Major Disruption At Nottingham Due To Fire (12/01)

[Stampy]

For those unsure of the layout the following is the current state of play as far as I understand it

Bus = Where the Rail Replacement Buses run from
Nat Ex = The temporary National Express Stops (temporary due to Broadmarsh Bus Station Demolition)
L (in Green) = Lifts open to passengers
L (in Red) = Lift Closed to Passengers
Yellow Shaded Area = Area opened to passengers to enter the station but with shops/ticket machines unavailable due to IT and Water Failures
Red Shared Area = Fire damaged area closed to passengers
Green Shared Area = Part of station operating 100% normally
Orange Shared Area = No idea of the current status - I believe this is probably closed though?
The Public Footpath to the east of the car park, along platform 7, and over the central bridge should now be accessible?

Yes the public footpath between Queens Road and Platform 7 is open (or at least it was at 8pm when I left)

The orange part is still shut, as you can ONLY access the car park via P7 and the footpath back to Queens Road.

 

[Andy Pacer]

I can only imagine what a culture shock it is for them to actually have passengers to deal with.

Then again, the Leicester - Lincoln service is terminating at Loughborough like it used to do, despite EMP having the necessary trackwork for a reversal. If it's still easier, almost 10 years after it was built, to get to Nottingham and East Midlands Airport from Loughborough than a station 7 miles closer, that tells you all you need to know about the usefulness of East Midlands Parkway. It's about as useful as a fart in a sandwich.

I was more of the opinion that the Leicester service was terminating at Loughborough so that the single unit can keep shuttling on time (LEI - LBO - LEI works quite well in an hour rounder, carrying on to East Mids Parkway would require an extra unit and could cause a conflict on the single line section). There was a unit stranded at the Leicester end early in the morning so it may have been this one that carried on for a while.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Having had a chat with a few colleagues it seems the damage in the booking office is quite severe. The private areas behind the public front have seen the worst of the fire, with printers, cables, computers etc melting, the rest covered in soot and water. A lot of personal items in lockers are likely destroyed including sentimental items like letters of praise for staff. It's all very sad.

 

[Class 170101]

6 is the other side of the island from 4 and 5 so accessed by the same stairs and lifts. 7 is a side platform with its own set of steps off each bridge, lift from the main building, and also an exit to the street at the far end of the car park. At one time 7 (which was then numbered 6) was rarely used and only accessible via the "centre" bridge or a direct route through the then car park.

My guess is that 6 and 7 were unusable because their tracks pass directly beneath a part of the building that was affected by the fire, but last time I looked 6 was back in use so the structural engineers must have given the OK for trains to pass under this.

Edit: Just checked again, all platforms now appear to be in use with a full service running, temporary toilets near platform 7 and lifts to platforms 1-6 but not 7. The platform 7 lift is very close to the seat of the fire. Still very limited ticketing facilities.

Presumably though the lift to / from Platform 7 isn't so critical as MIPs can be sent via the side exit and round to the open part of the station to reach Platforms 1 to 6 via their respective lifts?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well that's on of there issues - the IT Infrastructure has been destroyed so no PIS, no card payments, no PA... Wonder if a few staff have ended up across the road at Loxley House?

I must admit to being slightly surprised the modern PIS screens aren't independent and just Internet connected and managed that way, so if the wifi went down, you could just get a mifi device in to get them going again.

 

[edwin_m]

Presumably though the lift to / from Platform 7 isn't so critical as MIPs can be sent via the side exit and round to the open part of the station to reach Platforms 1 to 6 via their respective lifts?

It's quite a long way at present. Avoiding the fire-damaged area means going out of the front of the station, round the corner onto Queens Road and all the way to the other end of the car park. Footway is probably too narrow for some golf-buggy type solution as well, with the risk of people having to step off into the busy Queens Road traffic lanes. Also it appears the temporary toilets are off platform 7 too, so could be quite a few MIPs will be needing to take that route.

