ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[BRX]

Is there not a plan to use old Caledonian sleeper stock and have a sleeper service from Glasgow/Edinburgh to Inverness/Thurso service?

thread here -

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/wick-sleeper.143068/

 

[JohnMcL7]

The 1935 Edinburgh - Inverness is a direct (via Perth & Aviemore)...think you're getting mixed up with the slightly earlier train (1929 ish, I think) that runs via Aberdeen. Fair enough, it confuses staff, never mind passengers, having the 2 trains leaving close together.

I was referring specifically to the 22:00 Aberdeen to Inverness train, not any of the others given it was cited as an example of a late night train to Inverness - on that service very few people appear to be actually using it to travel to Inverness so I don't think that justifies a late night Glasgow to Inverness service.

 

[Northhighland]

I was referring specifically to the 22:00 Aberdeen to Inverness train, not any of the others given it was cited as an example of a late night train to Inverness - on that service very few people appear to be actually using it to travel to Inverness so I don't think that justifies a late night Glasgow to Inverness service.

Why would anyone travel to Inverness via Aberdeen? No wonder people don’t use an Aberdeen train to get to Inverness. Far quicker by road. To use that as a justification for no late train from Glasgow is risible.

 

[RLBH]

Why would anyone travel to Inverness via Aberdeen? No wonder people don’t use an Aberdeen train to get to Inverness. Far quicker by road. To use that as a justification for no late train from Glasgow is risible.

I used to use the direct train via Aberdeen to get between Glasgow and Forres a lot; theoretically it's quicker via Inverness, but the connections always seemed to be awful at the times I wanted to travel.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There must be an argument in favour of the 19.35 being advertised at Edinburgh and Haymarket as Nairn?

I know that false destinations have their critics on here, but surely this is a situation where it’s entirely logical.

Would make more sense to put a clear "Via Aberdeen" on it. Coupled with the modern PIS update that shows arrival times against each destination (though that hasn't reached everywhere yet) that should do.

 

[jingsmonty]

There must be an argument in favour of the 19.35 being advertised at Edinburgh and Haymarket as Nairn?

I know that false destinations have their critics on here, but surely this is a situation where it’s entirely logical.

Maybe - or just retime one of them. What I don't get is why the Via Aberdeen train doesn't have a Kircaldy stop? This would allow passengers who have boarded the wrong train to detrain & catch the direct one. Maybe the recasting of the timetable post-HST introduction will solve this....

 

[Stoney1979]

So we're on the downslope to mid-Sept and no sign of an HST in service yet, nor are any more refurbished sets apparent on the horizon.

Thinking ahead, what's the schedule for loss of 170s and 158s to elsewhere in the run up to the Dec timetable change? Are SR heading towards an interim slam-door HST vs service cancellations decision?

Not trolling, just wondering how the facts work out as time moves on, it must be coming to decision point soon given all the training etc that may be involved.

 

[Altnabreac]

So we're on the downslope to mid-Sept and no sign of an HST in service yet, nor are any more refurbished sets apparent on the horizon.

Thinking ahead, what's the schedule for loss of 170s and 158s to elsewhere in the run up to the Dec timetable change? Are SR heading towards an interim slam-door HST vs service cancellations decision?

Not trolling, just wondering how the facts work out as time moves on, it must be coming to decision point soon given all the training etc that may be involved.

I've tried to answer this question on this thread:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/scotrail-new-and-refurbished-stock-update.124613/page-11

 

[Stoney1979]

I've tried to answer this question on this thread:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/scotrail-new-and-refurbished-stock-update.124613/page-11

Thank you Altnabreac, most detailed and fascinating info. The upshot being for the benefit of this thread that, all things considered, it looks like there will enough SR DMUs around to keep things running after the Dec change. Therefore, it's looking like slam doors HSTs will never happen. Also may explain why SR are so relaxed about the "new" HSTs being so delayed.

 

[scotraildriver]

Scotrail have, as of last Friday, been granted the necessary licences/safety case to operate slam door HSTs until 31st December 2019............

 

[Norther Monkey]

Scotrail have, as of last Friday, been granted the necessary licences etc to operate slam door HSTs until 31st December 2019............

Whilst hopefully good news in terms of capacity, stock availability etc. could there be problems with dwell times as guards end up having to run up and down trains at unmanned stations closing doors?

 

[Stoney1979]

Scotrail have, as of last Friday, been granted the necessary licences etc to operate slam door HSTs until 31st December 2019............

Interesting, the plot thickens.... Maybe it's all a bit close to the wire on the DMU front (relying on 385s coming in and various other assumptions as detailed by Altnabreac) so a preemptive licence-gain is probably quite prudent. Just in case.

