Disabled Tanyalee Davis - more rail travel woes.

[AlterEgo]

Darryl Hannah and Courtney Love have Autistic Spectrum Disorder.
Dan Aykroyd, Stanley Kubrick, Paddy Considine, Sir Anthony Hopkins, Susan Boyle, Ladyhawke (singer), Guy Martin, Chris Packham, Gary Numan and Anne Hegarty (from ITV's 'The Chase') have Asperger's Syndrome.

None of those people would be likely to require assistance to board a train though.

 

[OneOffDave]

She’s everywhere!

Call me a cynic but I can’t help but think this is as much to enhance her own profile as it is to improve disabled access.

Yeah, because that's all a disabled person with a voice wants to do. Did she plug her shows at the end too?

 

[Bantamzen]

Yeah, because that's all a disabled person with a voice wants to do. Did she plug her shows at the end too?

As the saying goes in celebrity and political life, there's no such thing as bad publicity. Even though I'm sure it wasn't her priority, her agent will have doubtless commented on how this has raised her profile and a few more bad news stories might raise it more....

 

[Esker-pades]

None of those people would be likely to require assistance to board a train though.

Speaking as someone on the autism spectrum, the times when I need assistance are in times of disruption. Any point my train could be late enough to miss a connection (which happens often), I ask the guard a lot of questions (or as much as inhibitions will allow) and effectively make sure that they know I exist and need help. I probably become quite annoying as I'm often told "there's nothing I can do now, you have to wait". This can put me in a state of silent terror.

The other point is request stops. I make sure at least twice that the guard knows I am requesting a stop and again to ask if I need to go to any specific door to alight.

Assistance comes in many forms. My type of assistance is being given clear information in times of disruption so that I know what to do and not being patronising etc. if I ask silly questions or have to assure myself that a thing will happen.

 

[farleigh]

Hopefully she won't have any further problems

 

[AlterEgo]

Speaking as someone on the autism spectrum, the times when I need assistance are in times of disruption. Any point my train could be late enough to miss a connection (which happens often), I ask the guard a lot of questions (or as much as inhibitions will allow) and effectively make sure that they know I exist and need help. I probably become quite annoying as I'm often told "there's nothing I can do now, you have to wait". This can put me in a state of silent terror.

The other point is request stops. I make sure at least twice that the guard knows I am requesting a stop and again to ask if I need to go to any specific door to alight.

Assistance comes in many forms. My type of assistance is being given clear information in times of disruption so that I know what to do and not being patronising etc. if I ask silly questions or have to assure myself that a thing will happen.

Of course, but none of that is booked assistance, which is the crux of what is being discussed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Speaking as someone on the autism spectrum, the times when I need assistance are in times of disruption. Any point my train could be late enough to miss a connection (which happens often), I ask the guard a lot of questions (or as much as inhibitions will allow) and effectively make sure that they know I exist and need help. I probably become quite annoying as I'm often told "there's nothing I can do now, you have to wait". This can put me in a state of silent terror.

The other point is request stops. I make sure at least twice that the guard knows I am requesting a stop and again to ask if I need to go to any specific door to alight.

Assistance comes in many forms. My type of assistance is being given clear information in times of disruption so that I know what to do and not being patronising etc. if I ask silly questions or have to assure myself that a thing will happen.

As a slight tangent, have you got Realtime Trains, Twitter etc on your phone? Being able to find the information yourself, often to a higher level of quality and detail than the staff get told, can be very useful and may help to reduce your stress levels.

 

[stut]

No, you're absolutely correct. As I said, it's nigh on impossible to determine this.

I think what I'm trying to articulate, is that those who shall we say 'milk the system', take it upon themselves to stop doing so.

If it's impossible to determine, and the number that 'milk the system' is small, I'd much rather risk a few 'milkers' and ensure people get the assistance they need, than catch everybody out and risk excluding people who genuinely need help.

 

[WelshBluebird]

What exactly is wrong with someone using their position as a "celebrity" to raise the profile of such issues?
If it makes more people pay attention to how poor the provision often is, then what is the problem there?

 

[father_jack]

Hopefully she won't have any further problems

She is so unfortunate, something dramatic on a train will surely come her way..........

 

[AlterEgo]

What exactly is wrong with someone using their position as a "celebrity" to raise the profile of such issues?
If it makes more people pay attention to how poor the provision often is, then what is the problem there?

There's nothing wrong with it at all - remember Tanni Grey-Thompson's trials and tribulations about getting left on a train at King's Cross?

I can't see that Tanyalee has tried to plug any shows directly off the back of this.

 

[LAX54]

I think the interviews on TV have always mentioned the gig she was going to, so a sort of indirect plug maybe

 

[Esker-pades]

As a slight tangent, have you got Realtime Trains, Twitter etc on your phone? Being able to find the information yourself, often to a higher level of quality and detail than the staff get told, can be very useful and may help to reduce your stress levels.

