Uniforms - formal vs. informal?

[darloscott]

I’m amazed nobody has mentioned the DB uniform yet. I’ve not seen one of their staff that don’t look immaculate yet.
I have to say I agree with those who suggest the polos at Northern just look daft. I’m not sure what it is because when I was at Arriva as a bus driver we had the standard turquoise polos and they actually looked acceptable. When we launched the Sapphire brand it was required to wear shirt & tie which we all did and it looked amazing. Such a shame they’ve since ditched the dedicated uniform (& driving rota entirely!).
Agreed on staff wearing hiviz when not required, just looks a mess and there is no need, it’s just laziness.
I do think that the uniform should match the job role and for that reason being in charge of a train in my opinion demands something better than a polo shirt. It’s ok for maintenance staff or someone who wouldn’t normally be seen (eg signallers) but not for customer facing roles like drivers & guards.

 

[hooverboy]

Not ideal, but recoverable.



I hope you’re wearing Church’s? Preferably Oxfords, polished to a high shine. In a hot country Burwood-glossed-tan-leather brogues, or even loafers, might just about be acceptable.

haha!
that's a whole other level of corporate one-upmanship!
not saying it doesn't go on, but for sales and marketing guys this stuff is a bit penis envy!(nice shirts mind!!)

I do like to be smart when I go out to punters,but definitely don't engage in overkill.I'm not going for overkill because I'm not in sales!

 

[bionic]

I’m amazed nobody has mentioned the DB uniform yet. I’ve not seen one of their staff that don’t look immaculate yet.
I have to say I agree with those who suggest the polos at Northern just look daft. I’m not sure what it is because when I was at Arriva as a bus driver we had the standard turquoise polos and they actually looked acceptable. When we launched the Sapphire brand it was required to wear shirt & tie which we all did and it looked amazing. Such a shame they’ve since ditched the dedicated uniform (& driving rota entirely!).
Agreed on staff wearing hiviz when not required, just looks a mess and there is no need, it’s just laziness.
I do think that the uniform should match the job role and for that reason being in charge of a train in my opinion demands something better than a polo shirt. It’s ok for maintenance staff or someone who wouldn’t normally be seen (eg signallers) but not for customer facing roles like drivers & guards.

DB drivers in Germany wear civvies so I'd be quite happy with that. The idea that drivers should be forced to wear formal suit and tie type uniforms is a non-starter. Even if it was brought in the vast bulk of drivers would refuse to comply, and rightly so. I don't agree with much Richard Branson says but I make him right on the not wearing a tie thing.

 

[bramling]

When I'm dealing with a defective train or other situation the last thing I need is a load of people (apart from other drivers or fitters who might actually be able to help) coming up to me and asking stupid questions. I'm the driver and I'm dealing with it. The more daft questions you ask the longer it will take.

For the sort of incidents I'm thinking of, the driver is normally sitting in the chair looking up at the sky with sweat dripping off every part of the body!

But, more seriously, that's sort of my point - by being able to identify key staff it's also a subtle way of sidelining all the rest who don't need to be (directly) involved. As you rightly say, there will probably only be one or two people there who are capable of getting the train going - or are even allowed to touch it.

 

[hooverboy]

Yes, because when we are getting up at 0245 for an early shift we are really going to be ironing shirts, pressing trousers and polishing shoes!




you should have them ironed several days before you need them,or at least have an adequate supply.
nobody escapes ironing!
even when I'm away clothes get horribly creased from being stacked in a suitcase for several hours and I will usually spend the evening of my arrival prior to a customer visit giving them a good going over to look someway respectable.

If I can do that after an xx hour flight(sometimes with jet lag) then why can't you?

getting up early I do!!..by changing time zones!

 

[Eccles1983]

As one of the poor suffering crew I really couldn't care what the passengers thought of me wearing shorts or polos.

My responsibilities lie in the safe operation of the train. Period.