 

[Highlandspring]

There’s no ‘just in case’ about it. It has been confirmed internally that ScotRail will be operating slam door HST sets.

 

[dmkc]

I can't make up my mind if these look tight or not!
http://farm9.static.flickr.com/8608/15863847653_289d890e1d.jpg

 

[Altnabreac]

Interesting, the plot thickens.... Maybe it's all a bit close to the wire on the DMU front (relying on 385s coming in and various other assumptions as detailed by Altnabreac) so a preemptive licence-gain is probably quite prudent. Just in case.

There’s no ‘just in case’ about it. It has been confirmed internally that ScotRail will be operating slam door HST sets.

Suggests they must have decided they need to start running the extra Dundee and Cumbernauld services in December this year and slam door stock is the only way to make that work. It’s a risky tactic though to bring in unrefurbished stock.

 

[scotraildriver]

Slam doors aside there is nothing wrong with the Great Western coaches on the training trains. First class is a definite step up!

 

[47271]

It’s a risky tactic though to bring in unrefurbished stock.

I totally agree, but if they can find their way to communicate on board - vestibule displays would be one way of doing it - that the internal condition is temporary then passengers may appreciate the extra space for both themselves and their luggage whilst squashed in a crummy GWR dynamic lines Standard Class airline seat.

If running unrefurbished stock leads to less than optimum reliability then, yes, it's a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[BRX]

Slam doors aside there is nothing wrong with the Great Western coaches on the training trains. First class is a definite step up!

I've travelled a fair bit in them in standard class, which is claustrophobic, and has terrible lighting. I think many 'normal' passengers would consider it a step down from 170s. Not a disastrous one, but not great. As 47271 says, the key would be to communicate on board that it was a temporary situation.

 

[gsnedders]

Whilst hopefully good news in terms of capacity, stock availability etc. could there be problems with dwell times as guards end up having to run up and down trains at unmanned stations closing doors?

I wonder if they'll try and diagram them to mostly stick to the quicker, more limited stop services, especially on Edinburgh to Aberdeen, where they almost all stop at manned stations. (Admittedly, at many more frequently closing the ticket office for the sake of dispatching them might be a nuisance, but possibly a lesser one.)

 

[Highlandspring]

Sshhh... don’t tell anyone but I’ve heard a whisper that the refurbished set will enter public service on the 8th of October.

 

[greyman42]

I've travelled a fair bit in them in standard class, which is claustrophobic, and has terrible lighting. I think many 'normal' passengers would consider it a step down from 170s. Not a disastrous one, but not great. As 47271 says, the key would be to communicate on board that it was a temporary situation.

The bonus is that they should help with overcrowding.

 

[Northhighland]

I've travelled a fair bit in them in standard class, which is claustrophobic, and has terrible lighting. I think many 'normal' passengers would consider it a step down from 170s. Not a disastrous one, but not great. As 47271 says, the key would be to communicate on board that it was a temporary situation.

Might be poor but a lot better than standing. Which is ever more frequent occurrence on HML

 

[route:oxford]

I've travelled a fair bit in them in standard class, which is claustrophobic, and has terrible lighting. I think many 'normal' passengers would consider it a step down from 170s. Not a disastrous one, but not great. As 47271 says, the key would be to communicate on board that it was a temporary situation.

There are many "normal" passengers who'd be delighted if they got a seat on GWR high-density seated stock rather than stand to Stirling (or Perth).

 

[BRX]

Sure - if it solves a standing issue then I'd agree it has to be an improvement.

 

[route101]

There are many "normal" passengers who'd be delighted if they got a seat on GWR high-density seated stock rather than stand to Stirling (or Perth).

Yes , plenty of seats and airline seating . HST over 170 ANYDAY

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's called high density, but the legroom is fairly decent, certainly no worse than a Pendolino, slightly better in my experience. All it means by high density is a lack of tables.

 

[scotraildriver]

Indeed. The legroom is no worse than a 170 so if it means a seat I think the punters will like it even if its temporary. We'll need some more TGS coaches though I think we only have 2 at the moment.

 

[nat67]

The bonus is that they should help with overcrowding.

And the best thing is that its, A- Loco hauled and B- no under floor engines .

 

[nat67]

Indeed. The legroom is no worse than a 170 so if it means a seat I think the punters will like it even if its temporary. We'll need some more TGS coaches though I think we only have 2 at the moment.

I guess all your TGS's you need are either still in service with GWR or stored at Ely Papworth.

 

[nat67]

Whilst hopefully good news in terms of capacity, stock availability etc. could there be problems with dwell times as guards end up having to run up and down trains at unmanned stations closing doors?

But at least with these HST sets they are not formed of 7 or 8 coaches so less of a run. Maybe shout to normal's to close the doors as there would be a shorter distance to shout.