ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[TheMuttley]

I wonder how long the cafe area will last?

Personally, I think the cafe area itself is a great idea and would enable them to offer a significantly enhanced range. I'm just not convinced that it would work in conjunction with a trolley service, as well.

 

[Northhighland]

Looks superb. Really impressive. Just need more of them and easonably quickly. As soon as the first one enters service customers will want more. On the HML many passengers plan their trip around the LNER service already.

 

[boabt]

Looks superb. Really impressive. Just need more of them and easonably quickly. As soon as the first one enters service customers will want more. On the HML many passengers plan their trip around the LNER service already.

Unlike the 385s which have been widely trailed for years now, the vast majority of the public won't even know these trains are coming. A very nice surprise for most I'll bet. I can't wait myself.

 

[najaB]

I wonder how long the cafe area will last?

The trolley service is more likely to go than the buffet.

 

[InOban]

It will depend on what's specified in the franchise.

 

[Paul Kerr]

It will depend on what's specified in the franchise.

If I recall correctly having the buffet car was part of the franchise agreement. It will be very similar what we had on the Aberdeen and Inverness services in the mid to late 80's; at that time it was a TSO(T) micro-buffet car. The only difference here is the micro-buffet is in the 1st class saloon instead of standard class. They want a true Inter City travel experience; having a manned buffet car is part of that. It really does feel like they are trying to emulate the standard of service we had in with the push-pull sets which (reliability aside particularly towards the end) was arguably the best service the ScotRail network ever had. Can't wait to try it out myself next time I'm back across the pond for a home visit

 

[route101]

I managed to catch a glimpse of the interior while it passed through Waverley. I must admit, they've done an absolutely fantastic job. The standard class seats look fine and roughly equivalent to other HST offerings but I would argue that the first class interior is a clear step above LNER's, for example. The presence of a shop (and a guard's "office") is a great idea and something I always used to think was a good idea when I saw them on the few ex-Hull (I think?) 170s that had the shop areas but were never used.



Absolutely - and rightly so, this is a significant step-change for Scotrail and one which I really hope works, in the long-term. (Incidentally, I was disappointed to see Scotrail twitter posts about this attracting such negativity, already - the perils of social media, I guess)

The buffet area on the ex hull trains was used on Inverness services but not for long , around 2005 i think . I cant recall if theu had hot food . Do the ex hull trains still have the buffet?

 

[route101]

Having a buffet on Aberdeen/Inverness is great step. Intercity comfort will definitely make me want to use the train .Wonder if there will be hot food ? Or an enhanced first class offering

 

[Craig2601]

First used to offer at least (to my knowledge) hot rolls and bacon for breakfast so the old buffet counter at least offered some hot food.

 

[Northhighland]

So still no information on the delivery of more sets. What is realistic to expect? One a month? Are there more sets being worked on in Wabtec? Is there another one close to completion or are they working on GWR and Xcountry sets at the same time?

If rate is less than one a month then delivery will take more than 2 years. If that is the case at some point expectations and frustration from the travelling public will show.

Just now most people know no better. Soon they will see what better looks like. That will raise interest and expectation. Next summer if people are subject to the same overcrowding and hassle the don’t tell anyone anything strategy will fall apart and damage the whole project.

 

[Stoney1979]

So still no information on the delivery of more sets. What is realistic to expect? One a month? Are there more sets being worked on in Wabtec? Is there another one close to completion or are they working on GWR and Xcountry sets at the same time?

If rate is less than one a month then delivery will take more than 2 years. If that is the case at some point expectations and frustration from the travelling public will show.

Just now most people know no better. Soon they will see what better looks like. That will raise interest and expectation. Next summer if people are subject to the same overcrowding and hassle the don’t tell anyone anything strategy will fall apart and damage the whole project.

Couldn't agree more. Even from the limited info to date, it looks like the difference in the travelling experience is going to be monumental. Once people get a taste of an HST, particularly regular commuters used to being stuffed on 170s etc, the cries of "we want more" are likely to build. It's all going to have to be very carefully managed.

 

[najaB]

Is there another one close to completion or are they working on GWR and Xcountry sets at the same time?

It appears from photos that they are working on the projects in parallel.

 

[jopsuk]

without thinking about the running & conversion costs, would it be feasible eventually (ie fitting in the stations, keeping to time) for all five* routes to use 2+6 sets?

