Is Grayling the worst Secretary of State for Transport ever?

[Edders23]

was it Lord Adonis who showed his great wealth of railway knowledge when he got on a tube train and asked where the buffet car was ?

 

[yorksrob]

marples was in the job out of self interest but I think Barbara Castle did as much damage to the railways in my opinion

I think Fraser was as bad as Marples because he blinkardly stuck to Marples's policy, even though his Government had been elected to change it.

Whilst Castle did do a lot of damage, and arguably didn't change policy nearly enough, she did at least change policy to the extent of enabling the maintenance of railways in rural areas for social reasons, and as importantly urban areas outside of London. Had that change in policy not been implemented, the consequences for transport in the country as a whole, and in particular for urban areas would have been dire.

The breathyliser was also a step forward.

 

[furnessvale]

was it Lord Adonis who showed his great wealth of railway knowledge when he got on a tube train and asked where the buffet car was ?

I think Lord Adonis was a mere twinkle in his dad's eye when that particular anecdote first saw light of day!

 

[Busaholic]

was it Lord Adonis who showed his great wealth of railway knowledge when he got on a tube train and asked where the buffet car was ?

But did he ask the right person i.e. the flunkied footman who guards each door of the tube train?

 

[squizzler]

In the wake of the Seabourne Freight farce and renewed calls for Grayling to quit, I thought it would be remiss not to revisit this thread.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...y-fiasco-seaborne-freight-transport-secretary

I think the rail community has to ensure cancelled electrification stays high on the rap-sheet against the man, as this would add pressure for a new broom to overturn these decisions.

As for what Grayling might want to consider doing with the money that would have been budgeted for Seabourne, might I suggest the airline Flybe is for sale and the current offer is only 1p per share? Hypothetically, owning a fleet of turboprop aircraft capable of operating from secondary airfields with shorter runways might be handy if, say, a political class needed to evacuate itself and its friends in a hurry from a country that has descended into anarchy. Just sayin'

 

[Cardiff123]

In the wake of the Seabourne Freight farce and renewed calls for Grayling to quit, I thought it would be remiss not to revisit this thread.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...y-fiasco-seaborne-freight-transport-secretary

I think the rail community has to ensure cancelled electrification stays high on the rap-sheet against the man, as this would add pressure for a new broom to overturn these decisions.

As for what Grayling might want to consider doing with the money that would have been budgeted for Seabourne, might I suggest the airline Flybe is for sale and the current offer is only 1p per share? Hypothetically, owning a fleet of turboprop aircraft capable of operating from secondary airfields with shorter runways might be handy if, say, a political class needed to evacuate itself and its friends in a hurry from a country that has descended into anarchy. Just sayin'

Here' the main section of the story for anyone interested:

Brexit: sack Grayling over ferry fiasco, demand MPs

Cross-party calls for transport secretary’s dismissal follow collapse of £13.8m contract to Seaborne Freight

Theresa May faced cross-party calls to sack her transport secretary, Chris Grayling, last night, after the calamitous collapse of a no-deal Brexit ferry contract handed to a company with no ships.

Senior Tories said the prime minister had turned “a blind eye” to Grayling’s decision to award the £13.8m contract to Seaborne Freight to run ferries between Ramsgate and Ostend, despite widespread derision and accusations that it had been awarded illegally.

The collapse of the contract comes amid growing unease in the international business community about Britain’s preparedness for a no-deal outcome, with less than 50 days until Brexit is due to take place.

Several MPs suggested Grayling should now consider his position after his department revealed the contract had been cancelled, and Bob Kerslake, the former head of the civil service, said the saga would “just confirm the view of many that this country is in a mess”.

Anna Soubry, a former Tory business minister, said Grayling “should be quietly considering his position”.

“Chris Grayling holds a critical position in government, trying to mitigate what would be a very serious crisis for the country if we leave the European Union without a deal,” she said. “He has no grip on the very serious nature of his job. The prime minister should also be considering whether there is not someone else who could do the job better.”

Another senior Tory MP said Grayling was a “walking disaster zone”, adding: “A no-deal Brexit would be a major national crisis and stories like this suggest we have not got the people in place who are capable of responding to it.”

Another said: “Grayling never has a grip on the detail, as the Seaborne mess shows. His Heathrow proposal will be just the same but way more costly. The PM just turns a blind eye, for some reason.”

Andy McDonald, the shadow transport secretary, said: “While Theresa May needs the few friends she has right now, we cannot have this incompetent transport secretary heaping humiliation after humiliation on our country. He has to go.”

Joining the attacks, Vince Cable, the Lib Dem leader, said: “I very rarely call on ministers to go, but failing Grayling has made too many crass mistakes. He has already lost the confidence of the civil service as they now require a ministerial directive for the government to spend money on ferries.”

Downing Street last night said the prime minister had full confidence in Grayling.