Now due to the ageing stock with substandard cooling systems I am well within my rights to cancel the service because heat is a distraction and being cooked in a cab is a major risk. Opening windows at 100mph = major distraction.

So if you are if the mindset that I should be wearing my Sunday best to sit in a metal box without ventilation for hours in end then don't be surprised when the train is cancelled.

Now northerns stuff is awful granted. But a neat polo shirt with trousers or shorts is sufficient.

Wearing a jacket or collar does not make me anymore professional. It's nonsense to suggest otherwise.

 

[hexagon789]

Personally for drivers/guards/catering staff I'd go for formal because it looks so much smarter in my opinion. Yes it doesn't necessarily ensure good standards of service, but a good image goes a long way I think.

 

[hooverboy]

Personally for drivers/guards/catering staff I'd go for formal because it looks so much smarter in my opinion. Yes it doesn't necessarily ensure good standards of service, but a good image goes a long way I think.

quite agree.
it's probably about number 3/4 on the list of priorities,but it's still important.
main thing is reliable+on time
2nd is train capacity
3rd is train comfort/amenities
4th is good crew.

I should put pricing in there somewhere,but that's sort of variable.As long as the above top 3 are fulfilled people will be happy(ish) to pay a small premium

as far as presentation is concerned, sorry snowflakes, but it is absolutely perceived that those who are either photogenic/well dressed are better at their jobs than those who are unkempt.
Doesn't matter what the reality is, it is the PERCEPTION that counts.

 

[dk1]

I detest wearing a tie & refuse to wear one at any other time in my life. Thankfully GA gave us the choice of informal which I took up years ago without hesitation. As drivers we are not really customer facing & saves us the confusion of passengers thinking we are,

 

[DarloRich]

A waistcoat should never be seen full stop.

i think a waistcoat is an acceptable part of a gentleman's wardrobe. The current craze for a waistcoat without a jacket is completely wrong.

I’ve heard it said that an immaculately clean hi-vi tells its own story. And in my experience there’s definitely some degree of truth to this!

My hi viz is kept clean. It is designed to be seen and I would like to be seen if required!

come on, this is the railway...you aren't going on holiday in dubai!

airline style dress will do quite nicely.
1)properly shined shoes
2)properly ironed trousers/ skirt )with "formal" type black or tan tights if ladies prefer.
3)properly ironed lightweight shirt/blouse-short or long sleeve of either neutral or company colour/emblazoned.
4)blazer/waistcoat optional
5)company tie/cravatte optional depending on weather/duties. if left off then company Logo's ID badge must be visible
6)ought to also say as well as presentable, said uniform needs to be workable in emergency/evacuation routines....so definitely flat shoes or boots/ perhaps reinforced(but not steel) toes.

Uniform needs to be appropriate to the roles under taken. What works for airlines may not be appropriate for the railways. BTW - I think your views here are old fashioned, stuffy and not reflective of the current world.

• Shined shoes. Is this school? How shiny will do?
• I have never ironed a pair of trousers in my life - my suits go to the cleaners!
• A tie isn't required in the majority of the business world. Why would one be needed on a train?
• A blazer. Really? Does it have a crest? is this a golf club?
• A smart polo shirt is perfectly acceptable

I also think formal, smart, shorts are perfectly acceptable in hot weather. I would love to be able to wear them at work!

How you dress has no bearing on your performance. If it is an emergency putting on a high via will get more attention than a silly name badge and the right colour tights!

Here here.

such stuffy nonsense

Yes, because when we are getting up at 0245 for an early shift we are really going to be ironing shirts, pressing trousers and polishing shoes!

you should have them ironed several days before you need them,or at least have an adequate supply.
nobody escapes ironing!
even when I'm away clothes get horribly creased from being stacked in a suitcase for several hours and I will usually spend the evening of my arrival prior to a customer visit giving them a good going over to look someway respectable.

If I can do that after an xx hour flight(sometimes with jet lag) then why can't you?

getting up early I do!!..by changing time zones!

unlike the perfection you display some of us are merely human.

