1st class is there any need for it anymore?

[Techniquest]

...the leather seats on fgw look amazingly comfy...

But it's not...Looks really can be deceiving...

First Class is the way to travel generally. I haven't travelled in First Class for ages, but to be honest it's not worth it now it's been plasticised on FGW, so I don't bother even on weekends when I can sometimes afford it. Standard Class is more comfortable, and I never thought I'd see the day First Class would be outshone by Standard Class for comfort. The superior space in First Class is still there though.

First Class on the WagEx looks good, but the ching and the lack of a call at Hereford stops me even thinking about doing it. First Class up the Marches would be rather nice to do, but merr.

Only comfortable looking First Class now appears to be on London to Norwich with the MK3s, although the traction is so boring I'd rather not go over there.

Voyager First Class is OK, not amazing. Much nicer than Standard though. Don't go on XC very often though, especially not on Voyagers, so can't comment on it much. Pendolino First Class is nice enough, but it can be a bit claustrophic in there too. Far superior to Standard, but again I don't travel on the Pendolinos much anyway.

TPX First Class is OK, but it's not all that different to Standard really.

I still wouldn't get rid of First Class though, the smug feeling one can get from being able to avoid the norms and sit in First Class on an InterCity journey is worth its weight in gold. Aside from the cost though, I don't do First Class very often now as I'm usually only on short journies when on a rover/ranger.

 

[Aictos]

...the leather seats on fgw look amazingly comfy...

I know, I've travelled on FGW quite a few times and every time, I walk past the First Class seeing how comfortable these seats are...

Puts NXEC to shame easily and I'm not just saying that because I work for First too!

 

[Techniquest]

Heh, I found the First Class seats in a Mallardised HST way back in October 2007 more comfortable than the seats on FGW HSTs!

 

[devon_metro]

Leather seats on FGW are great IMHO. Far better than a clapped out buffet!

 

[SWT Driver]

Leather seats are only comfortable for a shortish time, as they soon get sticky with sweat..

 

[richa2002]

Sorry, am i not aloud an opinion now?

Of course, just be prepared to back it up with credible observations/evidence.

 

[90019]

Of course, just be prepared to back it up with credible observations/evidence.

Now he's been banned, I doubt he's going to be doing that. Although I doubt he would have been able to anyway

 

[generalvegitable]

In my opinion the main reason that people buy first class is for the peace and quiet that it brings, and in standard class that is not always possible, for example there are crying babies or young children who can't stop shouting. So instead of first class how about child free where people on child tickets are not allowed, therefore you won't have screaming kids everywhere, and you will be able to relax and read a book, admire the scenery, have a quiet conversation, listen to music on your ipod for alot longer than you normally would or actually have a snooze! I think that it would be much better than the current system

 

[Drsatan]

In an ideal world, I think first class is a sensible idea, since some people will be prepared to pay more in order to travel in greater comfort. In the real world, that's not always the case. The Salisbury - Romsey - Southampton Central - Eastleigh - Chandlers Ford - Romsey (usually formed of a single 158) retains first class accommodation which I think is unnecessary given the short journey length ; declassifying First Class would create more seats which would reduce the number of standees during the rush hour. The XC 220s/221s should have their first class accommodation declassified anyway because that would decrease the chronic overcrowding on many XC services (until more coaches are ordered for these units). First class on all the XC services I've been on is usually nearly empty, presumably because of the ridiculously high price.

 

[Daimler]

Doesn't help that the quality of standard class accommodation seems to get ever worse meaning FC is far more appealing to just get a decent travelling environment which SC used to provide on many more routes than it does now.

I think that's a very good point. Until recently, when we travelled on the GW Main Line, we'd take standard class unless we were going for a very long journey. Since the refurbishment, we have almost invariably travelled first class - same goes forthe East Coast (though standard class isn't so bad).

On a very long journey though, it's worth the bother even if standard class is OK - the extra space and free stuff means it's a more relaxing journey.

Put simply, first class is, on intercity trains, a really enjoyable way to travel - I should be going up to Oxford from London in a few days, and I'm going to go at weekend specifically to travel first class (£5 upgrade!).

 

[Geezertronic]

Virgin seem to be 1 TOC that have almost a whole train of 1st class and most of them empty!!!