Of course TM has 'full confidence' in him, she's got no one else left to replace him! He ticks all the right boxes - he's a Brexiteer and a May loyalist. So with one of the biggest political crises the UK has ever seen approaching in the next 6 weeks I don't see him going anywhere. However in 'normal' political times he would be gone this weekend. What a mess the country is in that Grayling stays in govt just because he ticks boxes not because he's actually capable of doing the job.

 

[433N]

^^^
Of course, much of what you have said about Grayling applies to May too.

In 'normal' political times she would be gone by now.
What a mess the country is in that May stays in govt just because the Tories cannot put up anyone better, not because she's actually capable of doing the job.

 

[Mag_seven]

^^^
Of course, much of what you have said about Grayling applies to May too.

In 'normal' political times she would be gone by now.
What a mess the country is in that May stays in govt just because the Tories cannot put up anyone better, not because she's actually capable of doing the job.

Add to that we have the worst opposition in living memory as well - Labour should be miles ahead in the opinion polls.

 

[SC43090]

Failing Grayling is the worst, followed by Nicolas Ridley he gave us the shambles we now have on the buses by the 1986 Bus deregulation act.... The day the act come into force was 26th October 1986.....

SC 43090

 

[433N]

Add to that we have the worst opposition in living memory as well - Labour should be miles ahead in the opinion polls.

I am really struggling to understand what this has to do with the issue at hand.

It seems a common response these days.

"The Tories are rubbish"
"Labour are worse"
"No, they are not"
"Yes, they are"
...

No one knows how good Labour would be in government. No one.

 

[bramling]

I am really struggling to understand what this has to do with the issue at hand.

It seems a common response these days.

"The Tories are rubbish"
"Labour are worse"
"No, they are not"
"Yes, they are"
...

No one knows how good Labour would be in government. No one.

Whilst Corbyn’s opposition has got a bit better over time, the fact that no one really knows his Brexit policy among other things is pretty bad. Bashing the government is okay for an opposition, but a viable government-in-waiting needs to offer more.

Meanwhile the prospect of a government filled with the likes of McDonnell, Abbott and Lammy doesn’t seem to appeal to people. Can’t think why that might be!...

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Whilst Corbyn’s opposition has got a bit better over time, the fact that no one really knows his Brexit policy among other things is pretty bad. Bashing the government is okay for an opposition, but a viable government-in-waiting needs to offer more.

Meanwhile the prospect of a government filled with the likes of McDonnell, Abbott and Lammy doesn’t seem to appeal to people. Can’t think why that might be!...

It reflects the general lack of confidence held by so much of the general public in politicians full stop. I was surprised to hear of members of the loyalist community in NI saying that they despair of the DUP despite, apparently, having elected them. When normal political affinity in NI is breaking down you there's a real problem. And it's difficult to see a way out...

 

[Cardiff123]

Whilst Corbyn’s opposition has got a bit better over time, the fact that no one really knows his Brexit policy among other things is pretty bad. Bashing the government is okay for an opposition, but a viable government-in-waiting needs to offer more.

Meanwhile the prospect of a government filled with the likes of McDonnell, Abbott and Lammy doesn’t seem to appeal to people. Can’t think why that might be!...

Most likely because of the rabidly right wing press that we have in this country that has been poisoning people's mind's when it comes to Corbyn and his shadow cabinet since the day he was elected as Labour leader in 2015.
I happen to think that David Lammy is a superb politician when it comes to calling out May's government - whether it's on Windrush or Brexit. Of course if you're a Leaver or a Tory you'll disagree with me.

 

[Busaholic]

Whilst Corbyn’s opposition has got a bit better over time, the fact that no one really knows his Brexit policy among other things is pretty bad. Bashing the government is okay for an opposition, but a viable government-in-waiting needs to offer more.

Meanwhile the prospect of a government filled with the likes of McDonnell, Abbott and Lammy doesn’t seem to appeal to people. Can’t think why that might be!...

I wonder why you put David Lammy's name in there - hardly a Corbynista, and very out of favour with that wing of the party. He'd not be offered a cabinet post by a Corbyn/McDonnell cabal.

 

[Busaholic]

I happen to think that David Lammy is a superb politician when it comes to calling out May's government - whether it's on Windrush or Brexit. Of course if you're a Leaver or a Tory you'll disagree with me.

He's developed a hell of a lot since his early days in Parliament: personally, I'd like to have seen him selected as Labour's London mayoralty candidate. He'd make a much better fist than Sadiq Khan of both transport and policing imo and pin the blame for a lot of things on government underfunding which Khan appears mystifyingly reluctant to do.