*five routes:
Edinburgh-Aberdeen
Edinburgh-Inverness
Glasgow-Aberdeen
Glasgow-Inverness
Aberdeen-Inverness

 

[najaB]

without thinking about the running & conversion costs, would it be feasible eventually (ie fitting in the stations, keeping to time) for all five* routes to use 2+6 sets?

Other than the 17:15(?) Inverness to Aberdeen service, a six car HST would be overkill for that route, in my experience.

 

[jopsuk]

Other than the 17:15(?) Inverness to Aberdeen service, a six car HST would be overkill for that route, in my experience.

With the current use, yes.

 

[najaB]

With the current use, yes.

You're talking serious growth though. I've been on 170s on that route that were less than half-full between Forres and Insch.

 

[AndrewE]

Couldn't agree more. Even from the limited info to date, it looks like the difference in the travelling experience is going to be monumental. Once people get a taste of an HST, particularly regular commuters used to being stuffed on 170s etc, the cries of "we want more" are likely to build. It's all going to have to be very carefully managed.

Isn't this one of the times that it's worth running whatever the operator can get their hands on (reduced to the appropriate length) just as soon as the sets can be worked north, regardless of their condition? Then cycle them through the upgrade as quickly as the works can manage it.
That way capacity is raised almost immediately and people will also see the improvements that Scotrail are making to the sets "as received."

 

[Aictos]

without thinking about the running & conversion costs, would it be feasible eventually (ie fitting in the stations, keeping to time) for all five* routes to use 2+6 sets?

*five routes:
Edinburgh-Aberdeen
Edinburgh-Inverness
Glasgow-Aberdeen
Glasgow-Inverness
Aberdeen-Inverness

Surely it would have been better to start off with a uniform fleet of 2+5 for all routes which would have been easier to diagram them plus you wouldn't have the potential issue of a 2+4 set standing in for a 2+5 set then have a number of coaches spare to strengthen the sets to 2+6 as and when needed.

 

[scotraildriver]

2+5 sets cannot be accommodated at Haymarket depot until the extension to the maintenance shed is completed hence starting with a 2+4.

 

[Rail Blues]

without thinking about the running & conversion costs, would it be feasible eventually (ie fitting in the stations, keeping to time) for all five* routes to use 2+6 sets?

*five routes:
Edinburgh-Aberdeen
Edinburgh-Inverness
Glasgow-Aberdeen
Glasgow-Inverness
Aberdeen-Inverness

That would be unrealistic even if rail travel was on the up, but given it is flat lining or declining on some places, that sort of growth in demand is crazy talk.

 

[CJSwan]

That would be unrealistic even if rail travel was on the up, but given it is flat lining or declining on some places, that sort of growth in demand is crazy talk.

And also it needs to be remembered that there will be extra local/stopper services on some of these routes, which should take pressure off the HST loadings. So 2+4/2+5 is probably sufficient enough?

 

[XCTurbostar]

I would be very surprised if some of those HSTs didn’t get given an extra coach.

 

[Carntyne]

So still no information on the delivery of more sets. What is realistic to expect? One a month? Are there more sets being worked on in Wabtec?.

There is another four rakes being worked on for Scotrail.

 

[gingertom]

There is another four rakes being worked on for Scotrail.

any idea how they are progressing?

 

[Callum Waring]

Here’s some pictures of the interior (and one of the extrerior) taken at Edinburgh Waverley.

Note* these are not my images but are available in the comment section of the delivery post on Scotrail’s Facebook page

 

[route101]

Looks good , hope theres some airline seating . Not everyone travels in groups !

 

[Geoff DC]

Looks like they have retained the GWR 1st seats which are fairly new & IMHO very comfortable & look good

Video on You Tube

 

[TheMuttley]

Looks like they have retained the GWR 1st seats which are fairly new & IMHO very comfortable & look good

Video on You Tube

Wow, I didn't realise these were retained - I think they look much nicer than the LNER seats, but are they comfier?

 

[CC 72100]

Wow, I didn't realise these were retained - I think they look much nicer than the LNER seats, but are they comfier?

Oh very much so. Retaining a lot of the GWR first class fittings I expect to be regarded as very sensible decision. Very comfortable and feels classy indeed.

 

[AndrewE]

Can you get from the South Sub directly into the depot?

Route would be Monktonhall Jn - Millerhill - Niddrie South Jn - Niddrie West Jn - Craiglockhart Jn - Gorgie Jn - Haymarket Central Jn - reverse in Haymarket platform 0 (or Through Siding) - Haymarket depot. As you say it crosses the Up & Down South and Up & Down North lines.

Thanks. So that's a "no" then!