ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[43096]

I just read that email too! I wonder if this will mean an additional 6 Power Cars on a short term hire from GWR (or the ROSCO they will probably have returned them to), or will they be able to make another 3 sets out of the power car allocations (unrefurbished) we have now? Plenty of spare trailers kicking about, I'm sure.

ScotRail don’t need 6 extra power cars: they have 44 in Scotland (with 2 at Doncaster and 8 at Brush) to resource 15 or so sets currently. Adding another 3 sets requires 36 power cars (and some sets will be spare) - should be easily achievable.

 

[380101]

ScotRail don’t need 6 extra power cars: they have 44 in Scotland (with 2 at Doncaster and 8 at Brush) to resource 15 or so sets currently. Adding another 3 sets requires 36 power cars (and some sets will be spare) - should be easily achievable.

They're using existing Power cars on the ScotRail fleet. The only additional stock coming is enough mk3 coaches to make up the additional 3 sets. Plans for moving them up from Ely are underway.

 

[jingsmonty]

They're using existing Power cars on the ScotRail fleet. The only additional stock coming is enough mk3 coaches to make up the additional 3 sets. Plans for moving them up from Ely are underway.

Exactly right - I forgot about the stock at Ely

 

[cadder toad]

On 18 March 43148 was the rear power car on 838 from Queen St to Aberdeen. 43036 did the same job the next day.

 

[SC43090]

Does anyone know which refurb sets are which, coach number and set number?

Thanks,
Nat

The Three sets that have been refurbished & are now with Scotrail are as follows

Cannot remember the number that 40604 carried before refurbishment as its on my desk at work.....

HA24

40604

42183

42559

42343


HA25

40602.........old number 41038

42045

42562

42292


HA26

40601.........old number 41032

42004

42561

42046

SC 43090

 

[nat67]

The Three sets that have been refurbished & are now with Scotrail are as follows

Cannot remember the number that 40604 carried before refurbishment as its on my desk at work.....

HA24

40604

42183

42559

42343


HA25

40602.........old number 41038

42045

42562

42292


HA26

40601.........old number 41032

42004

42561

42046

SC 43090

Thanks Chief.

 

[Highland37]

The three extra classic sets are good news and well done Scotrail.

 

[alangla]

The three extra classic sets are good news and well done Scotrail.

Only if they can crew them

 

[Wst71Pa2]

I would suggest an extra 3 will just fill the void of the unavailability of the current bunch, doesn't improve anything just getting back to nose above water

 

[Stoney1979]

I would suggest an extra 3 will just fill the void of the unavailability of the current bunch, doesn't improve anything just getting back to nose above water

Guessing you're a glass-is-half-empty kind of person?

How can it be negative that more stock is coming? SR have been instructed to come up with a remedial plan. They have done that. I am glad to see that action is being taken, at last. Given the circumstances, it makes perfect sense to bring in some more HST classics while the rufurbs come along. There's been substantial whinging about lights, and toilets, and so on, but overall more HSTs on the rails in Scotland = improved overall services.

 

[Wst71Pa2]

Guessing you're a glass-is-half-empty kind of person?

How can it be negative that more stock is coming? SR have been instructed to come up with a remedial plan. They have done that. I am glad to see that action is being taken, at last. Given the circumstances, it makes perfect sense to bring in some more HST classics while the rufurbs come along. There's been substantial whinging about lights, and toilets, and so on, but overall more HSTs on the rails in Scotland = improved overall services.

Realistic, last week there were only 4 fully operational sets!

 

[Stoney1979]

Realistic, last week there were only 4 fully operational sets!

Yes, I know, but what's the alternative? You either look for the positives and try to make the best of it, or you don't.

 

[SC43090]

Incidentally, the Scotrail team at Wabtec posted photos of sets 4 & 5 side by side, along with some interior shots. Still fitting out, but hopefully not that far away from release.

Is there any of those pictures in the public domain.....

SC 43090

 

[43096]

Yes, I know, but what's the alternative? You either look for the positives and try to make the best of it, or you don't.

ScotRail could try doing some maintenance on them. 4 from 10 sets is absolutely shockingly bad - they are not that hard to keep running.

 

[Wst71Pa2]

There's simply not enough reliable and available to run the diagrams and do any training, hard to make the best of that. Add 3 more yeah fine but unless there's some good news to do with training in the "remedial plan" then look out.

They might or might not be hard to keep running, I'm not a fitter, but unless you " know what you are doing" it isn't going to help

 

[Darandio]

Yes, I know, but what's the alternative? You either look for the positives and try to make the best of it, or you don't.

This seems to take a very railway enthusiast type of view. Does the person on the platform paying a handsome sum, yet cannot get to work on time need to just look for the positives?

 

[Stoney1979]

[

This seems to take a very railway enthusiast type of view. Does the person on the platform paying a handsome sum, yet cannot get to work on time need to just look for the positives?

Possibly not, but are they more likely to achieve what you suggest, and we all want, on a 170 or 158 or an HST? Also, is answering a question with another question very progressive?

 

[Stoney1979]

Keep coming back to the same point here. The HSTs, in whatever form, are the foreseeable future on Intercity ScotRail. You can either sit/type moaning about it, or suck it up and try to make the best of the reality.

 

[jingsmonty]

Is there any of those pictures in the public domain.....

SC 43090

They were posted on Twitter by the Scotrail social media team. For everyone to see, not just staff.