I think you are very mistaken regarding your first comment. The Pendolino has 4 First Class coaches and 5 Standard Class coaches. That equates to 147 First Class seats (2+1) and 300 Standard seats (2+2). Whilst there may be 4 First Class coaches, the 2+2 formation in Standard Class means more seats per coach. We'll have to wait and see how the formation changes when some sets are upgraded to 11 coaches as part of the Pendolino Lengthening.

When I travel on the various peak trains from Birmingham and return, First Class is always well subscribed.

 

[Fincra5]

At the weekends 1st class does tend to be empty on virgin trains. However during the week it is full of commuters travelling to work/ business meetings.

I like nothing better, than when i can, upgrading to 1st class. I can see your point on Local trains. Howerver longer distance like virgin, EMT, NXec etc first class is a good thing.

 

[Lee_Again]

In my opinion the main reason that people buy first class is for the peace and quiet that it brings, and in standard class that is not always possible, for example there are crying babies or young children who can't stop shouting. So instead of first class how about child free where people on child tickets are not allowed, therefore you won't have screaming kids everywhere, and you will be able to relax and read a book, admire the scenery, have a quiet conversation, listen to music on your ipod for alot longer than you normally would or actually have a snooze! I think that it would be much better than the current system

Unfortunately we can't design the perfect coach. Noicy children (babies excepted) are due to lazy parents. I have two young children and you can rest assured that they do not behave in a manner that would upset other passegers. Teaching good manors and accepting that they need to be entertained is most often the solution. I've done 8hrs to Inverness with them, in 1st, and they were fine. In fact, the mature 'posh' couple sitting behind us drinking copious amounts of wine and eating the foulest smelling cheese made more of a nuisance of themselves than our kids did, or the large group of teenager that we also shared the coach with from Newcastle.

In any event, passengers ignore specific coach demands. Spend 5 minutes in a 'quiet' coach is enough to prove that. And, dare say it, those with loud iPods and the like are among the worst culprits.

If everyone on a train, or any form of public transport for that matter, just acted with consideration then we wouldn't need any type of coach designation, let alone 1st class.

 

[starrymarkb]

Well OBB think there is demand for Standard, First and Premium on their Railjets. 2+1 leather seats in First - 4 seat compartments in premium...

Oh and standard Voyager is much more comfortable then the awful seats in the XC HSTs

 

[Old Timer]

Their revenue staff wear plain clothes; you'll see them sitting in a group of four before a train starts. When it starts they make a badge visible and work through the train dishing out fines.

Thanks for that, old boy.

I was beginning to wonder if they actually cared or if it was just a continuation of the more laid back approach that seems to be in the Netherlands.

Best make sure I keep buying them then. Not sure if the tourist "No Understand" will work !

I wonder if it is just the Centraal to Schiphol section that they perhaps don't seem to bother about, in my short experience anyway?

 

[tbtc]

Doesn't help that the quality of standard class accommodation seems to get ever worse

I'd say the opposite is true. Standard Class (I'm old enough to call it Second Class though) now comes with things like plug sockets/ wifi/ blinds (depending on TOC/ train). With that in "Standard", why upgrade to First?

TOCs have a vested interest in keeping "Standard" poor, otherwise there won't be enough of a premium to get people paying more - in the same way that other businesses make sure their "economy" ranges aren't too good otherwise people will trade down from more profitable brands.

 

[ivanhoe]

I'd say that the majority of First Class Passengers usually have their tickets paid for them by their Employers except say at weekends and super off peak trains. The problem with modern trains like Pendilino's is that it is difficult to change formations. The answer is longer trains on 'Inter City ' routes and we may have to look at the need for x trains per hour on certain routes and the need for hourly departures on other routes in order to get these longer trains. Further Investment by Government is somewhat unlikely in the immediate future given the state of Government Finances.

 

[robert2000]

the pendolino has too many 1st class carriages, thts y the standard class is always full, give up 2 1st class seats and tht wud solve overcrowding.

 

[Flying Snail]

Pendos have 4 first class coaches to deal with peak trains to London where they can be close to full. Outside of those trains I would be surprised and disappointed if I couldn't get a bay of 4 all to myself.