 

[DarloRich]

as far as presentation is concerned, sorry snowflakes, but it is absolutely perceived that those who are either photogenic/well dressed are better at their jobs than those who are unkempt.

Only if you live in a old fashioned, stuffy world. The real world is changing. Perhaps if you didn't judge a book by its cover you would be better off.

 

[hooverboy]

I detest wearing a tie & refuse to wear one at any other time in my life. Thankfully GA gave us the choice of informal which I took up years ago without hesitation. As drivers we are not really customer facing & saves us the confusion of passengers thinking we are,

none too keen either, they feel terribly restictive.
I have to from time to time, but usually I can keep that to initial meetings.

 

[hooverboy]

Only if you live in a old fashioned, stuffy world. The real world is changing. Perhaps if you didn't judge a book by its cover you would be better off.

the whole world judges a book by it's cover.sad fact of life. true nonetheless

 

[cactustwirly]

i think a waistcoat is an acceptable part of a gentleman's wardrobe. The current craze for a waistcoat without a jacket is completely wrong.



My hi viz is kept clean. It is designed to be seen and I would like to be seen if required!



Uniform needs to be appropriate to the roles under taken. What works for airlines may not be appropriate for the railways. BTW - I think your views here are old fashioned, stuffy and not reflective of the current world.

• Shined shoes. Is this school? How shiny will do?
• I have never ironed a pair of trousers in my life - my suits go to the cleaners!
• A tie isn't required in the majority of the business world. Why would one be needed on a train?
• A blazer. Really? Does it have a crest? is this a golf club?
• A smart polo shirt is perfectly acceptable

I also think formal, smart, shorts are perfectly acceptable in hot weather. I would love to be able to wear them at work!

How you dress has no bearing on your performance. If it is an emergency putting on a high via will get more attention than a silly name badge and the right colour tights!



such stuffy nonsense



unlike the perfection you display some of us are merely human.

For a customer facing role, I don't think a Polo shirt is smart enough, I think it needs to be a shirt and tie/scarf.
Look at the continent, that's what they wear and it looks professional, which a Polo shirt doesn't to me.

 

[dk1]

none too keen either, they feel terribly restictive.
I have to from time to time, but usually I can keep that to initial meetings.

I would get out of those meetings haha. Ruddy restrictive nooses in my book. No thank you.

 

[hooverboy]

i think a waistcoat is an acceptable part of a gentleman's wardrobe. The current craze for a waistcoat without a jacket is completely wrong.



My hi viz is kept clean. It is designed to be seen and I would like to be seen if required!



Uniform needs to be appropriate to the roles under taken. What works for airlines may not be appropriate for the railways. BTW - I think your views here are old fashioned, stuffy and not reflective of the current world.

• Shined shoes. Is this school? How shiny will do?
• I have never ironed a pair of trousers in my life - my suits go to the cleaners!
• A tie isn't required in the majority of the business world. Why would one be needed on a train?
• A blazer. Really? Does it have a crest? is this a golf club?
• A smart polo shirt is perfectly acceptable

I also think formal, smart, shorts are perfectly acceptable in hot weather. I would love to be able to wear them at work!

How you dress has no bearing on your performance. If it is an emergency putting on a high via will get more attention than a silly name badge and the right colour tights!



such stuffy nonsense



unlike the perfection you display some of us are merely human.

I'm not perfect!!.

however with the job I do, I am moderately senior, and I am also an ambassador for the company, which I do take seriously.
with regards to attire, you need to set to your clients(and countries/customs). Ties may not be all the rage here anymore but there are some places where you are still expected to be formal.
(same with wording of emails!..Hi XXXXX is NOT an appropriate greeting for someone you have just met on the other side of the world....the formal dear sir/madam is required)

ps in an emergency you need the right kit to do the job.
so hi viz ,first aid ,intercom and loudhaler on hand in a cabinet somewhere at easy reach

 

[Hadders]

I’m all for style but substance is far more important in my opinion.

