ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[sprinterguy]

A quick question:

Did any HSTs ever visit Glasgow Queen Street when the power cars were fitted with the original Valenta engines, or was it mainly Central?

Yes, there was a daily morning London Kings Cross service that started from Glasgow Queen Street during the eighties.

 

[hexagon789]

A quick question:

Did any HSTs ever visit Glasgow Queen Street when the power cars were fitted with the original Valenta engines, or was it mainly Central?

Yes, both ECML and XC BR sets. They generally used platforms 6 or 7. Being too long for even platform 7, they blocked access to certain platforms and ended up past the starting signal, in those days the frequencies were such things wasn't much of a problem if two platforms were blocked for 15-20 minutes.

I believe there a morning peak GLQ-EDB by an HST which then ran through to King's Cross and I think a service to Cleethorpes. Not sure where the XC service worked to.

 

[kje7812]

Spotted the refurbished set at Waverley this evening around 1940.

 

[chuff chuff]

Spotted the refurbished set at Waverley this evening around 1940.

Yeah going by scotrail's journey checker it looks like it returned to service on the 13:30 to Aberdeen/Dyce.

 

[route101]

Yes, both ECML and XC BR sets. They generally used platforms 6 or 7. Being too long for even platform 7, they blocked access to certain platforms and ended up past the starting signal, in those days the frequencies were such things wasn't much of a problem if two platforms were blocked for 15-20 minutes.

I believe there a morning peak GLQ-EDB by an HST which then ran through to King's Cross and I think a service to Cleethorpes. Not sure where the XC service worked to.

Im sure in my 1989 SPT timetable an IC service worked to Scarborough from Queen St .

 

[Far north 37]

Im sure in my 1989 SPT timetable an IC service worked to Scarborough from Queen St .

Looking online there in 1986 there was an 08.25 queen street to scarborough via edinburgh summer only

 

[47271]

My impression at the moment is that there's quite a lot of gloomy looking unrefurbed HST sets lurking around in depots and sidings all over Scotland, but none of them seem to move very much, and none appear too promising as far as providing an intensive intercity service in around three weeks time.

I hope that I'm wrong, but I do worry that there's going to be the most almighty shambles of unreliable stock, shortages of trained staff and cancelled services looming ahead of Christmas. It just doesn't feel like they've got a grip on it.

Maybe it'll be okay...

 

[chuff chuff]

My impression at the moment is that there's quite a lot of gloomy looking unrefurbed HST sets lurking around in depots and sidings all over Scotland, but none of them seem to move very much, and none appear too promising as far as providing an intensive intercity service in around three weeks time.

I hope that I'm wrong, but I do worry that there's going to be the most almighty shambles of unreliable stock, shortages of trained staff and cancelled services looming ahead of Christmas. It just doesn't feel like they've got a grip on it.

Maybe it'll be okay...

When they can get them going these are running about driver training.....as you say "Maybe it'll be okay."

 

[Ginaro]

http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=11781

Alex Hynes: "There is one in service at the moment, there will be 10 in service next month and, ultimately, there will be 26 trains, which will all have been refurbished to an intercity standard by the end of next year." - so 24 refurbished trains to be delivered in 2019...

In response to the question - Is it correct that only one of the 10 trains that will be running next month will be upgraded?

"That is our expectation, yes. We expect to have a second refurbished train here in Scotland, but we may use it to continue driver and conductor training and maintenance training. The trains have recently come out of service on the Great Western Railway. They were refurbished relatively recently. Customers will be used to the look and feel of those trains, which already operate from Aberdeen and Inverness on cross-border services. Our customers tell us that they would prefer a classic HST over a class 170 service. That was not our original plan, but I firmly believe that customers will regard it as an uplift in the level of quality of rail service provision."

 

[47271]

http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=11781

Alex Hynes: "There is one in service at the moment, there will be 10 in service next month and, ultimately, there will be 26 trains, which will all have been refurbished to an intercity standard by the end of next year." - so 24 refurbished trains to be delivered in 2019...

In response to the question - Is it correct that only one of the 10 trains that will be running next month will be upgraded?

"That is our expectation, yes. We expect to have a second refurbished train here in Scotland, but we may use it to continue driver and conductor training and maintenance training. The trains have recently come out of service on the Great Western Railway. They were refurbished relatively recently. Customers will be used to the look and feel of those trains, which already operate from Aberdeen and Inverness on cross-border services. Our customers tell us that they would prefer a classic HST over a class 170 service. That was not our original plan, but I firmly believe that customers will regard it as an uplift in the level of quality of rail service provision."

To that Alex, I say 'tables'.