I obsessively check RTT is these situations. The problem comes with my often rural journeys on lines north of Inverness where last trains and held connections are things only railway staff can do.

 

[Llanigraham]

The news reports the incidents. A byproduct of that is raised awareness. If there were an incident of an autistic celebrity being as shabbily treated as Tanyalee Davis then it may well make the news. Allowing them to highlight the problems those on the spectrum face in everyday life.

Many celebrities support the UK's National Autistic Society, including some on the spectrum.

Do you honestly think that if this had happened to Josephine Public and not an up-and-coming comedienne it would have got the same publicity?

Yes she has been unlucky but I do feel that her "fame" has got her the airtime.

 

[Bromley boy]

Darryl Hannah and Courtney Love have Autistic Spectrum Disorder.
Dan Aykroyd, Stanley Kubrick, Paddy Considine, Sir Anthony Hopkins, Susan Boyle, Ladyhawke (singer), Guy Martin, Chris Packham, Gary Numan and Anne Hegarty (from ITV's 'The Chase') have Asperger's Syndrome.

Thanks for that list. Details are easily found with a Google of "autistic celebrities". Something @Bromley boy could easily have done himself to fact check his opinion before making it.

I’m (obviously) talking about people further down the autistic spectrum, many of whom are profoundly disabled, cannot work and cannot live independently. I would like to see more emphasis placed on improving the lives of these people.

Disabled toilets, level access etc are all laudable but they only assist with mobility related disabilities.

 

[Bromley boy]

Speaking as someone on the autism spectrum, the times when I need assistance are in times of disruption. Any point my train could be late enough to miss a connection (which happens often), I ask the guard a lot of questions (or as much as inhibitions will allow) and effectively make sure that they know I exist and need help. I probably become quite annoying as I'm often told "there's nothing I can do now, you have to wait". This can put me in a state of silent terror.

The other point is request stops. I make sure at least twice that the guard knows I am requesting a stop and again to ask if I need to go to any specific door to alight.

Assistance comes in many forms. My type of assistance is being given clear information in times of disruption so that I know what to do and not being patronising etc. if I ask silly questions or have to assure myself that a thing will happen.

Better training for on board staff (or even any training at all!) on how to recognise autism would be beneficial here.

 

[OneOffDave]

As the saying goes in celebrity and political life, there's no such thing as bad publicity. Even though I'm sure it wasn't her priority, her agent will have doubtless commented on how this has raised her profile and a few more bad news stories might raise it more....

Given how poor the provision is and how often it fails for me even though I do the same journeys every day I'm sure she won't have to wait too long before another TOC screws up. I'm lucky to go a full week without something happening.

 

[EM2]

None of those people would be likely to require assistance to board a train though.

The point being made was that 'an autistic celebrity is unlikely to happen', this was simply to show that there are autistic celebrities.
However, Bromley Boy has clarified the point, so I shan't comment further on it.

 

[OneOffDave]

Interestingly I've just got off the phone with SWR Customer Services asking about my booked assistance for Thursday when my usual train will be the first FNB-WAT service of the day (instead of the 6th as usual), with the next one not due for an hour. I was told that in the event of overcrowding "the guard will have to make people get off the train to free up the wheelchair space". That's not going to happen in real life. Apparently, if they can't get me on that one, they'll get me a cab to Waterloo that'll get me there in "about an hour"! It's no wonder there's not better provision when corporately they are unaware of the realities on the ground. Last week during the Farnborough Airshow, one of SWR's contractors blocked the access from the disabled parking spaces to the station as part of the crowd management system and no one from SWR had bothered to check that everything was in the right place before the station opened for business. The really annoying thing about most of this is that it's not rocket science yet still seems too difficult to do properly

 

[bramling]

Do you honestly think that if this had happened to Josephine Public and not an up-and-coming comedienne it would have got the same publicity?

Yes she has been unlucky but I do feel that her "fame" has got her the airtime.

She can’t be that famous, no one in my office had previously heard of her - myself included.

 

[duncanp]

Interestingly I've just got off the phone with SWR Customer Services asking about my booked assistance for Thursday when my usual train will be the first FNB-WAT service of the day (instead of the 6th as usual), with the next one not due for an hour. I was told that in the event of overcrowding "the guard will have to make people get off the train to free up the wheelchair space". That's not going to happen in real life. Apparently, if they can't get me on that one, they'll get me a cab to Waterloo that'll get me there in "about an hour"!

Is going from Farnborough North to Paddington via Reading not an option for you?

I know there are lifts at Reading for when you change trains.

 

[OneOffDave]

Is going from Farnborough North to Paddington via Reading not an option for you?

