Class 314 Withdrawals

[Southsider]

They did occasional 9 cars but back then staff just shouted to passengers not to get out any door that wasn't in the platform. Nowadays people would just fall out the train looking at their smartphones. Then sue Scotrail.

Quite a few of the Cathcart Circle platforms had 9 car stop signs installed when the 303s were first introduced, Crosshill was without IIRC. Since then the platforms have been shortened hence the walk at track level to the Niddrie Road exit at Queens Park.

 

[hexagon789]

Quite a few of the Cathcart Circle platforms had 9 car stop signs installed when the 303s were first introduced, Crosshill was without IIRC. Since then the platforms have been shortened hence the walk at track level to the Niddrie Road exit at Queens Park.

That makes sense as some of the stations do seem to have platforms longer than 6 cars but not the full 9, often a 6-car stops and there's room either end at a couple of stations as though they were longer and shortened a bit but not always right down to 6 cars. The remains of part of the original platform lengthcan be seen at Pollokshields East, the original ramp is still in situ with then a gap past the Ticket Office to where the platform now starts/ends.

 

[route101]

They've definitely done Springburn, but I'm pretty sure none have been to Cumbernauld, either from Springburn or north of Coatbridge FLT. They will have been to Whifflet, just almost certainly not via Carmyle! They've been everywhere else in SPT-land including Larkhall on extended Cathcart/Newton jobs during engineering in the 2010s (possibly 2017?)

They used to go to Lanark too . Not sure about the Carstairs peak services.

 

[hexagon789]

They used to go to Lanark too . Not sure about the Carstairs peak services.

Definitely been to Lanark and Larkhall, that I'm 100% sure of. Carstairs no idea, but very possible.

 

[Strathclyder]

Definitely been to Lanark and Larkhall, that I'm 100% sure of. Carstairs no idea, but very possible.

They made it down to Carstairs while on driver training/type training, if this is anything to go by. They doubtlessly made it down there on occasion with the peak-hour services in lieu of a 303/311. It's just that very few, if any pictures of it exist lol

 

[hexagon789]

They made it down to Carstairs while on driver training/type training, if this is anything to go by. They doubtlessly made it down to Carstairs on occasion with the peak-hour services in lieu of a 303/311. It's just that very few, if any pictures of it exist lol

Initial driver training on the 314s is definitely before my time!

But an interesting shot nevertheless.

 

[The_Engineer]

A retired Brush Engineer, who designed the Class 314 traction kit, attended some of the test runs with the first Brush equipped train in Scotland, and tells me at least one got as far as Carlisle as part of type testing. He believes Beattock was used for "hill starts" and half motors cut out to prove it met specified traction performance. He's got a good memory!!

 

[hexagon789]

A retired Brush Engineer, who designed the Class 314 traction kit, attended some of the test runs with the first Brush equipped train in Scotland, and tells me at least one got as far as Carlisle as part of type testing. He believes Beattock was used for "hill starts" and half motors cut out to prove it met specified traction performance. He's got a good memory!!

A mere 440 hp to get up Beattock is quite impressive

 

[The_Engineer]

A mere 440 hp to get up Beattock is quite impressive

As far as I can recall, from doing similar work on Class 507s, the train had to start and keep moving on a specified gradient on half motors. And (I think) do three starts over a specified time period and not exceed design temperatures. As a test train it was instrumented up by BR Derby test engineers to do that. Yes, it would have struggled to get any decent speed! On Class 507s, we did these tests on the steep bank up out of Moorfields going north onto the old elevated section towards Sandhills.

 

[hexagon789]

And (I think) do three starts over a specified time period and not exceed design temperatures.

I seem to recall reading that they did similar tests with both the APT-P and the Class 91s I think. I think either of those would've fared rather better than a 314! Though presumably it must have managed the tests sucessfully.

 

[Mag_seven]

A retired Brush Engineer, who designed the Class 314 traction kit, attended some of the test runs with the first Brush equipped train in Scotland, and tells me at least one got as far as Carlisle as part of type testing. He believes Beattock was used for "hill starts" and half motors cut out to prove it met specified traction performance. He's got a good memory!!

Was that using the prototype "PEP" unit?

 

[D365]

Was that using the prototype "PEP" unit?

As built the Class 445/446 were DC-only prototypes.

 

[Mag_seven]

As built the Class 445/446 were DC-only prototypes.

Round about 1976 the Southern PEP unit (920001) was converted to AC and undertook trials on the North Clyde lines. I think it was based at Hyndland depot during this time.

 

[D365]

Round about 1976 the Southern PEP unit (920001) was converted to AC and undertook trials on the North Clyde lines. I think it was based at Hyndland depot during this time.

Ah right, Wikipedia wasn't too clear on the particular timescales of that conversion.

 

[Mag_seven]

Ah right, Wikipedia wasn't too clear on the particular timescales of that conversion.