 

[Class 170101]

It's quite a long way at present. Avoiding the fire-damaged area means going out of the front of the station, round the corner onto Queens Road and all the way to the other end of the car park. Footway is probably too narrow for some golf-buggy type solution as well, with the risk of people having to step off into the busy Queens Road traffic lanes. Also it appears the temporary toilets are off platform 7 too, so could be quite a few MIPs will be needing to take that route.

Certainly so but better than nothing at this stage.

 

[bunnahabhain]

It's quite a long way at present. Avoiding the fire-damaged area means going out of the front of the station, round the corner onto Queens Road and all the way to the other end of the car park. Footway is probably too narrow for some golf-buggy type solution as well, with the risk of people having to step off into the busy Queens Road traffic lanes. Also it appears the temporary toilets are off platform 7 too, so could be quite a few MIPs will be needing to take that route.

They're for staff only and require a key to enter.

 

[kevjs]

I must admit to being slightly surprised the modern PIS screens aren't independent and just Internet connected and managed that way, so if the wifi went down, you could just get a mifi device in to get them going again.

The MiFi devices would be a bit of a pain to connect - I imagine all the PIS are connected via Ethernet with no WiFi on board, so not only would you need a wired LTE router and somewhere to power it, as well as running network and power cables to it (as we can assume the central patch panel is damaged and unusable) you'd then need to secure the cables and run them round the station. Many would be more than 100meters from where-ever you place the LTE Router offering additional issues. No where near the top of the priority list I'd imagine. Actually surprised they aren't powered over Ethernet to be honest!

 

[edwin_m]

As far as I can see there is now no indication of any disruption on East Midlands Trains websites. There's nothing on the disruptions page of National Rail but the station details page is still reporting ticket machines as cash only, and temporary toilets with no mention of them not being available to passengers. Does this mean step-free access is are now available? I think potential passenger deserve a more prominent warning than this. Feedback sent to EMT to this effect.

 

[Andrewh32]

As far as I can see there is now no indication of any disruption on East Midlands Trains websites. There's nothing on the disruptions page of National Rail but the station details page is still reporting ticket machines as cash only, and temporary toilets with no mention of them not being available to passengers. Does this mean step-free access is are now available? I think potential passenger deserve a more prominent warning than this. Feedback sent to EMT to this effect.

I read a page not long ago which was a link from the twitter feed which seemed pretty comprehensive

 

[Crossover]

The MiFi devices would be a bit of a pain to connect - I imagine all the PIS are connected via Ethernet with no WiFi on board, so not only would you need a wired LTE router and somewhere to power it, as well as running network and power cables to it (as we can assume the central patch panel is damaged and unusable) you'd then need to secure the cables and run them round the station. Many would be more than 100meters from where-ever you place the LTE Router offering additional issues. No where near the top of the priority list I'd imagine. Actually surprised they aren't powered over Ethernet to be honest!

I would imagine the boards will require far more power than PoE is able to provide. I would agree that the PIS system (certainly on the concourse) is unlikely to have WiFi capability and be hard wired to a central location

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would imagine the boards will require far more power than PoE is able to provide. I would agree that the PIS system (certainly on the concourse) is unlikely to have WiFi capability and be hard wired to a central location

Quite probably. Though it wouldn't at all surprise me if future generations of kit aren't completely standalone and communicating via Wifi, with data all cloud-based.

 

[Crossover]

I’m not convinced. WiFi isn’t completely infallible and is still slower than hard wired. You’ve got to get power to them anyway so running a network link to them isn’t a huge task for a big install. I think a lot of periphery stations may use mobile data as some have antennae, but for a main station, I doubt it will be. Bear in mind that even with WiFi you generally would have it linked back to somewhere that has a router and if that place is disrupted, you’ll still have no data, wherever it is hosted.

 

[jon0844]

Indeed, the toilets referred to are accessed from the Southern Concourse (ie from outside the ticket gates). They are 'pay to enter'.
They are shown on this schematic from the EMT website on the pages numbered 12 and 16 in the PDF:
https://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/Global/Documents/Nottingham Station LP guide updated for website.pdf

I was in Nottingham before Christmas and used these toilets. It was around 10-10.30pm. They were rather unpleasant because of the people hanging around, some of whom came in with us and then later let someone else in with loads of possessions (I assume they were homeless). Two went into one cubicle and started smoking. There didn't appear to be any staff around to tell, and at the time I thought it wasn't my business to as it was somewhat cold outside.