Make sure that the unrefurbed GWR Standard Class mk3s you send out are the ones with enough tables, and not the shockers with only two. There'll be uproar up and down the Highland Main Line if you try to make us sit for three hours with our laptops in one of those high density dumps.

Does anyone know if this is being taken into consideration at all, joking aside, it's really quite important to the extent that the refurb spec insists on it?

 

[Far north 37]

To that Alex, I say 'tables'.

Make sure that the unrefurbed GWR Standard Class mk3s you send out are the ones with enough tables, and not the shockers with only two. There'll be uproar up and down the Highland Main Line if you try to make us sit for three hours with our laptops in one of those high density dumps.

Does anyone know if this is being taken into consideration at all, joking aside, it's really quite important to the extent that the refurb spec insists on it?

To be honest his statement says they prefer a classic gwr hst basically how many passengers even been on one.

 

[380101]

To that Alex, I say 'tables'.

Make sure that the unrefurbed GWR Standard Class mk3s you send out are the ones with enough tables, and not the shockers with only two. There'll be uproar up and down the Highland Main Line if you try to make us sit for three hours with our laptops in one of those high density dumps.

Does anyone know if this is being taken into consideration at all, joking aside, it's really quite important to the extent that the refurb spec insists on it?

The one and only in service refurbished ScotRail HST set has plenty of tables, but the "classic" ones they are planning on running in the interim will be as they come from GWR and are not subject to the franchise refurb specification until they go for refurb.

Akex Hynes states they'll have all the sets in service by the end of next year is a pretty bold statement to make considering its taken Wabtec over a year to outshop 3 refurbished sets - 1 set to each TOC that chose them! I'll be very surprised if they have anymore than 10 ScotRail Inter7city spec refurbished HST sets by this time next year.

 

[trebor79]

Yes, there was a daily morning London Kings Cross service that started from Glasgow Queen Street during the eighties.

I think it worked back sometime in the early evening. As a child my friends and I used to hang about Lenzie station watching the trains.
Lots of 101 DMUs, 47s on push pull, 37s on freight and other classes I can't recall now. Sprinters were a thrill when they started turning up with sliding doors and buttons that lit up.
Then my friend told me we could spot the mythical 125, but we'd have to be naughty and stay out late...
And it eventually came through, travelling quite slowly so we got a good stare at it. Looked amazing to a 7 year old me. I still remember that moment.

 

[47271]

The one and only in service refurbished ScotRail HST set has plenty of tables, but the "classic" ones they are planning on running in the interim will be as they come from GWR and are not subject to the franchise refurb specification until they go for refurb.

Akex Hynes states they'll have all the sets in service by the end of next year is a pretty bold statement to make considering its taken Wabtec over a year to outshop 3 refurbished sets - 1 set to each TOC that chose them! I'll be very surprised if they have anymore than 10 ScotRail Inter7city spec refurbished HST sets by this time next year.

Oh I know, what I meant is will it have occurred to them to avoid the worst ultra density ones for 'classic' service? They may have no choice in the matter as you say, but if I'm forced to work in one of those GWR airline seat crapholes under dentists surgery lighting for three hours from 730 in the morning two or three times a week then I won't be one of the people seeing an 'uplift'.

As for the rate of delivery, I think that I worked out the other day that if they keep up current pace we'll be all made up by the end of 2023.

 

[GrimShady]

What's the chances of Wabtec subcontracting the refurbishment out to other works to speed things up?

Is there anyone else in the UK capable of the refurb, maybe Springburn?

I don't believe for one second they'll have ten done by the end of 2019.

 

[nicolaboo]

I think it worked back sometime in the early evening. As a child my friends and I used to hang about Lenzie station watching the trains.
Lots of 101 DMUs, 47s on push pull, 37s on freight and other classes I can't recall now. Sprinters were a thrill when they started turning up with sliding doors and buttons that lit up.
Then my friend told me we could spot the mythical 125, but we'd have to be naughty and stay out late...
And it eventually came through, travelling quite slowly so we got a good stare at it. Looked amazing to a 7 year old me. I still remember that moment.

I caught the evening service twice (August 84). Once from Doncaster and the other from Edinburgh. It was the 17:00 KX to Glasgow QS via Falkirk High.
Not sure of arrival time, but on both occasions I left GLQ fairly soon after on the 23:30 to Perth.

 

[380101]

What's the chances of Wabtec subcontracting the refurbishment out to other works to speed things up?

Is there anyone else in the UK capable of the refurb, maybe Springburn?

I don't believe for one second they'll have ten done by the end of 2019.

If you've had the misfortune to experience any of the 156 units that have been "refurbished" at Springburn, you'd not be wanting to send the HST coaches there for any work!

Wabtec hold the patents and the rights to the slodong door system, so I'd imagine they are reluctant to allow any other company get their hands on it. The only other Wabtec site that could do it is Kilmarnock, but they are busy with the 321 to 320 conversions for ScotRail.