I'm sure I have a picture of it in a book somewhere - will try and dig it out.

 

[scotraildriver]

When the Glasgow suburban network was electrified and the class 303's introduced most, if not all, of the network was "future proofed" to accommodate 9 car trains. If you look at alot of the signals around Glasgow they are some way off the ends of the platforms, this was to enable the platforms to be extended without having to move signals etc. Hyndland is a good example. Signals well out and a big space between the tracks for a platform. Pretty forward thinking at the time.

 

[hexagon789]

When the Glasgow suburban network was electrified and the class 303's introduced most, if not all, of the network was "future proofed" to accommodate 9 car trains. If you look at alot of the signals around Glasgow they are some way off the ends of the platforms, this was to enable the platforms to be extended without having to move signals etc. Hyndland is a good example. Signals well out and a big space between the tracks for a platform. Pretty forward thinking at the time.

Indeed, shame we still haven't got 9-car platforms though!

 

[route101]

Definitely been to Lanark and Larkhall, that I'm 100% sure of. Carstairs no idea, but very possible.

Yeah remember seeing them on Lanark services , Larkhall more recently . Interestingly they have East Kilbride on the blinds.

 

[class303]

Might be nonsense but seem to remember talk of 9 car 303s to Gourock during the 1999 Tall Ships event in Greenock.

 

[gingertom]

Might be nonsense but seem to remember talk of 9 car 303s to Gourock during the 1999 Tall Ships event in Greenock.

I think you're right.

 

[Highlandspring]

Talking about 314s and 9 cars, it’s worth recording that earlier today 314213 encountered some difficulties between Hawkhead and Crookston while working 2D20 1105 Paisley Canal - Glasgow Central and, for reasons too complicated to go into here, had to be assisted by a 9 car formation made up of 314202, 318267 and 320321. So that was a 12 car in passenger service albeit only very briefly for about half a mile before everyone was detrained at Crookston and the whole lot ran off to Shields.

 

[route101]

Talking about 314s and 9 cars, it’s worth recording that earlier today 314213 encountered some difficulties between Hawkhead and Crookston while working 2D20 1105 Paisley Canal - Glasgow Central and, for reasons too complicated to go into here, had to be assisted by a 9 car formation made up of 314202, 318267 and 320321. So that was a 12 car in passenger service albeit only very briefly for about half a mile before everyone was detrained at Crookston and the whole lot ran off to Shields.

Interesting , are 320s. 334s and 318s cleared for Paisley Canal branch?

 

[Southsider]

Interesting , are 320s. 334s and 318s cleared for Paisley Canal branch?

I believe it's all Scotrail, 3 car EMUS.

 

[route101]

I believe it's all Scotrail, 3 car EMUS.

I see , only seen 314s and less commomly 380s on that Branch .

 

[Southsider]

I see , only seen 314s and less commomly 380s on that Branch .

Apologies, also 4 car. It's covered in this presentation.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://nearyou.imeche.org/docs/default-source/scottish-rd-centre---past-presentations/2012-13/ref-presentation-comp---paisley-canal-electrification---brian-sweeney.ppt?sfvrsn=5&ved=2ahUKEwjB0pK8tIjbAhWLK8AKHeaKBCQQFjAGegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw11_x-7FMItDNE4qqWFvWCg

 

[hexagon789]

Yeah remember seeing them on Lanark services , Larkhall more recently . Interestingly they have East Kilbride on the blinds.

I'd happily have a 314 to EK if the wires were up, presumably this was invisaged at some point.

 

[route101]

I'd happily have a 314 to EK if the wires were up, presumably this was invisaged at some point.

If EK was wired tomorrow not even sure there would be enough EMUS for it . Judging by the powerpoint above , i dont think we will see EK get wired anytime soon.
Been said before but EK needs a better service ,ie later and earlier trains .

 

[hexagon789]

If EK was wired tomorrow not even sure there would be enough EMUS for it . Judging by the powerpoint above , i dont think we will see EK get wired anytime soon.
Been said before but EK needs a better service ,ie later and earlier trains .

I'd argue in favour of electrification but I agree that perhaps more services are a more immediate priority.

There we go, found a use for the 314s - keep them after the 385s are all in service and electrify to EK, Barrhead and Kilmarnock with 314s for traction. Sorted

(The punters'll love that I'm sure! )

 

[prod_pep]

I'd argue in favour of electrification but I agree that perhaps more services are a more immediate priority.

There we go, found a use for the 314s - keep them after the 385s are all in service and electrify to EK, Barrhead and Kilmarnock with 314s for traction. Sorted

I'll settle for that! Going to really miss the 314s.

 

[hexagon789]

I'll settle for that! Going to really miss the 314s.

Ditto, they were my local traction for about 12-13 years. Despite them being rather basic I've never really had a bad thing to say about them, they get the job done essentially.