1st class is there any need for it anymore?

[northernrail2009]

Ive been thinking over the weekend is there any need to have 1st class on trains anymore?

Im asking this as whenever i see a train with 1st class there is very few people in it and i know its makes a lot of money for the TOC but is it not just a waste of seats and when folk cant find a seat in Std class when there are so many seats not being used in 1st class.

Virgin seem to be 1 TOC that have almost a whole train of 1st class and most of them empty!!!

Any views?

 

[Max]

For as long as people are prepared to pay for 1st, TOCs will provide it. It is an excellent earner (think about the actual cost of all those freebies compared with the difference between a STD and 1st ticket!). Regarding the fact that the coaches are quieter, this, for me, is one of the main incentives to upgrade! It's nice to have that extra peace and comfort, particularly on long journeys.

 

[adc82140]

folk cant find a seat in Std class when there are so many seats not being used in 1st class.

Precisely. And that's what sells 1st class seats. I upgraded my season ticket because I was sick of standing, or sitting in a FGW High Capacity HST set with people of varying levels of personal hygiene. 1st class seemed a better product, and at 600 quid to upgrade for the year I think it's worth it for mid distance commuting- morning paper, coffee & Danish, afternoon tea & Evening Standard, 2x1 leather seating, tables at every seat etc. If I'd have seen a crammed 1st class as well, I probably wouldn't have upgraded.

However I don't see the point on suburban routes. The 1st class product should be more than just the seats. Why bother ugrading from a 2x2 seating layout to a..... 2x2 seating layout??

 

[devon_metro]

First Class is far more pleasant, more space and just the general ambience is so much nicer!

 

[SWT Driver]

Personally I'd like to see the back of 1st Class on SWT, there's far greater demand for standard class & I think that Chiltern did the right thing by abolishing it.

It's not as if SWT is an "Inter-City" operator, it's really just a commuter railway, it always has been. The only line I suppose you could say is near it is the WoE line through Salisbury, however by definition "Inter-City" really means fast services, something that SWT's services are most definitely not.

I can drive from home to the WoE quicker than catch one of my TOC's trains down there, in fact it's actually anywhere from 30' upwards quicker to travel via Reading to the West than catch my own TOCs services, they're so slow and I most certainly wouldn't pay any extra to sit in so called 1st class on a noisy 158/159 when I can have an HST to Devon or Somerset.

It should be got rid of from SWT asap.

As for the long distance operators such as FGW, VT, AXC & ICEC or NXEC, then fair enough, but for commuter operations like SWT, Southern, SER, no it's not really worth it.

 

[Aictos]

But what you need to remember is a lot of 1st Class ticket holders on the commuter TOCs are business people who like a bit of peace and quiet to do their work.

Okay, there's nothing really that special nowadays as the first class on the 365s only has reading lights as the only extra compared to when they used to have curtains and a buffet trolley going though the train.

But still, I think there's a demand for it.

As to the FCC 317s, they really ought to have the 1st Class at one end only like the NXEA 317/6s and convert the former 1st Class area to Standard Class.

 

[Dai.]

I think first class on many of the toc's is not needed and should be abolished, I understand if they are big business people travelling in and out of London, I've come across some business people who prefer to be in Standard Class.


In conclusion I don't think there is too much of a need for first class, especially with the recession people will want to pay less and less for their tickets to save money and removing first class free's up some seats in standard which is frankly packed most of the time.

 

[monkey]

...I think it's pointless on commuter trains but deffo needed still for high speed long distance routes. although have to say tpe could do with a proper train, with proper first class section... instead of the joke one they have at the minute...

 

[Mojo]

I support First class on the InterCity routes because let's face it if you could travel on a cramped Voyager in Standard or be driven around in your own car what would you choose?

 

[j0hn0]

I used to commute from Haarlem to Amsterdam every day. "1st" (used very loosely) just means that you don't get garish bright yellow lights and walls, your seat is wider, and you get one, and it isnt made out of plastic.

