Train leaving early?

[cakehoover]

I just arrived at Stroud station to catch the 08.06 to Paddington and it left early. I'm not sure exactly when the doors were locked, but it was already pulling out of the station at 08:05:46.

Is it worth flagging this up to the train company, or are trains allowed to leave early these days? I assume this is about the TOC not wanting to get fines for being late so hustling trains off early.

I had an advance single and I missed the train as a result. I know GWR advertise somewhere that they lock the doors 90 seconds before departure, so I probably would have missed it anyway to be honest. But it still seems wrong that the train should actually leave before its scheduled time :-/

 

[Hadders]

Doors close up to 2 minutes before departure depending on the TOC and station, so you've nothing to complain about.

 

[cakehoover]

Do you know where GWR actually tell people that? I can't find anything online.

 

[cakehoover]

And: even if doors close early, surely the train shouldn't actually leave the station early?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Doors close up to 2 minutes before departure depending on the TOC and station, so you've nothing to complain about.

I very much disagree. Precisely where when booking online, or indeed at any point before actually getting to the platform, is this advertised?

Closing doors two minutes before departure is ludicrous. Starting the process 30 seconds before departure is OK for services where there is a slow dispatch procedure, but for services with a normal dispatch procedure it's not really necessary, and it's purely an effort at gaming the statistics to try and reduce PPM failures and the like.

I've certainly noticed quite a lot of services leaving a little early. I'm not complaining about the effort at timekeeping, but it then puts the idea of closing doors 30-60 seconds prior to departure "to ensure an on-time departure" to ridicule.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Do you know where GWR actually tell people that? I can't find anything online.

Exactly, they don't until you get to the platform so there is no way they can make arriving at the platform 2 minutes before the booked departure a term of the contract. If they wanted to do that, they would need to change the NRCoT, and/or ensure that trains only depart after the advertised departure time, and/or ensure that all retailing methods told you about this.

Have you ended up paying extra to travel on another service?

 

[yorkie]

I'd put in a Delay Repay claim. The logs do appear to show it departing a minute early from Cheltenham, Stroud and Didcot. It got to Reading 4 minutes early.

 

[Hadders]

I've certainly seen posters at many stations, including Paddington. The time varies, longer distance operators tend to be 2 minutes, more local type trains 30 or 45 seconds.

Frustrating when you just miss a train - I've made it to the platform before and managed to press the door buttons but couldn't get on as the doors had already been closed. You win some, lose some.

 

[mallard]

Doors close up to 2 minutes before departure depending on the TOC and station, so you've nothing to complain about.

You can absolutely complain about that stupid policy (the proper solution is to make the WTT departure time later than the PTT time), especially since minimum connection times (which are already very tight at some stations) don't take it into account. Complain to the TOC, the ORR (there are definitely safety implications when forcing passengers to run for their connections), your local MP, anybody who will listen!

Try making a "5 minute" connection when the incoming train doesn't open its doors for 30s-1m (at least) after arrival and the outgoing train closes its doors 2 minutes early. Now try claiming any sort of compensation for missing this virtually impossible connection. Or how about giving an explanation that satisfies the RPI so you don't have to pay for a new ticket (or worse) when travelling on an Advance...

 

[bb21]

I just arrived at Stroud station to catch the 08.06 to Paddington and it left early. I'm not sure exactly when the doors were locked, but it was already pulling out of the station at 08:05:46.

Is it worth flagging this up to the train company, or are trains allowed to leave early these days? I assume this is about the TOC not wanting to get fines for being late so hustling trains off early.

I had an advance single and I missed the train as a result. I know GWR advertise somewhere that they lock the doors 90 seconds before departure, so I probably would have missed it anyway to be honest. But it still seems wrong that the train should actually leave before its scheduled time :-/

Doors on GWR are advertised at stations to close 40 seconds before departure, so it is entirely possible wheels were rolling at xxxx45.