I know there are lifts at Reading for when you change trains.

There doesn't appear to be any accessible parking at Farnborough North and I'd also have to get from Paddington to Waterloo once I was in London. I'm not sure about the accessibility of the rolling stock and availability of assistance from FNN either. When I phoned GWR, they didn't know either way

 

[pt_mad]

Not necessarily. Disabled customers can be elderly and can have luggage, so the options need to be there. The service is 'passenger assistance', not 'disabled assistance'. I always have, and always will, offer assistance to anyone that says they need it.

But you hit the nail on the head there.
Disabled customers can be elderly and have luggage. Quite correct. But if they are disabled, they'd be entitled to disability assistance if the service were modified to cater only for customers with a disability rather than categories 'elderly' and 'non-disabled' and 'luggage' being allowed to be booked as a stand alone category.

As someone pointed out earlier, the current categories you can book for include

• Own wheelchair
• Station wheelchair
• Ramp
• Transfer to seat (i.e. no ramp needed)
• Visually impaired
• Elderly
• Mobility Impaired
• Luggage
• Hearing impaired
• Learning disability
• Other disability
• Non disabled

And combinations thereof.

What I am saying is, if you removed the 'Elderly' and 'luggage' as stand alone categories on the booking system, you'd still be left with every other category for a genuinely disabled person.
Would it discriminate against disabled passengers? No, because you are offering an assistance service to all disabled passengers.

All you'd be doing is removing the facility to book assistance for any Elderly who don't have a disability, and for persons wanting luggage assistance who are not disabled.

By doing this I suspect the length of lists across the country would be reduced to just those requiring disabled assistance. And this would be more manageable to current teams and hopefully frequency of mistakes could be reduced from one in five or whatever it was that was quoted.

So essentially the porters part of the current service is removed.
Luggage assistance would always be booked where the customer has a disability, but not as a standalone service.

Meaning they will stop travelling by train. Providing assistance to anyone who can't manage otherwise is a necessary cost of doing business if the industry wants their custom.

Could be true for some. But for non disabled elderly presumably if they needed to travel then their families could board them and meet them from their first and last trains more often where possible rather than booking assistance where they could stay and help if the assistance wasn't available.

 

[EM2]

What I am saying is, if you removed the 'Elderly' and 'luggage' as stand alone categories on the booking system, you'd still be left with every other category for a genuinely disabled person.
Would it discriminate against disabled passengers? No, because you are offering an assistance service to all disabled passengers.

All you'd be doing is removing the facility to book assistance for any Elderly who don't have a disability, and for persons wanting luggage assistance who are not disabled.

Why should people not be able to avail of assistance if they need it? My wife is not disabled, but suffers from arthritis in numerous joints, including hips, knees and ankles. She finds it difficult to step up and down from trains (315s at Liverpool Street are particularly bad) and needs my help.
Why should someone in that position, if travelling alone, not be allowed assistance?
Again, it is called 'passenger assistance' not 'disabled assistance'.

 

[Bromley boy]

Why should people not be able to avail of assistance if they need it? My wife is not disabled, but suffers from arthritis in numerous joints, including hips, knees and ankles. She finds it difficult to step up and down from trains (315s at Liverpool Street are particularly bad) and needs my help.
Why should someone in that position, if travelling alone, not be allowed assistance?
Again, it is called 'passenger assistance' not 'disabled assistance'.

Without meaning to pry, would that not constitute a disability for the purposes of the equality act?

I should have thought it would.

 

[EM2]

Without meaning to pry, would that not constitute a disability for the purposes of the equality act?

I would have thought it should.

I don't think so. She can walk a reasonable distance (with a stick), it's just steps that cause problems.

 

[Bromley boy]

As someone pointed out earlier, the current categories you can book for include

• Own wheelchair
• Station wheelchair
• Ramp
• Transfer to seat (i.e. no ramp needed)
• Visually impaired
• Elderly
• Luggage
• Hearing impaired
• Learning disability
• Other disability
• Non disabled

I must admit I didn’t realise the categories included “luggage”. So a strapping bloke in their 20s or 30s could request assistance for help with baggage?

That seems a tad ridiculous.

 

[Esker-pades]

Better training for on board staff (or even any training at all!) on how to recognise autism would be beneficial here.

Not even that, just a note that lateness etc. can cause extreme anxiety and being sympathetic and re-assuring is the best thing, even if the only thing is to say "we are obliged to get you to your destination if we can't provide a service".

Note that most staff do do that anyway. I don't want to sound as if all staff are gits. They really aren't.

 

[AlterEgo]

Note that most staff do do that anyway. I don't want to sound as if all staff are gits. They really aren't.

Are you Backontrack in disguise?

 

[Esker-pades]

Are you Backontrack in disguise?

No. I don't know why you think that. Could you explain?