Northern timetable plan for May 2018

[Halish Railway]

Is it known yet whether Northern will use 195s for the Clitheroe services?

No, the 195's are only planned for diesel Northern Connect services. I have heard some rumours though that the Clitheroe/Blackburn to Manchester trains will become 158's (All being refurbished to Connect standards).

 

[Philip]

No, the 195's are only planned for diesel Northern Connect services. I have heard some rumours though that the Clitheroe/Blackburn to Manchester trains will become 158's (All being refurbished to Connect standards).

I've read this too. I do think any surplus 158s would be better off replacing 195s on any Calder Valley diagrams which don't hit the epicentre in either rush hour. The 195 seems a better solution than the 158 for the remaining diesel services through Bolton too.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Personally I always thought the "sports car" acceleration sound was quite cool.

I am also a 323 traction motor advocate.

 

[northwichcat]

No, the 195's are only planned for diesel Northern Connect services. I have heard some rumours though that the Clitheroe/Blackburn to Manchester trains will become 158's (All being refurbished to Connect standards).

The platform lengthening plans indicate Northern plan to use 3 car sets with 23m carriages on the Clitheroe line. However, a Northern manager has indicated there could be some early/late class 195 workings between Manchester and Blackburn.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The platform lengthening plans indicate Northern plan to use 3 car sets with 23m carriages on the Clitheroe line. However, a Northern manager has indicated there could be some early/late class 195 workings between Manchester and Blackburn.

3-car sets with 23m carriages could of course be Class 158s, indeed, I'm sure I saw another post on here suggesting that is exactly what they will be.

 

[Philip]

3-car sets with 23m carriages could of course be Class 158s, indeed, I'm sure I saw another post on here suggesting that is exactly what they will be.

The door layout of the 195s would probably be more suited for Bolton corridor services though. Since 158s will also be refurbished to Connect standards I guess there is no reason why 195s can't be used instead of 158s for Clitheroe services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The door layout of the 195s would probably be more suited for Bolton corridor services though.

True (and also true of just about all other Northern services, to be honest).

One thing that is interesting about 195s and the EMU equivalent, FWIW, is that the doors actually are at thirds like older units, rather than at about 1/4 and 3/4 as on most third-generation DMUs and EMUs with that layout.

1/4 and 3/4 makes more sense, as it evens out the number of seats each door serves to half of the centre section (1/4 of the coach) plus the end section (another 1/4).

 

[northwichcat]

1/4 and 3/4 makes more sense, as it evens out the number of seats each door serves

That's presuming passengers don't walk up or down the train prior to alighting and ignoring the fact there's fewer seats in some sections due the toilet, disabled space and luggage space.

 

[johntea]

Have heard a rumour via a conductor via a passenger on Twitter that the 17:16 Leeds to Goole will no longer call at Woodlesford from May 2018, instead the 16:59 Leeds to Castleford will make the call.

 

[northwichcat]

If a post on wnxx is to be believed Northern are to get 3 x 153s from GWR by May as well as the 13 x 150s.

 

[YorkshireBear]

If a post on wnxx is to be believed Northern are to get 3 x 153s from GWR by May as well as the 13 x 150s.

Interesting I did not expect Northern to take on any extra 153s... surely just a temporary measure?

 

[northwichcat]

Interesting I did not expect Northern to take on any extra 153s... surely just a temporary measure?

It doesn't look like they'll get the 150s from WMR by May so maybe it's a temporary measure until WMR get their D-Trains to replace the 230s?

 

[YorkshireBear]

It doesn't look like they'll get the 150s from WMR by May so maybe it's a temporary measure until WMR get their D-Trains to replace the 230s?

Possibly... It also might be in response to electrification delays and those being only DMUs available. I can see many DMUs being snapped up by Northern if the delays continue with electrification (and the 769 project). With 185s and GA units steadily becoming available over the next 2-5 years.

