Unknowing misuse of staff nominee pass - so worried

[WesternLancer]

Whilst these things are 'perks' they ARE clearly part of the staff remuneration package so it's a legit issue for the unions to take an interest in I would say - and try to get TfL to give clearer help to users who are be definiton not railway people themselves in many cases.

 

[221129]

Whilst these things are 'perks' they ARE clearly part of the staff remuneration package so it's a legit issue for the unions to take an interest in I would say - and try to get TfL to give clearer help to users who are be definiton not railway people themselves in many cases.

The unions generally wont touch it. Because it is non contractual TfL can pull it all at anytime.

 

[benk1342]

The question about tapping in was that *if* that had been done (and we now know it wasn't), would it have been rejected as invalid for use on any services from this station (which should have caused the OP to realise they needed to use an alternative), or would it have given an incorrect 'valid' indication (which would have helped explain the OP's mistake)?

It would have beeped as invalid.

 

[benk1342]

The unions generally wont touch it. Because it is non contractual TfL can pull it all at anytime.

Not sure I agree. The fact that it hasn’t been pulled or limited yet is due in part to the fact that the unions would raise hell if this perk was removed, I believe.

 

[jumble]

Its not a PRIV Oystercard. That is something different. It is a TfL Nominee Staff Pass
I do feel sorry for dependants / partners etc. It really is very complicated, and a lot of them are nervous about using these facilities

I don't understand
Which rules are not clear?
Is there no where to email and get confirmation if there is doubt?

 

[Surreytraveller]

I don't understand
Which rules are not clear?
Is there no where to email and get confirmation if there is doubt?

I didn't say the rules aren't clear. I said its complicated, as proved by the posts on this thread, such as the pass being referred to as a 'PRIV Oystercard', posters believing the pass needs to be tapped in and out. To fully understand the rules, you need to be on the spectrum, and its difficult enough for people within the industry to understand them, let alone those outside the industry

 

[FartinLewis]

Found https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/requ...eting discounts photocards section Sep....pdf on Google. A bit out of date but I found it interesting none the less!

 

[Haywain]

its complicated, as proved by the posts on this thread

Many of the posts on this thread are from people who have no access to a nominee pass and would not therefore know the actual rules of use. It is not an indication of complicated rules, more one of uninformed guesswork.

 

[Goldfish62]

Many of the posts on this thread are from people who have no access to a nominee pass and would not therefore know the actual rules of use. It is not an indication of complicated rules, more one of uninformed guesswork.

Agreed. I do wish the OP well and hope she gets off with minimal sanction as its obvious she has made a genuine mistake.

However, as a holder of a staff pass and now a retired staff pass holder the rules are not at all complex. They're valid on all TfL services and a very restricted list of national rail services, end of.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

However, as a holder of a staff pass and now a retired staff pass holder the rules are not at all complex. They're valid on all TfL services and a very restricted list of national rail services, end of.

So if the staff pass held by ElaineSt's husband does not allow travel on GA services, she is in a sticky predicament.

To LouiseSt..

1. Please read the T&C's of your husband's staff pass to check if travel on GA services is permitted (or not)
2. Wait for the letter from GA and put some money aside towards paying a settlement to keep the matter out of court

 

[WesternLancer]

So if the staff pass held by ElaineSt's husband does not allow travel on GA services, she is in a sticky predicament.

To ElaineSt..

1. Please read the T&C's of your husband's staff pass to check if travel on GA services is permitted (or not)
2. Wait for the letter from GA and put some money aside towards paying a settlement to keep the matter out of court

OP is LouiseST

 

[Islineclear3_1]

So, can we now wait for LouiseSt to come back here once she has received the letter?

Hopefully she will have by now read the T&C's of her husband's pass and will have a better understanding of where she stands

 

[Mawkie]

For the avoidance of doubt (from May 2018).

 

[matt_world2004]

For the avoidance of doubt (from May 2018).

Reading that document it appears to suggest the guy who had his details taken for using a LU paper ticket to Heathrow on the TfL rail was correct.

 

[Goldfish62]

For the avoidance of doubt (from May 2018).

What is interesting is that VT between Euston and Watford is shown as valid. There was a dispute a couple of years ago between TfL and VT because VT correctly stated that local journeys on their services between Euston and Watford were not advertised, so they regarded staff passes for such journeys to be invalid. TfL challenged this, but I never did hear the outcome. Certainly my union, Unite, got involved.

 

[RJ]

What is interesting is that VT between Euston and Watford is shown as valid. There was a dispute a couple of years ago between TfL and VT because VT correctly stated that local journeys on their services between Euston and Watford were not advertised, so they regarded staff passes for such journeys to be invalid. TfL challenged this, but I never did hear the outcome. Certainly my union, Unite, got involved.

What was the outcome of that dispute?

 

[matt_world2004]

The pass is valid to Watford junction but only when split with a season ticket.

 

[Surreytraveller]

The pass is valid to Watford junction but only when split with a season ticket.

Maybe that's too complicated for Tfl to understand?