The other side of the coin is that a 1st class seat that is only occupied twice a day can still generate more income than a standard seat filled mostly with advance fares on every journey.

The biggest advantage for me is the extra space, rarely would I have to share a table with anyone in first. A quiet environment can't be guaranteed, you still get noisy tossers in first that shout into phones, etc but in a standard coach with 50+ people these days it is almost a given that at least one will do something loud and annoying for most of any given journey.

 

[robert2000]

i must admit, i can now get a seat on a virgin train from chester, thanks to the dec 08 timetable, i hope to see more improvements soon.

i feel sorry for the people of holyhead who get the 04.50am train, shame it cant leave a bit later even just 10 mins later is something.

 

[Aussie_Rail]

I can't see why first class shouldn't be offered? In most cases people prefer to sit in nice seats with more room and be in a less louder environment than being in economy where its more packed in and more noisy.

On longer journeys, say hour and half to three hours first class should definately be offered to those that want to pay it.

 

[krus_aragon]

i must admit, i can now get a seat on a virgin train from chester, thanks to the dec 08 timetable, i hope to see more improvements soon.

i feel sorry for the people of holyhead who get the 04.50am train, shame it cant leave a bit later even just 10 mins later is something.

Seven years ago, to get to London before 9 (for a flight) I left Bangor at 0220, with at least an hour's stopover at New Street. Compared to that, a 0450 ex Holyhead direct is a significant improvement timewise.

 

[Flying Snail]

Seven years ago, to get to London before 9 (for a flight) I left Bangor at 0220, with at least an hour's stopover at New Street. Compared to that, a 0450 ex Holyhead direct is a significant improvement timewise.

Not for people connecting from the overnight ferry at Holyhead which was the primary function of that train, the 01.50 already meant a lengthy wait of 1h30 now it is a 4h30 wait.

 

[mrcheek]

The other side of the coin is that a 1st class seat that is only occupied twice a day can still generate more income than a standard seat filled mostly with advance fares on every journey.

Quoted for truth, as they say.

Close this thread now. The question has been definitively answered.

 

[87015]

I'd say the opposite is true. Standard Class (I'm old enough to call it Second Class though) now comes with things like plug sockets/ wifi/ blinds (depending on TOC/ train). With that in "Standard", why upgrade to First?

Not for me. Plugs and wifi don't make up for a far worse seat layout, generally cramped atmosphere and chance of a window/table. Its not as though having such 21st century items included is much to do with the general travelling environment which is what IMO has declined a lot with most recent intercity stock, new or refurbished. I do like the 'Mallard' Mk4 refurbishment though, but only as the original was so drab.

 

[krus_aragon]

Not for people connecting from the overnight ferry at Holyhead which was the primary function of that train, the 01.50 already meant a lengthy wait of 1h30 now it is a 4h30 wait.

On that I agree wholeheartedly. Even though I've never crossed on that ferry, the possibility of having a train eastbound from Bangor after 9pm (even if rather late) would have been very desirable when I was studying there.

 

[harz99]

Pendos have 4 first class coaches to deal with peak trains to London where they can be close to full. Outside of those trains I would be surprised and disappointed if I couldn't get a bay of 4 all to myself.

The other side of the coin is that a 1st class seat that is only occupied twice a day can still generate more income than a standard seat filled mostly with advance fares on every journey.
QUOTE]

The above is quite correct, however Virgin could do their customer relations a lot of good, if one (or two) of the empty First carriages on the off peak trains were available to standard class non advance ticket holders at a weekend first style supplement payable on train.

 

[43021HST]

On the FGW MK3s there is TWO first class carriages it should be downgraded to half a carriage. Thats the only thing that annoys about the MK 3s. I have a natural hatred for the rich because my Dad is a socialist. So I was encouraged to blame the rich for most of the countrys faults. Before you lot say that I should have my own mind about stuff. I,m easily influenced.

 

[MCR247]

Only two first class coaches with FGW HSTs? I'm suprised at that, I'd of thought 3

 

[rww100]

I have a natural hatred for the rich because my Dad is a socialist. So I was encouraged to blame the rich for most of the countrys faults. Before you lot say that I should have my own mind about stuff. I,m easily influenced.

Walk into the light - I think the prime minister has quite a lot to be blamed for instead.