Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates

[Bletchleyite]

The red one is the passcomm. The green one is the call for aid.

If operated when departing from a station the red one will apply the brakes immediately. The driver cannot override this when departing from a station, so if you see something that is immediately life threatening such as a trap and drag incident, break the cover and hit the red button straight away. For anything that isn't immediately life threatening use the green one and the driver or guard will respond as soon as it is safe to do so.

Indeed, that's the German model and it makes a LOT of sense - most things don't require the train to stop (given that it's not DOO), but those things that do require it to stop tend to require it to stop NOW, not after a short discussion.

ISTR that all Eurostars (and probably TGVs by extension) have this setup as well. It may well I suppose be that Northern didn't specify anything other than its existence, so it just got what Spain fitted as standard.

 

[Mathew S]

Can someone please explain how these units can pass any safety testing when this morning arriving in Leeds on a packed commuter, two people get off, the third is approaching the doors, the door close goes off and he ends being pushed off the train by the closing doors.

After being on another service back from Leeds with three colleagues we are all of the opinion Northern have been ripped off.

The notice by the SOS button also makes no sense whatsoever.

I agree that some of the notices leave a lot to be desired. I disagree about the doors. Yes, they close unexpectedly on occasion, but whenever I've seen it happen (and that's got to be 20+ times by now) the door closing alarm always sounds, and the red door closing light flashes. On the one occasion it happened to me as I was boarding the train, it was obvious that something was amiss. Yes, it shouldn't happen but, insofar as I have seen, it's only a safety hazard to people who aren't paying attention.

 

[Grumpy Git]

CAD drawings are only as useful as person who typed in the figures... Is there any update to the 195 centre of excellence being ready at Newton Heath yet?

So its OK to build them to unchecked drawings?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree that some of the notices leave a lot to be desired

The one that gets me most is the one on the cab door saying Cab. Anyone who needs to know that already knows it. It just needs to say Private, Staff Only or similar like it does on every other train.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Gauge clearance is done using a software package / vehicle models. Physical runs are usually done for platform / train interface checks prior to service introduction (check stop positions / ASDO operation / signal sighting / door cameras among other things). There are no physical runs required to validate gauge clearance / the gauging certificate.

Thank god for that. I thought it was 1960 for a moment

 

[507021]

The one that gets me most is the one on the cab door saying Cab. Anyone who needs to know that already knows it. It just needs to say Private, Staff Only or similar like it does on every other train.

Does it really matter what it says on the cab door?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does it really matter what it says on the cab door?

It doesn't matter, but it is an example of the relative sloppiness of the on-board signage highlighted above.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Does it really matter what it says on the cab door?

Could be disappointing for anyone seeking free legal advice?

 

[pieguyrob]

195106 was at Blackpool North at 0025.

 

[Bovverboy]

195107 was at Blackpool North at 0022.

195116 was at Blackpool North at 0505.

195106 was at Blackpool North at 0025.

The 2234SuX service Manchester Airport to Blackpool North has been diagrammed for a 195 since 12/8/19, and has, since that date, always, or at least almost always, been formed from one.
After stabling overnight at the CMD the unit goes ECS to Lancaster to work 0559SuX Lancaster to Windermere. Sundays it rests at the CMD all day.

 

[pieguyrob]

Ah. That is good to know. Should there be a separate thread for sightings?

 

[Bovverboy]

Should there be a separate thread for sightings?

Your reports of 195s at Blackpool North seemed to imply that you'd no idea what they were doing there. As to reporting sightings for the sake of it, yes, I do think they should go into a separate thread, since with up to 21 units scheduled for daily service (soon to be increased) we're likely to be overwhelmed.
It can often be useful to know what unit operated a particular duty on a particular date.

 

[pieguyrob]

Ok. I'm on a job at the moment but when I get chance I will do it.....

 

[pieguyrob]

....... done.

 

[Philip]

The 2234SuX service Manchester Airport to Blackpool North has been diagrammed for a 195 since 12/8/19, and has, since that date, always, or at least almost always, been formed from one.
After stabling overnight at the CMD the unit goes ECS to Lancaster to work 0559SuX Lancaster to Windermere. Sundays it rests at the CMD all day.

That's why I asked about what will happen to this service after the new timetable, as a 195 will still be needed in Blackpool to work to Lancaster the next morning.

Perhaps the 23:47 from Manchester Airport will be a 195 instead?

 

[Bovverboy]

That's why I asked about what will happen to this service after the new timetable, as a 195 will still be needed in Blackpool to work to Lancaster the next morning.

Perhaps the 23:47 from Manchester Airport will be a 195 instead?

195s should be doing Blackpool North - York by then, and it looks like a unit is going to come off the York circuit to do the Lancaster. I say 'looks like', since, as things stand:
1) one more 195 set is scheduled to depart Blackpool North than arrive;
2) there's unnecessary empty running between Blackpool North and Preston.
So things could change, yet. The set imbalance could be explained by a four-car set splitting into two two-car sets, that sort of thing is always difficult to follow through on Realtime Trains.