 

[Goldfish62]

The pass is valid to Watford junction but only when split with a season ticket.

Ah, got it thanks.

 

[Goldfish62]

Maybe that's too complicated for Tfl to understand?

Bit of an unnecessary remark.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Bit of an unnecessary remark.

TfL fares are a 'simple' zonal system. National Rail fares are vastly more complicated, and TfL staff are known for not having a clue. Imagine LU trying to have things like Pick Up or Set Down Only, which is where this rule would come from.
And that document from a few posts ago makes no mention of the fact it needs to be combined with a season ticket
Also note that the usual fares experts on this forum have been absent from this thread, probably because National Rail and TfL fares systems are completely different, especially when it comes to staff passes, so they perhaps don't want to get involved in the discussion?

 

[najaB]

Also note that the usual fares experts on this forum have been absent from this thread, probably because National Rail and TfL fares systems are completely different, especially when it comes to staff passes, so they perhaps don't want to get involved in the discussion?

More likely since the OP got the correct answer about 40 posts back...

 

[matt_world2004]

TfL fares are a 'simple' zonal system. National Rail fares are vastly more complicated, and TfL staff are known for not having a clue. Imagine LU trying to have things like Pick Up or Set Down Only, which is where this rule would come from.
And that document from a few posts ago makes no mention of the fact it needs to be combined with a season ticket
Also note that the usual fares experts on this forum have been absent from this thread, probably because National Rail and TfL fares systems are completely different, especially when it comes to staff passes, so they perhaps don't want to get involved in the discussion?

TfL Do understand it. vtwc sells a season ticket for TfL staff that only goes to Watford junction at 75% discount.

 

[LouiseSt]

I posted on here back in October following a misunderstanding (on my part) of the use of my own staff nominee pass. I was cautioned and questioned over it, my details taken and a piece of paper from the interviewers notebook signed by myself. However, 5 months later I still haven’t heard a thing from the train company - not an opportunity to offer my side of the story, nothing. My pass was not confiscated and it still works. My question is could I still be contacted on this? Could it go straight to Court with no opportunity for me to even explain the situation in writing and when would I be notified of this?

this still hanging over me is extremely stressful on top of everything else.

thanks in advance for any advice/views

 

[island]

It can go straight to court, yes.

They have six months to lay the information before the court.

Did you give them your correct address? Have you changed address since?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

To expand a little on @island 's posting

They have six months to lay the information before the court.

Once the information is with the court, it's up to the court to get the summons to you. I don't know if there is a time limit for the court to do this. But in normal times, that would mean that you need to wait for maybe seven months after the incident (six months to lay the information, maybe one month for the court to issue the summons) before you could assume you won't be prosecuted. In the current emergency, you may need to leave a little longer (another month?) - the courts will probably be sending staff home just like every other employer, and work will back up. I know this won't help with the stress that you are almost certainly feeling at the moment.

Did you give them your correct address? Have you changed address since?

If you have changed address, then you should set up a mail redirect with the Royal Mail - see https://www.royalmail.com/personal/receiving-mail/redirection. That way, you can be reasonably certain of getting anything sent to you - and no-one can argue that you were running away from being contacted.

 

[LouiseSt]

Hello. No I haven’t changed address and yes I have them the correct information which he also called through and verified whilst I was there. It just seems strange that I received no opportunity to put across my version of events/any defence.

 

[Llanigraham]

Once the information is with the court, it's up to the court to get the summons to you. I don't know if there is a time limit for the court to do this. But in normal times, that would mean that you need to wait for maybe seven months after the incident (six months to lay the information, maybe one month for the court to issue the summons) before you could assume you won't be prosecuted. In the current emergency, you may need to leave a little longer (another month?) - the courts will probably be sending staff home just like every other employer, and work will back up. I know this won't help with the stress that you are almost certainly feeling at the moment.

Not correct.
The prosecuting body will notify the Court that they want to take x number of cases on a particular date and send the Court copies of their paperwork. The Court clerk will (generally) agree with those and send them back to the prosecuting body and it is THEM that then post the Summons (issue is the legal term) to the miscreant, not the Court.

 

[najaB]

Hello. No I haven’t changed address and yes I have them the correct information which he also called through and verified whilst I was there. It just seems strange that I received no opportunity to put across my version of events/any defence.

There's nothing much more you can do than wait. As others have said if it gets to seven or eight months without hearing anything then it's equally probable that they decided not to progress with the matter but failed to inform you, or they made a mistake with your address and you've been convicted in your absence.

The latter might sound like a disaster but it is not. If you are truly unaware of court action being taken against you it is possible to file an affidavit to this effect (known as a Statutory Declaration) which resets the case back to the summons stage. At which point you can make representations to the prosecutor to drop or settle the case.

 

[father_jack]

I remember this thread at the time.

Well and truly snipped....

My pass was not confiscated and it still works.

It will work the gate but the gate doesn't what train you have arrived on or are getting on. What ticket are you using since for the Greater Anglia service nowadays ?