 

[xotGD]

Have heard a rumour via a conductor via a passenger on Twitter that the 17:16 Leeds to Goole will no longer call at Woodlesford from May 2018, instead the 16:59 Leeds to Castleford will make the call.

While this looks sensible in terms of rebalancing passenger numbers between the two services, it is tough for Woodlesford residents who can't leave work until 5 o'clock.

 

[yorksrob]

While this looks sensible in terms of rebalancing passenger numbers between the two services, it is tough for Woodlesford residents who can't leave work until 5 o'clock.

It'll also be tough on passengers on the 17:37 Hallam line stopper when half the population of Woodlesford tries to cram on it.

 

[xotGD]

It'll also be tough on passengers on the 17:37 Hallam line stopper when half the population of Woodlesford tries to cram on it.

They could always catch the 17.16 and change at Cas!

Basically, there isn't enough capacity on the Leeds - Castleford stretch to meet demand.

 

[yorksrob]

They could always catch the 17.16 and change at Cas!

Basically, there isn't enough capacity on the Leeds - Castleford stretch to meet demand.

Well, the route isn't the problem so much as the lack of rolling stock at that time.

Another option might be to stop the 17:40 at Woodlesford, but even that's quite busy. You could fit more standing though.

 

[Adam0984]

We was on about this earlier and the Goole has lost its 153 so was necessary to put the Woodlesford call on the 1659. What happens in May is anyone’s guess as it’s retimed so might not have the same problem. The 153 has been used to attach to the 1723 Man Vic which has lost its 142 which has gone onto strengthen the 1718 which since the timetable change was reduced from a 3 car 158 to a 150.
So I thought about how reducing the number of carriages on the Goole was a silly idea so compared it to the Harrogate line in the peak hours (1601 to 1829) and the number of carriages.
Harrogate line gets 31 carriages
Leeds to Castleford gets 14 of which only 7 continue to Knottingley and beyond

 

[Halish Railway]

Leeds to Castleford gets 14 of which only 7 continue to Knottingley and beyond

Remember there is the x:28 Leeds to Knottingley via Wakefield trains which will take the Pontefract and Knottingley commuters who are fed up of going via Castleford away.

 

[johntea]

What is going on with the 07:38 Castleford to Leeds at the moment? Must have been cancelled at least twice a week for the past 3 weeks or so now, I feel for the poor people waiting at Woodlesford as they certainly ain't all fitting on the next service!

Also, a while away yet but I can see Glasshoughton station shooting up in popularity come 2021 when the new rugby ground / retail park opens at Glasshoughton!

 

[Spartacus]

Succession of unit failures. I think it suffers because it's only the one service that gets cancelled, rather than two as it's ECS from Leeds and is only a short out and back.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Have heard a rumour via a conductor via a passenger on Twitter that the 17:16 Leeds to Goole will no longer call at Woodlesford from May 2018, instead the 16:59 Leeds to Castleford will make the call.

The 16:59 is already showing in journey planners as stopping at Woodlesford in the current timetable.. I wonder when that changed, as it previously ran non stop to Castleford?

http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/LDS/WDS/today/1645/dep

 

[nw-sparks]

The 16:59 is already showing in journey planners as stopping at Woodlesford in the current timetable.. I wonder when that changed, as it previously ran non stop to Castleford?

The change was added to the database on 7 February to apply from Monday 12 February. See http://www.charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/liverail/train/12472072

 

[Adam0984]

What is going on with the 07:38 Castleford to Leeds at the moment? Must have been cancelled at least twice a week for the past 3 weeks or so now, I feel for the poor people waiting at Woodlesford as they certainly ain't all fitting on the next service!

Also, a while away yet but I can see Glasshoughton station shooting up in popularity come 2021 when the new rugby ground / retail park opens at Glasshoughton!