In answer to whether trains are allowed to depart early (by a small margin) against booked time, yes, they are, once dispatch process is complete. After all, it is the whole point of this policy - to ensure trains depart at stated times. It is not practical to require all trains to start rolling at precisely zero second. Departing when the process is completed also reduces associated risks when late-comers try and jab door buttons continuously when they realise the train isn't moving.

If you think the doors closed earlier than their stated policy, and that had a direct impact on you missing your train, you need to get in touch with them.

I will let others discuss whether this process is advertised sufficiently, but generally speaking it is a good idea to get to the station a few minutes in advance, so that you have plenty of time to get yourself onto the platform in position without having to rush.

 

[Kite159]

I'd put in a Delay Repay claim. The logs do appear to show it departing a minute early from Cheltenham, Stroud and Didcot. It got to Reading 4 minutes early.

Remember that GWR doesn't do Delay Repay.

(And trains reaching Reading early is common these days as they are still using HST timings whereas the IETs can operate on electric from Bristol Parkway/Swindon)

 

[PeterC]

I agree with mallard that the public timetable should show the doors closed time. However I can then see certain newspapers delighting in stories about how trains are "always late" because the wheels aren't rolling at the advertised minute.

 

[sarahj]

Here at Southern it's 30 secs, which for me, with 'whistle' check' close doors' check' close local door then bell, will lead to a dep on the 55-05 seconds of the min. DOO trains will have non of this, with the driver shutting at 30 secs before and then on their way, poss by the 40-45 sec mark. However, I did find it almost funny the other day being on a DOO train as my scheduled 313 had packed up, with the driver leaving stations 2-3 mins early. Thats progress. Running and working a clockface timetable you soon know which stations have that bit of extra time for 'catch up'. The driver was just going, until we left one station 3 mins early. They then noticed and we sat at a rather quiet station until the timetable and train caught up.

 

[jon0844]

Great Northern is (well all of GTR is) doors closed 30 seconds before. Some stock will be quicker than others to lock the doors. Then there's the safety check. If all good, the train should be moving around xx:xx/50 but it can be quicker. If a 700 is waiting at WGC and arrived at xx:21 and goes at xx:26, chances are the platform is empty and the doors already auto-closed. So at 30 seconds, doors locked and bodyside lights off. Assuming all good, the train could be moving at xx:xx/40.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Here at Southern it's 30 secs, which for me, with 'whistle' check' close doors' check' close local door then bell, will lead to a dep on the 55-05 seconds of the min. DOO trains will have non of this, with the driver shutting at 30 secs before and then on their way, poss by the 40-45 sec mark. However, I did find it almost funny the other day being on a DOO train as my scheduled 313 had packed up, with the driver leaving stations 2-3 mins early. Thats progress. Running and working a clockface timetable you soon know which stations have that bit of extra time for 'catch up'. The driver was just going, until we left one station 3 mins early. They then noticed and we sat at a rather quiet station until the timetable and train caught up.

As an aside, do you (as a guard) work such trains as an OBS, or do you just ride passenger?

 

[Mag_seven]

Doors on GWR are advertised at stations to close 40 seconds before departure

Here is a photo I took today of one such poster - it would be helpful if this info was also included in GWR timetables.

 

[sarahj]

As an aside, do you (as a guard) work such trains as an OBS, or do you just ride passenger?

I work them as a OBS. Pop out at stations to look for wheelchairs/assistance, back on. Hold the train? nothing to do with me. Those lights at the end of the platform, just nice shiny things. *Pluses, they have a lav, minus. I hate getting through the 2+3 seating. I'm NOT twiggy.
* and then your next train is a 313 and those nice shiny lights become VERY important again.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I work them as a OBS. Pop out at stations to look for wheelchairs/assistance, back on. Hold the train? nothing to do with me.

Must admit I'm slightly surprised it's not in an OBS's role to at least bring to the attention of the driver that they may be unintentionally running early. But if it isn't, fair enough I guess.