It was worth every penny not to travel with the great unwashed in the morning and evening. No one liked my loud walkman though.......

IMO Virgin should change all their pendos by one carriage. Is it 3 or 4 coaches which are 1st on a pendo? Every single time I have been on one, I have NEVER seen anyone in first class on a pendo (admittedly this is mostly off peak) and then everyone is squeezed into standard class.

I think it is a vital service, but I feel that there is disproportionate representation going on here and would support a contracting of the service, especially on routes where the trains are practically HALF first class.

Standard class on ICE is better than first on pretty much every train I've ever been on. But man is it expensive!!!

 

[gordonthemoron]

Standard class on ICE is better than first on pretty much every train I've ever been on. But man is it expensive!!!

not with a Bahncard50

 

[Mojo]

I understand that on some Pendolinos all 4 coaches of First can be very full - how about on some trains designating one or two First class coaches where a cheap upgrade can be bought (say £7.50) and you can sit in First but don't get the complimentary food/drink.

 

[yorksrob]

I know it's tempting to get rid of first class, particularly after walking past several empty first class carriages to get to an overcrowded 2nd (as we've all done). The big problem as I see it would be that 1st class is a great asset for attracting the wealthy and powerful to the railway. I know this country is a democracy, however, there is still an 'establishment' making a lot of decisions behind the scenes, and I suspect that those decisions are more likely to be benign for railway users in general if a few of those bigwigs are personally affected by those decisions.
Also, as j0hn0 says, if there is frequently such a large disparity between an empty 1st and crowded 2nd class it may be that the company hasn't got the balance right. I remember at one stage in the nineties, the South Eastern division of NSE downgraded one 1st class compartment in a number of it's VEPs to reflect changing demand. Also, more recently when I've been on Grand Central it's downgraded a 1st class carriage on it's HST's at weekends, so it can be done.

 

[Helvellyn]

Habout on some trains designating one or two First class coaches where a cheap upgrade can be bought (say £7.50) and you can sit in First but don't get the complimentary food/drink.

I wonder if that might be a consistancy issue, in that passengers could get confused as to which trains you could upgrade on or not. Another option might be to try an Off Peak First Class fare, where you could still get the complimentary refreshments. SWT and Southern are trialling this on certain routes (though no refreshments included of course!) and maybe Virgin could look at it as well?

They've also started a trial on certain weekend trains of providing a greater range of complimentary refreshments including, I believe, a cooked breakfast in an effort to encourage more people to take up the Weekend First upgrades. Smart move, and I hope it pays off, as I think that more leisure travellers might be encouraged to do this.

I believe the plans for lengthening the Pendolinos will see Standard Class carriages added and not First? Two extra carriages per set will make a big difference. But in the peaks Virgin can fill those First Class seats from/to the NW, West Midlands and London - it's just they then look very empty Off Peak!

 

[monkey]

^^well advance first tickets can be bought quite cheaply. sometimes they're even cheaper than the standard advance tickets (I've done this on nxec), cos they've all sold out of the cheaper standard advance tickets, so if you're savvy enough, you can get first class quite cheaply. the only thing that bothers me is that you're not allowed to use the first class lounge, but I guess you're not paying full fare...

 

[yorksrob]

^^well advance first tickets can be bought quite cheaply. sometimes they're even cheaper than the standard advance tickets (I've done this on nxec), cos they've all sold out of the cheaper standard advance tickets, so if you're savvy enough, you can get first class quite cheaply. the only thing that bothers me is that you're not allowed to use the first class lounge, but I guess you're not paying full fare...

I find EMT's good for that as well. It's a longer journey to Wakie than on the ECML so you get your moneys worth

 

[monkey]

^^do you mean the emt that goes leeds? yeah that is a bit of trawl, 4 and a bit hours lol... although friends here in leeds have used it and the trains seem to frequently break down meaning you have to change to much slower awful commuter train. I can never be arsed, and nxec, usually aren't that much more expensive, might give it a go some day though...