 

[DarloRich]

Here' the main section of the story for anyone interested:


Of course TM has 'full confidence' in him, she's got no one else left to replace him! He ticks all the right boxes - he's a Brexiteer and a May loyalist. So with one of the biggest political crises the UK has ever seen approaching in the next 6 weeks I don't see him going anywhere. However in 'normal' political times he would be gone this weekend. What a mess the country is in that Grayling stays in govt just because he ticks boxes not because he's actually capable of doing the job.

that isn't the situation though is it? Grayling is useless at everything BUT being a shield for May. Look at the press. It is about Grayling being useless not how May is useless for appointing him! He clearly still has his uses

Add to that we have the worst opposition in living memory as well - Labour should be miles ahead in the opinion polls.

Yep and Crobyn has a personal opinion rating of about -75. The worst ever for an Opposition leader.

 

[bramling]

I wonder why you put David Lammy's name in there - hardly a Corbynista, and very out of favour with that wing of the party. He'd not be offered a cabinet post by a Corbyn/McDonnell cabal.

Perhaps because those names are the *only* Labour politicians who go as far as being household names and having *any* kind of profile. One could perhaps add Ken Livingstone whom many also associate with Corbyn, and is one of the few other Labour politicians who has a profile - albeit nowadays generally for all the wrong reasons.

Hardly a government-in-waiting.

 

[Cardiff123]

Perhaps because those names are the *only* Labour politicians who go as far as being household names and having *any* kind of profile. One could perhaps add Ken Livingstone whom many also associate with Corbyn, and is one of the few other Labour politicians who has a profile - albeit nowadays generally for all the wrong reasons.

Hardly a government-in-waiting.

I'm no fan of Corbyn, but apart from Cameron, Osborne and perhaps May, who were 'household names' in the shadow Tory cabinet before the 2010 general election?

 

[whittlesfordok]

He is a very good smokescreen. The ferries situation was a lot poor reporting by the media and it got Ramsgate port dredged for the cost of setting up the deal.

 

[sprunt]

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Paul Channon in this thread. A lot of John Prescott's rise to prominence came on the back of the fact that he had the good fortune to be Channon's shadow, and he duly spent a lot of time giving him an easy but well deserved kicking. Channon was the one who had a Spitting Image puppet with labels saying "arse" and "elbow" on the relevant bits of his body to help him remember.

 

[si404]

A lot of John Prescott's rise to prominence came on the back of the fact that he had the good fortune to be Channon's shadow

That being John Prescott, the SoS for Transport who merged the role, and department, with others as it he didn't see it as important?

Goodness me - Channon must have been truly atrocious...

 

[HH]

I'm no fan of Corbyn, but apart from Cameron, Osborne and perhaps May, who were 'household names' in the shadow Tory cabinet before the 2010 general election?

Clegg?

 

[JamesT]

I'm no fan of Corbyn, but apart from Cameron, Osborne and perhaps May, who were 'household names' in the shadow Tory cabinet before the 2010 general election?

Reading the last table in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_Cabinet_of_David_Cameron there are a few more names I recognise. But it's hard to remember whether they're known for what they did after the election rather than before.
William Hague and Ken Clarke would definitely fit as well-known. Possibly Liam Fox and Oliver Letwin?
Finally, although he resigned from the shadow cabinet before 2010, I think David Davis would count as well known from his unsuccessful leadership bid and his time as shadow Home Secretary, which does tend to have a higher profile than many other shadow posts.

 

[cactustwirly]

I am really struggling to understand what this has to do with the issue at hand.

It seems a common response these days.

"The Tories are rubbish"
"Labour are worse"
"No, they are not"
"Yes, they are"
...

No one knows how good Labour would be in government. No one.

They have Dianne Abbot! The one person more incompetent than Grayling!

 

[A Challenge]

Clegg?

Clegg wasn't in the pre-2010 cabinet though?

 

[HH]

Clegg wasn't in the pre-2010 cabinet though?

That's why there's the "devil smiley"...

 

[bringbackcrouc]

One of the advantages of having Grayling there is that he appears to be committed to HS2. If another SoS comes in, they’ll have to be convinced f it’s benefits.

That said, could someone advise me if HS2 is too far along to be cancelled?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

One of the advantages of having Grayling there is that he appears to be committed to HS2. If another SoS comes in, they’ll have to be convinced f it’s benefits.

Chris Grayling is also convinced of the need to re-establish something like the Strategic Rail Authority to stop the DfT from micro-managing everything.

 

[A Challenge]

People may be interest in today's Profile from BBC Radio 4, on Chris Grayling: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0002l0f

This programme is a profile on Chris Grayling, and provides a life history, including his work for the BBC and becoming a Counsellor for Merton as well as his time in government

The transport secretary's critics call him “failing Grayling" - an unkind nickname, perhaps, but one made more likely to stick by his infamous decision to award a valuable contract to a Brexit ferry company with no ferries. He cancelled the contract this week amid much derision in Parliament.

Presenter: Mark Coles
Producer; Sally Abrahams

 

[thejuggler]

He has just cost us £33m in his current role due to the emergency ferry debacle, but that is minor compared to the £500m bill to pay for the disastrous probation services contracts he awarded in his previous role.