woodhouse122
Member
- Joined
- 9 Aug 2011
- Messages
- 208
dissapointing that the strike on july 21st is the same day as the crewe DRS open day 

Unless the RMT are willing to accept person trained to guard standard on every train but with driver doing the doors.
Exactly why would they be opposed to DOO. If you look at the reality, rather than the bunkum that RMT put out about "concern for our safety". Its about the future of the guard role. They know the guard is guaranteed for the life of the franchise but what they do know is that in future there will be less and less guards employed. So the only people losing out to DOO is the RMT Union itself as it relies on guard membership. Hence why its opposed to DOO. Aslef is the drivers union so their membership will be not affected.
A’s did the RMT during the decades prior to Mick Cash becoming leader .ASLEF have a history of rejecting DOO initially but eventually giving in if enough incentives are thrown in.
Exactly why would they be opposed to DOO. If you look at the reality, rather than the bunkum that RMT put out about "concern for our safety". Its about the future of the guard role. They know the guard is guaranteed for the life of the franchise but what they do know is that in future there will be less and less guards employed. So the only people losing out to DOO is the RMT Union itself as it relies on guard membership. Hence why its opposed to DOO. Aslef is the drivers union so their membership will be not affected.
What impact will it have on you then? As I'm only going from experience of DOO and they have been implemented with the support of Aslef.Got to say, you couldn't be more wrong on that one. It will affect us massively.
What impact will it have on you then? As I'm only going from experience of DOO and they have been implemented with the support of Aslef.
If he is a non DOO Driver then he will have to work DOO. That is a direct impact. It will change his terms and conditions of employment, increase his workload and fatigue, and increase his incident risk.
That makes sense however I think the point I meant was it wouldn't decrease their membership like it would for the RMT in the long term. Also as long as they had longer rest periods and more training I dont see a problem. They are still in a job and as long as health and safety is taken into account then its fine.If he is a non DOO Driver then he will have to work DOO. That is a direct impact. It will change his terms and conditions of employment, increase his workload and fatigue, and increase his incident risk.
That makes sense however I think the point I meant was it wouldn't decrease their membership like it would for the RMT in the long term.
Also as long as they had longer rest periods and more training I dont see a problem. They are still in a job and as long as health and safety is taken into account then its fine.
What impact will it have on you then? As I'm only going from experience of DOO and they have been implemented with the support of Aslef.
To me, if it's a genuine safety issue, accepted by all parties, then members should vote against DOO.
You make some very valid points. My only question would be why hasn't Aslef gone on strike now? It still doesn't change anything in my view as Northern cannot back down as they agreed to DOO as part of the franchise agreement However if what you say is true and I have no reason to dispute your expertise, then this is a huge issue for Aslef and they should be uniting with RMT. Unless Aslef accept what I have stated there is no point in fighting it and losing money as they wont win.Put simply, instead of concentrating on what's in front of me, I'd have to also concentrate on what's behind me too. I work for VT, am only DOO for ECS moves and currently open the doors in passenger service and only shut them under the authority and watch of the guard if driving a 221 (an inherited way of working from XC), the guard shuts them on 390s. I do see problems for ASLEF on this if they try and agree DOO in areas where there hasn't been any such as Northern, Merseyrail, Ourselves, etc. Unlike GTR or GA where there is some, and it's used as a way of getting DOO in by the back door, because some drivers are used to it. These don't, and you could see drivers leave the union over this at those companies over it. I believe the RMT have some presence at some Northern depots, so it could benefit them long term. However it's ultimately upto us as members of ASLEF to vote against it. The EC have never put a gun to any drivers head and said you must vote it in, they only recommend a vote not say you must. ....it's ultimately up to us.
You make some very valid points. My only question would be why hasn't Aslef gone on strike now? It still doesn't change anything in my view as Northern cannot back down as they agreed to DOO as part of the franchise agreement However if what you say is true and I have no reason to dispute your expertise, then this is a huge issue for Aslef and they should be uniting with RMT. Unless Aslef accept what I have stated there is no point in fighting it and losing money as they wont win.
I'm little lost here. Why are RMT on strike they haven't yet imposed changes to conditions? Northern arnt even at that stage. Also where does it state they can only strike over certain reasons? I know there is a minimum turnout and votes before they can.Aslef's Northern or Merseyrail drivers haven't gone on strike as the question hasn't been put to them yet. You cant go on strike unless the company comes along and tries to change T&C's, either by asking, or imposing. They had the joint campaign over DOO, but after the Southern drivers eventually voted it in, the reaction didn't go down well at all, both with the RMT and many drivers at other TOC's. Must admit I wasn't happy with them accepting it and it weakened us overall, amd left us as being perceived as being able to be bought off in the eyes of many. However you can't assume every other TOCs drivers will react the same. Merseyrail drivers have even refused to cross the picket line when their guards have gone out which I personally find very commendable. This is obvs my own opinion, but I dont believe paying us off would work, I feel I'm already very well paid, so it's no incentive to me to take a bung in order to sell my TM colleagues down the river.
I wonder when these talks are. Also does anyone think they will be successful. I cant see how they can be but we can live in hope.
Under Serco Abellio the RMT balloted about temporary contractors but because they also included DOO in a future franchise which was nothing to do with the current company, the company threatened to take them to court. On taking legal advice the RMT cancelled action as the company would have probably successfully got an injunction against strike action.
Any ideas how the talks went today? Guessing not too well as the strike hasn't been postponed
Well we will have to wait and see. My guess is not well but you never know miracles may happen.Announcement shortly
Yes just read it here. I have to say I am surprised. I cannot see how they can resolve this dispute as I have stated previously on this forum. HOWEVER I am not one to look a gift horse in the mouth. https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/members...-and-extension-of-doo-arn130718/?preview=trueStrike suspended
Yes just read it here. I have to say I am surprised. I cannot see how they can resolve this dispute as I have stated previously on this forum. HOWEVER I am not one to look a gift horse in the mouth. https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/members...-and-extension-of-doo-arn130718/?preview=true
Yes just read it here. I have to say I am surprised. I cannot see how they can resolve this dispute as I have stated previously on this forum. HOWEVER I am not one to look a gift horse in the mouth. https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/members...-and-extension-of-doo-arn130718/?preview=true
Sounds rather like just a slight rehash of what has gone before. The company won't go as far as the RMT wants and the RMT won't budge from their demands.