 

[yorksrob]

Yeah, thats the one. I think they've got it down to about 3 and a half hours now but the route does change (I remember going South through Doncaster once on it ) I usually have the carriage to myself after Sheffield Mid. Never had it break down though.

 

[Old Timer]

I used to commute from Haarlem to Amsterdam every day. "1st" (used very loosely) just means that you don't get garish bright yellow lights and walls, your seat is wider, and you get one, and it isnt made out of plastic.

I have been travelling Schiphol to Amsterdam Centraal quite a lot recently and when I started I thought I would buy a first class ticket as a treat for myself.

Turns out that most of the occupants are on second class tickets, and so far I have not seen any revenue staff.

 

[monkey]

Yeah, thats the one. I think they've got it down to about 3 and a half hours now but the route does change (I remember going South through Doncaster once on it ) I usually have the carriage to myself after Sheffield Mid. Never had it break down though.

...well I don't mind long journeys I guess, cos I quite like just relaxing on the train - sometimes its breather from busy day...but yeah it is just temptiing to take a quicker route for few quid more sometimes - if you have stuff to do...

 

[Oliver]

I have been travelling Schiphol to Amsterdam Centraal quite a lot recently and when I started I thought I would buy a first class ticket as a treat for myself.

Turns out that most of the occupants are on second class tickets, and so far I have not seen any revenue staff.

Their revenue staff wear plain clothes; you'll see them sitting in a group of four before a train starts. When it starts they make a badge visible and work through the train dishing out fines.

 

[Lee_Again]

Until that minority of people realise that the world is full of people other than themselves, you know the sort, there'll always be a case for 1st class; if only to escape them.

For those that walk through empty 1st coaches and moan that standard is full really should seek out some advance 1st fares. They're often not much more than standard (occationally cheaper!) and the ambience is far superior; not withstanding the nice extras. Fortunately, those described above will never travel 1st because they think that they are some how deserving of peace and quiet and a seat. They're the same people who act in an anti-social way and ruin other passengers journies with their loud conversations

I'm off to Edinburgh next weekend and wouldn't even consider going if I had to sit in standard for over 4 hours. The fare is not quite as cheap as last year but still cheaper than a flight once you add on the parking, baggage and transportation costs the other end.

Long live 1st class. If you can't afford it (like I once couldn't), aspire to afford it. Once tried, you'll never go back.

 

[156499]

The only train that removing first class would be an advantage to is a voyager! would actually make them a bit better to travel in! because to be truthful first class in a voyager aint up to much, I honestly prefare Standard class in one, I really don't know where XC get this from 'More legroom' I'm yet to find that extra leg room....

 

[HSTfan!!!]

Although it can be often quiet in the week, I find during the weekends/bank holidays it can get quite busy with FGW, I suppose the weekend first offer is a big player in that, but it's such a nicer environment that it's worth it.

 

[devon_metro]

The only train that removing first class would be an advantage to is a voyager! would actually make them a bit better to travel in! because to be truthful first class in a voyager aint up to much, I honestly prefare Standard class in one, I really don't know where XC get this from 'More legroom' I'm yet to find that extra leg room....

Are you on drugs?

 

[156499]

Are you on drugs?

No, why are you?

 

[monkey]

Although it can be often quiet in the week, I find during the weekends/bank holidays it can get quite busy with FGW, I suppose the weekend first offer is a big player in that, but it's such a nicer environment that it's worth it.

...the leather seats on fgw look amazingly comfy...

 

[87015]

Doesn't help that the quality of standard class accommodation seems to get ever worse meaning FC is far more appealing to just get a decent travelling environment which SC used to provide on many more routes than it does now.

 

[devon_metro]

No, why are you?

No however, I presumed by posting such a load of crap about Voyagers you must have been? Standard class is appalling, First is bearable. Quite a difference.

 

[156499]

No however, I presumed by posting such a load of crap about Voyagers you must have been? Standard class is appalling, First is bearable. Quite a difference.

Sorry, am i not aloud an opinion now?