Perhaps they have ongoing issues in these toilets? I should also add that I don't want to falsely accuse anyone of starting the fire by generalising, but I would seek to use facilities 'rail side' there in the future.

 

[Raul_Duke]

I was in Nottingham before Christmas and used these toilets. It was around 10-10.30pm. They were rather unpleasant because of the people hanging around, some of whom came in with us and then later let someone else in with loads of possessions (I assume they were homeless). Two went into one cubicle and started smoking. There didn't appear to be any staff around to tell, and at the time I thought it wasn't my business to as it was somewhat cold outside.

Perhaps they have ongoing issues in these toilets? I should also add that I don't want to falsely accuse anyone of starting the fire by generalising, but I would seek to use facilities 'rail side' there in the future.

Something like that maybe worth a Text to BTP: 61016

 

[robbeech]

I’m not convinced. WiFi isn’t completely infallible and is still slower than hard wired. You’ve got to get power to them anyway so running a network link to them isn’t a huge task for a big install. I think a lot of periphery stations may use mobile data as some have antennae, but for a main station, I doubt it will be. Bear in mind that even with WiFi you generally would have it linked back to somewhere that has a router and if that place is disrupted, you’ll still have no data, wherever it is hosted.

I’ve installed entire theme park ride systems that are entirely Wi-fi so it’s not lacking in anything in the speed department for what is comparatively a few kB of data. Reliability over a noriceable distance whilst not being ludicrously expensive is what will get them to reach for the reel of cable and having to power it as you say requires a cable run. Of course we then run into the problems of whether we are allowed LV mains cables in the same place as network cables.

 

[jon0844]

Something like that maybe worth a Text to BTP: 61016

I possibly should have done, but I'll be honest - it was late and we needed to find our hotel. I had a 5 year old over tired. Had there been a visible member of staff, I'd have likely said something but there wasn't (I have no doubt staff were about, but not standing near the ticket hall waiting for the likes of me).

It was the first week of December so unlikely to have any connection, other than the need for better security and monitoring of the area. Given I don't know the actual cause, I may be barking up the wrong tree anyway.

 

[whhistle]

Wrong.

Perhaps I should have added that "based on my experience" - as far as I was aware, all TOC ticket issuings use TheTrainLine's back office administration to process the tickets, hence needing to send them to Edinburgh to get a refund.
Just like the black suitcase on the booking system that means the user MUST use the original card tht was used to purchase the tickets - only certain train companies have access to this system.

But then just saying "wrong" brings nothing to the conversation.

 

[LowLevel]

As far as I can see there is now no indication of any disruption on East Midlands Trains websites. There's nothing on the disruptions page of National Rail but the station details page is still reporting ticket machines as cash only, and temporary toilets with no mention of them not being available to passengers. Does this mean step-free access is are now available? I think potential passenger deserve a more prominent warning than this. Feedback sent to EMT to this effect.

The public toilet block should be there shortly (ie today) if not already and there's plenty of trains standing around with toilets generally if it's required desperately, plenty or staff around to point out appropriate ones.

Step free access is available to all platforms including platform 7 via a bit of a detour.

The booking office is likely to be shut for the foreseeable future so revenue staff are helping where available and it's being made as clear as possible that purchasing tickets on the train is fine as well.

 

[kevjs]

I’m not convinced. WiFi isn’t completely infallible and is still slower than hard wired. You’ve got to get power to them anyway so running a network link to them isn’t a huge task for a big install. I think a lot of periphery stations may use mobile data as some have antennae, but for a main station, I doubt it will be. Bear in mind that even with WiFi you generally would have it linked back to somewhere that has a router and if that place is disrupted, you’ll still have no data, wherever it is hosted.

The bus departure boards show that LTE is less than perfect (although in this case it's because the aerials keep getting nicked)....

In any case local media are reporting the PIS is up and running again. Guessing that getting the TVM's online will be sooner rather than later, with station staff assisting customers on them (as they frequently did anyway). That would get all the passenger facing stuff back to some form of normality.