 

[GrimShady]

If you've had the misfortune to experience any of the 156 units that have been "refurbished" at Springburn, you'd not be wanting to send the HST coaches there for any work!

Wabtec hold the patents and the rights to the slodong door system, so I'd imagine they are reluctant to allow any other company get their hands on it. The only other Wabtec site that could do it is Kilmarnock, but they are busy with the 321 to 320 conversions for ScotRail.

I traveled on a few refurbished 158s last year fresh from Springburn that weren't exactly up to scratch.

 

[greyman42]

To that Alex, I say 'tables'.

Make sure that the unrefurbed GWR Standard Class mk3s you send out are the ones with enough tables, and not the shockers with only two. There'll be uproar up and down the Highland Main Line if you try to make us sit for three hours with our laptops in one of those high density dumps.

Does anyone know if this is being taken into consideration at all, joking aside, it's really quite important to the extent that the refurb spec insists on it?

I am sure that passengers will prefer sitting in 'high density dumps' to standing on 170s. The laptop issue really is not that important.

 

[JModulo]

What's the chances of Wabtec subcontracting the refurbishment out to other works to speed things up?

Is there anyone else in the UK capable of the refurb, maybe Springburn?

I don't believe for one second they'll have ten done by the end of 2019.

Have heard otherwise they might be. Path in for Kilmarnock tomorrow.

 

[jingsmonty]

Have heard otherwise they might be. Path in for Kilmarnock tomorrow.

Interesting...very interesting. Agree that the 158 refurbishment carried out at Springburn wasn't to a particularly high standard, this may have been a reflection on the budget allocated for it, in fairness

 

[scotraildriver]

Painting over Speedos, releasing units with things missing like sunblinds and essential labels and fitting drivers seats back to front isn't a budget issue it's bad workmanship! I don't fancy their chances with major surgery like the HST!

 

[route101]

There was GWR Carriages at Springburn hen i popped into the Tesco , not sure if powercars were there too

 

[jingsmonty]

Painting over Speedos, releasing units with things missing like sunblinds and essential labels and fitting drivers seats back to front isn't a budget issue it's bad workmanship! I don't fancy their chances with major surgery like the HST!

Me neither!! If the coaches are heading to Wabtec Kilmarnock, maybe that's a better bet?

Are these GWR coaches actually for Scotrail, does anyone know? Just asking, given that GWR & Cross Country also waiting for coaches too. Thought maybe they might just be "classic" (note the inverted commas....!) coaches in for a minor tart up/repair, prior to being marshalled for service?

 

[Highlandspring]

There was GWR Carriages at Springburn hen i popped into the Tesco , not sure if powercars were there too

A 2+6 set arrived at ZH last Saturday evening and I think another might have gone in during the week, though I’m not sure. There were two powercars sitting outside the shed when I was in Tesco on Thursday.

 

[380101]

Painting over Speedos, releasing units with things missing like sunblinds and essential labels and fitting drivers seats back to front isn't a budget issue it's bad workmanship! I don't fancy their chances with major surgery like the HST!

Also a sign that some waste of space in fleet didnt even bother to check them over before accepting them back! The 156s have had the same issues once returned. The worst thing is they were meant to sort the arm rests but all they did was put new foam in them. Us drivers were sorely let down with the refurb as they could've done so much better in the cab, but with everything else ordered/specc'd by Abellio they've been disappointing.

 

[jingsmonty]

Also a sign that some waste of space in fleet didnt even bother to check them over before accepting them back! The 156s have had the same issues once returned. The worst thing is they were meant to sort the arm rests but all they did was put new foam in them. Us drivers were sorely let down with the refurb as they could've done so much better in the cab, but with everything else ordered/specc'd by Abellio they've been disappointing.

Yep...

 

[rossco156433]

Have heard otherwise they might be. Path in for Kilmarnock tomorrow.

Heard something similar, but not Wabtec. Paths are into the newly named Long Lyes Terminal Complex (was Long Lyes Sidings) next to Brodies.

 

[kilonewton]

HST set with Inter7City power cars & First coaches on the E-G right now

 

[Wolfie]

To that Alex, I say 'tables'.

Make sure that the unrefurbed GWR Standard Class mk3s you send out are the ones with enough tables, and not the shockers with only two. There'll be uproar up and down the Highland Main Line if you try to make us sit for three hours with our laptops in one of those high density dumps.

Does anyone know if this is being taken into consideration at all, joking aside, it's really quite important to the extent that the refurb spec insists on it?

I have to say that if they are good enough for London to the West Country or South Wales they are certainly good enough for short-term interim usage in the Scottish Highlands.