It was used Tuesday for the 0740 Leeds to Sheffield Express and 0850 back, this is another train that is regularly cancelled or formed of the wrong class of train

 

[northernchris]

We was on about this earlier and the Goole has lost its 153 so was necessary to put the Woodlesford call on the 1659. What happens in May is anyone’s guess as it’s retimed so might not have the same problem. The 153 has been used to attach to the 1723 Man Vic which has lost its 142 which has gone onto strengthen the 1718 which since the timetable change was reduced from a 3 car 158 to a 150.
So I thought about how reducing the number of carriages on the Goole was a silly idea so compared it to the Harrogate line in the peak hours (1601 to 1829) and the number of carriages.
Harrogate line gets 31 carriages
Leeds to Castleford gets 14 of which only 7 continue to Knottingley and beyond

The 1718 should never have had its capacity reduced, but fair play to Northern for realising their error. With the ex GWR 150s now arriving the available fleet must have increased, and I would hope the priority is to restore capacity to pre-December levels

 

[xotGD]

The 1718 should never have had its capacity reduced, but fair play to Northern for realising their error. With the ex GWR 150s now arriving the available fleet must have increased, and I would hope the priority is to restore capacity to pre-December levels

The Goole was a 142 today. Ouch!

Earlier in the day there was a 158 on the diagram but it got swapped.

 

[Halish Railway]

Different to the Woodlesford situation, but I can't get over how many stops have been added to the Blackpool to Manchester Airport service. It seems more like a semi-fast working alongside the Blackpool to Macclesfield service (and on a 319 - ouch!). Why have stops at Layton and Kirkham been added? Yes I know that Blackpools Victoria service has been cut back to Preston (and why?), but why not give these stops to the Macclesfield semi-fast? Is it just an on train capacity issue?

So much for the Northern Connect "Fast Inter-urban Network".

 

[northernchris]

The Goole was a 142 today. Ouch!

Earlier in the day there was a 158 on the diagram but it got swapped.

That's ridiculous! I've seen the doors locked a few minutes before departure time many times on that service as its so full. Although I seem to think 158s aren't cleared for Knottingley-Goole?

Yes I know that Blackpools Victoria service has been cut back to Preston (and why?), but why not give these stops to the Macclesfield semi-fast? Is it just an on train capacity issue?

So much for the Northern Connect "Fast Inter-urban Network".

I thought the cutback to Preston was to allow the service to be operated by 2 units - albeit with very tight turnarounds

 

[Adam0984]

That's ridiculous! I've seen the doors locked a few minutes before departure time many times on that service as its so full. Although I seem to think 158s aren't cleared for Knottingley-Goole?

They got cleared about 2 years ago after one accidentally got taken there and it didn’t spontaneously combust or cause major damage so the powers that be did the official clearance tests and they’ve been cleared since

 

[northwichcat]

Different to the Woodlesford situation, but I can't get over how many stops have been added to the Blackpool to Manchester Airport service. It seems more like a semi-fast working alongside the Blackpool to Macclesfield service (and on a 319 - ouch!). Why have stops at Layton and Kirkham been added? Yes I know that Blackpools Victoria service has been cut back to Preston (and why?), but why not give these stops to the Macclesfield semi-fast? Is it just an on train capacity issue?

Apart from the fact Blackpool to Macclesfield won't happen at the May timetable change now because of the wires not being ready, I think based on the provisional diagrams there wasn't room for additional calls on Blackpool to Macclesfield without decreasing the recovery time or using an extra diagram.

319s on Manchester Airport to Blackpool will only be temporary. Northern don't yet have any EMUs which meet the Northern Connect standard - 323s wouldn't exactly be ideal either.

So much for the Northern Connect "Fast Inter-urban Network".

I'm not sure that's really the aim. Calder Valley services aren't exactly fast interurban services and neither will Leeds to Lincoln be by the time it'll be the local stopper between Sheffield and Lincoln. I think the aim is more that the rolling stock is of a standard comparable to what the TPE 185s currently offer.