As for MiFi - try using 4G round the station - it's very overloaded and doesn't work very well. Assuming the on-station WiFi is down too it's probably more overloaded than normal.

 

[Jordeh]

Perhaps I should have added that "based on my experience" - as far as I was aware, all TOC ticket issuings use TheTrainLine's back office administration to process the tickets, hence needing to send them to Edinburgh to get a refund.
Just like the black suitcase on the booking system that means the user MUST use the original card tht was used to purchase the tickets - only certain train companies have access to this system.

But then just saying "wrong" brings nothing to the conversation.

There’s no ‘perhaps’ about it, you explicitly stated as a fact that all TOCs use the train line.

The reality is you are ‘wrong’ whether it adds to the discussion or not, it’s a shame you don’t even have the humility to apologise.

 

[LowLevel]

The bus departure boards show that LTE is less than perfect (although in this case it's because the aerials keep getting nicked)....

In any case local media are reporting the PIS is up and running again. Guessing that getting the TVM's online will be sooner rather than later, with station staff assisting customers on them (as they frequently did anyway). That would get all the passenger facing stuff back to some form of normality.

As for MiFi - try using 4G round the station - it's very overloaded and doesn't work very well. Assuming the on-station WiFi is down too it's probably more overloaded than normal.

I may be wrong but I wouldn't expect to see the TVMs running properly for a while. The back end of the booking office and comms rooms are the most heavily damaged part of the station. There's very limited telephony and comms anywhere. The front of the station has lights and some limited supplies to the Co Op etc but this is being powered by a generator.

 

[hawk1911]

Latest from British Transport Police:

As the investigation into the blaze at Nottingham Station continues, British Transport Police would like to appeal to members of the public who may have been in or around the station between 10pm on Thursday 11 and 8am on Friday 12 January.

Leading the investigation is Detective Inspector Granville Sellers, he said: “In particular we would like to ask for footage that may have been captured during this period – either mobile or dash cam. If you were in the area and may have been using either type of device we would urge you to come forward. This footage may be vital to our on-going enquires.”

If you were in or around the following locations and have any footage please contact BTP on 0800 40 50 40 or text 61016, quoting reference number 85 of 12/1/18.

Locations: Carrington Street, Queens Rd, Station St, Trent Street, Sheriffs Way, Summer Leys Lane, Arkwright Street, London Rd

http://media.btp.police.uk/r/15055/update__fire_at_nottingham_station

 

[dosxuk]

Quite probably. Though it wouldn't at all surprise me if future generations of kit aren't completely standalone and communicating via Wifi

Why? Cable is cheaper, more reliable, has more bandwidth and a lot easier to install and manage.

Yeah, in the event your comms room is burnt down, you will have a problem, but the fire could just as easily affected the power supply to the screens. And it's not like there's a shortage of people who can install network cabling to get it back running.

with data all cloud-based.

Which means if (for any reason - fire, flood, BT incompetence) you loose your internet connection, all your PIS systems go blank. If you've got local servers then unless you've got major problems at the station itself, your systems will carry on working.

 

[kevjs]

And the ticket machines on the main concourse are fixed

https://twitter.com/EMTrains/status/952988953573027840

 

[thenorthern]

Regarding Internet connections for things its normally got to be to a certain standard so that its less prone to crashing, also it may have to be encrypted in a certain way to stop people hacking into it.

 

[LowLevel]

Spoke too soon - they've managed to get most of the TVMs and the front CIS screens up and running again. The gateline should be back in use tomorrow as well and a portable toilet facility is open for the public.

ETA for water supplies is still Wednesday as far as I know.

 

[Trainfan344]

Have any pictures been released off the backstage areas where the fire was at its worst?

 

[Mugby]

I'm at a loss to imagine what could be regarded as combustible material in a toilet (except loo paper) Also, a fairly new toilet should surely consist of mostly non-flammable materials which you'd think would be very difficult to ignite.
Even if paper was used, it must have taken a while to set light to any interior fittings - and why weren't any smoke alarms activated?