 

[jingsmonty]

ScotRail could try doing some maintenance on them. 4 from 10 sets is absolutely shockingly bad - they are not that hard to keep running.

There's simply not enough reliable and available to run the diagrams and do any training, hard to make the best of that. Add 3 more yeah fine but unless there's some good news to do with training in the "remedial plan" then look out.

They might or might not be hard to keep running, I'm not a fitter, but unless you " know what you are doing" it isn't going to help

What also doesn't help is that there are sets used for driver training as well (as least one, in Inverness). This is for 2 out of every 3 weeks.

I wonder if HA24 will be used on the next Inverness course? Doesn't make much difference to us drivers & would allow the Conductor training on the refurbished set to go ahead in tandem.

The reliability does need to improve, that's true. Remember, HST operation is new to Scotrail & is a pretty steep learning curve for everyone! There's a in-depth plan of modifications (some minor & some more extensive) to both some components & the maintenance schedules to improve things.

 

[jingsmonty]

This seems to take a very railway enthusiast type of view. Does the person on the platform paying a handsome sum, yet cannot get to work on time need to just look for the positives?

More seats, faster trains. There's a positive for you. Granted, the benefits won't be anywhere fully realised until the refurbished fleet is fully in service, but the passengers actually seem to quite like them, even the Classic sets. The capacity increase over a 170 is useful & the more HSTs that run, the less that DMUs will be robbed from other services to substitute for them (so, less cancellations & short forming). A good thing. A 'positive'.

 

[jingsmonty]

Keep coming back to the same point here. The HSTs, in whatever form, are the foreseeable future on Intercity ScotRail. You can either sit/type moaning about it, or suck it up and try to make the best of the reality.

Exactly, Stoney 1979 - I think the 3 extra sets will help a lot. At least HST turns should actually be formed of HSTs! Wouldn't be the 1st time I've been waiting for an HST to turn up & a 158 rolls in - probably means a service somewhere else is running about short formed as a result - or cancelled altogether (seems to be Haymarket 158s that substitute, so I'm guessing that Central Belt diesel services are taking a hit just now).

Also, the 1st 2 refurbished sets are due to be in service - another 2 classics freed up there. If HA24 is used for the driver training train in Inverness, that's another classic freed up too.

It's slow & painful, but (to quote the old BR advert) " we're getting there".....

 

[47271]

Reliability was always going to be what this project lived or died by. I've been very sceptical recently based on my experience of other aspects of poor planning and implementation, but I can see a world where they do get on top of it, and getting the classic sets at least to GWR levels of reliability would be a start. It just all seems so far off though.

It's a big mess, that's for sure.

 

[PG]

For anyone travelling today (Saturday) the 0942 ABD - GLQ 1T14 is a classic HST, didn't get any numbers.

If anybody knows the rest of the diagram its on please post for the benefit of other forum members, thanks

 

[jingsmonty]

Reliability was always going to be what this project lived or died by. I've been very sceptical recently based on my experience of other aspects of poor planning and implementation, but I can see a world where they do get on top of it, and getting the classic sets at least to GWR levels of reliability would be a start. It just all seems so far off though.

It's a big mess, that's for sure.

Hopefully things will improve in the near future - at least the most troublesome niggles have been identified & fixes planned. That will help. As will refurbished sets 4 & 5, once they appear

 

[Highlandspring]

For anyone travelling today (Saturday) the 0942 ABD - GLQ 1T14 is a classic HST, didn't get any numbers.

If anybody knows the rest of the diagram its on please post for the benefit of other forum members, thanks

HA05 43148 43140

1T14 0942 Aberdeen - Glasgow Queen Street
1A63 1238 Glasgow Queen Street- Aberdeen
1T38 1630 Aberdeen - Glasgow Queen Street
1A89 1940 Glasgow Queen Street - Aberdeen

 

[Goldromans]

Is there anyone with any kind of technical knowledge able to make guess at how long it will take Wabtec to finish the next couple of sets? Looking at the pictures ScotRail posted the other day, it looks as though the difficult stuff (doors and toilet tanks) has been done and it is all internal work left.

 

[Killingworth]

Is there any of those pictures in the public domain.....

SC 43090

From Scotrail Twitter so presumably in the public domain; https://twitter.com/ScotRail?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

and;

 

[jingsmonty]

Is there anyone with any kind of technical knowledge able to make guess at how long it will take Wabtec to finish the next couple of sets? Looking at the pictures ScotRail posted the other day, it looks as though the difficult stuff (doors and toilet tanks) has been done and it is all internal work left.

Not much technical knowledge from me, but I thought the same - they don't look that far from release.

My hope is that, now 3 sets (plus the XC/GWR sets too) have been completed, that the pace of work should pick up.

Sets 4 -7 are supposed to be 'in progress', with sets 8 & 9 onsite. Sets 4 & 5 definetly are - I'd guess these are the 2 closest to completion.

The staff training on the refurbished sets should be well in hand (if not completed) by the time these are released - they could, perhaps, be in service quicker than the 1st 3 sets? Hope so.

 

[Steven_G]

Is there anyone with any kind of technical knowledge able to make guess at how long it will take Wabtec to finish the next couple of sets? Looking at the pictures ScotRail posted the other day, it looks as though the difficult stuff (doors and toilet tanks) has been done and it is all internal work left.

Not sure. Pics from outside had plenty slam doors on both carriages