I thought all HSTs carried a coupling bar. Or did I imagine that?
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ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion
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Oh yeah there's a coupling bar... But that and the process for use is a story in itself
gordonjahn
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Well that made me wonder...
DackandBlecker
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Which is why I said after it’s been wired!
Final mile is only for the get you out of jail scenarios.
Would require better diagramming, keeping electric sets off diesel diagrams, but much better for the much vaunted green credentials than flogging previous generation Diesel engines and higher carbon emissions.
The Highland Main Line needs capacity, doesn’t matter how it’s formed, be it HST, or new stock. Even the Fife Circle hauled stock for an out and back diagram, but sadly, if it’s not Edinburgh to Glasgow, it’s miles down the priority list.
Transport Scotland seem to be escaping the flack for this.
Questions need to be asked of them what assumptions were made about delivery times.
K.o.R
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Looks like the XC coach on the left has had its doors done as well, unless that's a trick of the light.
sprinterguy
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Yes, the first completed XC 7-car set was moved up to Craigentinny from Wabtec last Thursday.
K.o.R
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I went on a ScotRail 158 a few months back. There was no legroom anywhere, even on a table seat!
Highland37
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I managed to overtake a 170 today on the section south, heading south, of Dalwhinne in my 115bhp Renault Trafic. They are totally unsuited to the Highland Mainline as are 158s (even worse).
Much as I'm looking forward to the Scotrail HST's (and I'm holidaying in Arbroath next month so wish they were running sooner); but won't they have the same problem with disability access etc. that killed off the Trans-Pennine Mk3's we were just about to have?
kje7812
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They're being modified but the refurb program is very behind schedule, hence why they aren't running them yet.
The point of the modification work they are currently undergoing is to make them compliant with the PRM regulations.
Northhighland
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Just arrived in Inverness off a late running Class 170 that was absolutely rammed with luggage everywhere and people standing.
This is an absolutely atrocious service it was a very unpleasant journey to the point I am back in the car for the rest of the summer. I am not paying £68 to be treated in that manner.
An HST with slam doors would be a massive improvement in what I experienced today.
This is an absolutely atrocious service it was a very unpleasant journey to the point I am back in the car for the rest of the summer. I am not paying £68 to be treated in that manner.
An HST with slam doors would be a massive improvement in what I experienced today.
47271
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A few quick words in defence of 170s on the Highland Main Line.
- they were introduced pretty much 20 years ago and, however crammed they may be now, they replaced the even more inadequate two coach 158s on Scotrail express routes.
- noone at the time had any conception of how demand for rail travel, and the Scottish tourist industry, would take off by 2018.
- they're rubbish at going uphill but generally reliable and are comfortable when they aren't overcrowded.
- it isn't every Highland Main Line service that's full and standing. Equally I suspect that a five coach HST is going to get quite snug mid afternoon at this time of year.
- they're about to be replaced. Everyone knows that they aren't up to this job any more, but they have many years ahead of them providing an excellent service in situations better suited to their strengths.
- they were introduced pretty much 20 years ago and, however crammed they may be now, they replaced the even more inadequate two coach 158s on Scotrail express routes.
- noone at the time had any conception of how demand for rail travel, and the Scottish tourist industry, would take off by 2018.
- they're rubbish at going uphill but generally reliable and are comfortable when they aren't overcrowded.
- it isn't every Highland Main Line service that's full and standing. Equally I suspect that a five coach HST is going to get quite snug mid afternoon at this time of year.
- they're about to be replaced. Everyone knows that they aren't up to this job any more, but they have many years ahead of them providing an excellent service in situations better suited to their strengths.
BRX
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Have the 170s really been around for 20 years? Yikes, I feel old now.
kje7812
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Built 1998 to 2005, so yes.
Highland37
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Well said. I must have been on the train behind you (the late 1744 Aviemore to Inverness) which was also packed with hardly any space for bikes and four trying to get on At Aviemore. It makes for a stressful, angry, travelling environment and the 170s and even worse 158s have to go asap.
47271
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Yes, I think we've got it before we have any more HML hell anecdotes.
The 170s need to be replaced. They are being replaced as quickly as possible. Getting upset by them now won't speed that up at all.
The 170s need to be replaced. They are being replaced as quickly as possible. Getting upset by them now won't speed that up at all.
jingsmonty
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43132 + 43145 should be away for refurbishment soon. 43003+ 43148 will head out this afternoon (as part of set HA05), replaced tonight by 43021 + 43127 (part of set HA01) - the 2 training trains swap over at Perth most days now.
Journeyman
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Couldn't agree more. I find them to be generally pretty comfortable as modern trains go, and on the HML they're fine as long as they're not too busy. The seats are a good shape, they line up well with the windows, the legroom is fairly good and there's a good mixture of airline seats and tables. They were a big improvement on what went before them.
The flaws are the door and toilet layouts, both opening directly into saloons, and the lack of luggage space. Just about everyone on the HML seems to bring insane amounts of stuff with them.
No idea if the Voyager was specifically banned from being used under the franchise terms, but I'd have no problem with those.
Didn't they ask for trains that don't smell?
Purely idle speculation, but a notional 5-car version with buffet and vestibule doors would have resolved virtually all the complaints about the Class 170 on ScotRail Express routes. There'd still be their issues with hill-climbing, but otherwise a pretty decent train. But only if someone had seen a need for it.
hill climbing could be sorted with a more powerful engine. You could call it a 185 if you like. Being a 3-car unit doesn't address the capacity issue though, plus it's a tad's heavy.
Aye, but start running 185s and you lose the Sprinter differentials. So you get up the hills faster, but lose time coming back down them.
Length is quite easy to solve in general, just order more centre cars. The difficult bit is getting the holders of the purse strings to allow you to place the order, and you're not going to do that without a strong business case.
HSTs can make use of those speed differentials, yes? And Voyagers/185s being too heavy can't, with the impact on journey times. Could this be the reason bidders for the franchise were told No Voyagers, not the smell?
I think there is more politics involved than just having a strong business case: means they got their initial sums wrong and don't want to be shown up.
TimboM
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The power cars are being refurbed at Brush (Wabtec) Loughborough. The coaches are being modified at Wabtec Doncaster. This move was to get two of the “finished” power cars from Brush Loughborough to Scotland. Coaches not involved at all.
Stoney1979
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Is there a schedule or some way to find out when the training trains pass through Pitlochry each day? I'd like to go and take a look. Apologies if this is a question with an obvious answer to those in the know but I'm new here so, well, don't know how these things work.
NotATrainspott
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There was no explicit ban of Class 22x units, but the ITT was written in such a way (e.g. explicit mention of no bog smell being allowed) that it was very unlikely any bidder would choose them. There was a financial incentive for the 7 Cities services to be sped up. I think TS were expecting either HSTs or essentially the same as the new TransPennine Express LHCS rakes.
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