 

[bionic]

Some real dross being posted on here by people who don't do the job. Comfort and functionality are far more important than anything else.

 

[berwicksfinest]

Where can us Drivers be critical of our passengers attire ??

 

[hexagon789]

quite agree.
it's probably about number 3/4 on the list of priorities,but it's still important.
main thing is reliable+on time
2nd is train capacity
3rd is train comfort/amenities
4th is good crew.

They all come first of course...

as far as presentation is concerned, sorry snowflakes, but it is absolutely perceived that those who are either photogenic/well dressed are better at their jobs than those who are unkempt.
Doesn't matter what the reality is, it is the PERCEPTION that counts.

It does, I think a majority of people prefer staff who are dressed smartly than more informally. Staff are after all representing the company.

 

[cactustwirly]

Some real dross being posted on here by people who don't do the job. Comfort and functionality are far more important than anything else.

But as a paying passenger, we have expectations that the staff should be professional and smartly dressed

 

[221129]

But as a paying passenger, we have expectations that the staff should be professional and smartly dressed

As a paying passenger, you wont be going anywhere if my uniform is uncomfortable and causing a distraction.

 

[LowLevel]

I wear steel toe boots because as a guard on occasion I end up on the track or having things dropped on my feet.

I always make sure I am clean and presentable when I start my shift but I don't always end that way - that's the nature of railway work. Whether it's paddling through excrement to isolated a flooded toilet or being thrown up on by a drunk there's plenty of opportunity to be messed up in my line of work.

Also when I'm soaked to the skin with sweat in a plastic shirt at 35 degrees I don't look particularly appealing.

 

[hexagon789]

Some real dross being posted on here by people who don't do the job. Comfort and functionality are far more important than anything else.

And one can't be both comfortable and dressed smartly?

 

[cactustwirly]

As a paying passenger, you wont be going anywhere if my uniform is uncomfortable and causing a distraction.

What's so difficult, European railways have a smart uniform, so why can't we?

 

[hexagon789]

What's so difficult, European railways have a smart uniform, so why can't we?

Exactly, surely if it's smart but not comfortable it's either the material or more likely the fit to blame than the uniform itself.

 

[dk1]

What's so difficult, European railways have a smart uniform, so why can't we?

Because we do not want to be in Europe. We are British first & foremost

 

[hexagon789]

Because we do not want to be in Europe. We are British first & foremost

Don't most European drivers not wear a uniform though? It's only guards/catering staff that do?

 

[DarloRich]

For a customer facing role, I don't think a Polo shirt is smart enough, I think it needs to be a shirt and tie/scarf.
Look at the continent, that's what they wear and it looks professional, which a Polo shirt doesn't to me.

I don't care what they do on the continent. What works there may not work here. Ties are certainly a no non here.

Comfort and functionality are far more important than anything else.

Correct.

however with the job I do, I am moderately senior, and I am also an ambassador for the company, which I do take seriously.
with regards to attire, you need to set to your clients(and countries/customs). Ties may not be all the rage here anymore but there are some places where you are still expected to be formal.

OBVIOUSLY You have to dress appropriately for the environment. What you suggest above is certainly not, in my experience, suitable for the environment on the railway. I have been involved in procuring uniform for 1000's of people and if you told the focus groups involved that they had to wear a shirt, tie, blazer (!) and the right colour tights they would go mad! They want uniform that is:

• Practical
• Modern
• Safe (where it needs to be such as safety shoes)
• Well tailored with proper size rangers for both men and women
• Well made
• Easy to care for
• Cool in summer
• Warm in winter
• Smart

(same with wording of emails!..Hi XXXXX is NOT an appropriate greeting for someone you have just met on the other side of the world....the formal dear sir/madam is required)

I know how to write a letter thanks. I have done it often enough for matters vastly more important than many here ever will! BTW you don't start it dear Sir/Madam. Ever.

 

[hooverboy]

And one can't be both comfortable and dressed smartly?

precisely, you need comfort, functionality and resilience in case of unforseen mishaps