get the sets in for longer, also there aren't as many super early starts on a Saturday or Sunday either which gives the sets slightly longer on depot.

Am I to presume that the various maintenance facilities aren't fully utilised midweek?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Am I to presume that the various maintenance facilities aren't fully utilised midweek?

They can only do a certain amount of it, as the majority of the fleet is out and about bringing in the money. Obviously you'll get some in during the day for some light maintenance and when they do conk out in service and they may swap out a unit that is due or has a potentially serious problem that have just been done.

On board monitoring systems tell them what's going on and usually they get the sets swapped before it goes kaput.