 

[sarahj]

Here is a photo I took today of one such poster - it would be helpful if this info was also included in GWR timetables.

View attachment 58846

We could tattoo it onto some folks eyeballs and they would still say 'no one ever told me'.* Everyone on the railway hates that phone add where that chiltern train stops and opens it's doors for the late punters. Holding/reopening for late punters might only take 30-40 secs, but 10 stations along and the delay gets bigger and bigger.

*wondering how many time we will hear that in two weeks time when BML is shut for the week.

 

[sarahj]

Must admit I'm slightly surprised it's not in an OBS's role to at least bring to the attention of the driver that they may be unintentionally running early. But if it isn't, fair enough I guess.

An OBS has nothing at all to do with dispatch. We may see a red. Nope, we see a nice shiny lights. We/OBS's only started to look out the doors at stations after too many folks needed assistance were being left behind. At the start we never had to go to the doors, just kept checking tickets.
Note: I'm unsure if new OBS's are even taught signals, they are not taught routes, so would have no idea what many mean anyway.

 

[nuts & bolts]

Remember that GWR doesn't do Delay Repay.

(And trains reaching Reading early is common these days as they are still using HST timings whereas the IETs can operate on electric from Bristol Parkway/Swindon)

GWR offer compensation see here :
https://www.gwr.com/help-and-support/refunds-and-compensation/delay-compensation

 

[Kite159]

GWR offer compensation see here :
https://www.gwr.com/help-and-support/refunds-and-compensation/delay-compensation

However that isn't Delay Repay, rather than the older Passenger Charter compensation scheme which is more limited in what it pays out.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Anything before the booked minute will show as early. In this case, 08:05:59 would show 1E.

Dispatch process is started at T-minus 40seconds, and then departs as soon as that is complete. It is feasible to do that in 26seconds with an IET.

IETs on electric are cutting about 4-5minutes early on arrival at Bristol Parkway, Swindon and Reading at the moment in their respective directions, due to running on HST timings. My usual trains home are xx39 Swanseas from Swindon. In HST days, we'd arrive at Parkway just as the XC Scotland was pulling in from Temple Meads. Now, it's quite common to beat the terminating unit that runs ahead of the XC up Filton Bank, and sit there for a good 6or7 minutes. Long story short, it's arrival at Reading isn't a reflection of how it was running on diesel along the Stroud Valley.

The way TRUST timings work, it is quite common for trains running Right Time to show "Reported dep. 1E"

 

[Mag_seven]

In HST days, we'd arrive at Parkway just as the XC Scotland was pulling in from Temple Meads. Now, it's quite common to beat the terminating unit that runs ahead of the XC up Filton Bank, and sit there for a good 6or7 minutes.

Really good for those travelling to Birmingham from Swindon not wishing to use the slow route via Stroud!

 

[tiptoptaff]

Really good for those travelling to Birmingham from Swindon not wishing to use the slow route via Stroud!

Indeed but not a booked connection, as officially they arrive and depart all within two minutes.

I'd like to add that I have got my half-hours mixed up, and the Swanseas have a 5minute connection with the Manchester at BPW, and the Cardiffs have a 1minute connection with the Scotlands - it is the Cardiffs that will now make that connection comfortably (if officially invalid)

 

[pdsalford]

As a Northern passenger, we're just grateful for a train turning up at all!

 

[cakehoover]

Thank you @yorkie and @ForTheLoveOf! I wrote to GWR and they agreed that yes, it had departed early. And since the next train was the 9.08, so I was delayed more than an hour, they also refunded the cost of my ticket

 

[yorkie]

That's good to hear, and also good they replied so promptly!

 

[farleigh]

Doors close up to 2 minutes before departure depending on the TOC and station, so you've nothing to complain about.

I think this is incorrect

 

[Hadders]

I think this is incorrect

Doors are certainly advertised as being closed up to 2 minutes before departure on Virgin trains at Euston and LNER at Kings Cross. As I originally said it depends on the TOC and the station.