 

[156420]

195s should be doing Blackpool North - York by then, and it looks like a unit is going to come off the York circuit to do the Lancaster. I say 'looks like', since, as things stand:
1) one more 195 set is scheduled to depart Blackpool North than arrive;
2) there's unnecessary empty running between Blackpool North and Preston.
So things could change, yet. The set imbalance could be explained by a four-car set splitting into two two-car sets, that sort of thing is always difficult to follow through on Realtime Trains.

That’s exactly how the cycle will work the 195 (3 car) off 1B45 2123 York-Blackpool will work the Lancaster the next day, it’ll have to, as there’s only 1 195 stabling at Blackpool and that is the one.

 

[Bovverboy]

That’s exactly how the cycle will work the 195 (3 car) off 1B45 2123 York-Blackpool will work the Lancaster the next day, it’ll have to, as there’s only 1 195 stabling at Blackpool and that is the one.

Are 1B43 2023 York - Blackpool North and 1B14 0519 Blackpool North - York not going to be 195s?

Am I right about 1B39 1822 York - Blackpool North splitting into 1B46 2117 Blackpool North - York and 1B00 2202 Blackpool North - Bradford Interchange?

 

[156420]

Are 1B43 2023 York - Blackpool North and 1B14 0519 Blackpool North - York not going to be 195s?

Am I right about 1B39 1822 York - Blackpool North splitting into 1B46 2117 Blackpool North - York and 1B00 2202 Blackpool North - Bradford Interchange?

Nope 1B43/1B14 still 158’s (for now).

1B39 is still a 158 which forms 1B46.

1B00 is a 195 formed off 5N00 at Preston which is in turn formed off 1P90 1855 ex-Barrow.

I’m just going off the LTP workings, there will definitely be STP workings that week so could change.

 

[Bovverboy]

1B00 is a 195 formed off 5N00 at Preston which is in turn formed off 1P90 1855 ex-Barrow.

5N00 is showing on RTT, but, as is often the case, there isn't platform continuity at Blackpool North, so I'd missed it.

 

[thejuggler]

I agree that some of the notices leave a lot to be desired. I disagree about the doors. Yes, they close unexpectedly on occasion, but whenever I've seen it happen (and that's got to be 20+ times by now) the door closing alarm always sounds, and the red door closing light flashes. On the one occasion it happened to me as I was boarding the train, it was obvious that something was amiss. Yes, it shouldn't happen but, insofar as I have seen, it's only a safety hazard to people who aren't paying attention.

If it shouldn't happen why is it happening? It's a packed commuter, its at the terminus.

Try 'paying attention' when the close alarm goes when there are dozens of other passengers trying to get off a service which arrived late and isn't going anywhere for 15 minutes.

Trains are for everyone. This set up is a danger to less mobile, infirm, parents with children to get off and possibly holding hands to assist each other.

 

[Mathew S]

If it shouldn't happen why is it happening? It's a packed commuter, its at the terminus.

Try 'paying attention' when the close alarm goes when there are dozens of other passengers trying to get off a service which arrived late and isn't going anywhere for 15 minutes.

Trains are for everyone. This set up is a danger to less mobile, infirm, parents with children to get off and possibly holding hands to assist each other.

I don't know why it's happening. Neither, I assume, does anyone else quite understand it since I'm sure, if they did, it wouldn't be happening, would it.

And really, there's a great big flashing red light, and an intensely loud noise. Unless you are both blind and deaf, or under the age of 5, (in both of which cases I would hope you would be travelling accompanied by someone who wasn't either of those things) then I really don't think it's possible not to notice. As for packed commuter trains, the time it happened to me was rush hour at Oxford Road. It wasn't a problem. Everyone stopped, and waited (fairly) patiently while the issue was resolved.

 

[krus_aragon]

Does it really matter what it says on the cab door?

Could be disappointing for anyone seeking free legal advice?

If they did open the door, I suspect the advice they'd get from the driver would be to clear off!

 

[samuelmorris]

Can someone please explain how these units can pass any safety testing when this morning arriving in Leeds on a packed commuter, two people get off, the third is approaching the doors, the door close goes off and he ends being pushed off the train by the closing doors.

After being on another service back from Leeds with three colleagues we are all of the opinion Northern have been ripped off.

The notice by the SOS button also makes no sense whatsoever.

This is still going on? It's not difficult, other stock manages to sense if the doorway is occupied when doors are closing and not being locked.

 

[Grumpy Git]

11.50 MIA-LIV 1F96 comprises a five car 195.107 + 195.002

 

[Bovverboy]

11.50 MIA-LIV 1F96 comprises a five car 195.107 + 195.002

Are you sure about this? According to RTT, the ensemble still fitted into P5 at Oxford Road the previous trip.

Usual story, unit late from Newton Heath, 0551 ex-Airport departed 15 late, semi-fast left Lime Street on the '0805' behind the 0819 stopper. Some honour was recovered by allowing the semi-fast to overtake the stopper before South Parkway, but the former still ran 15+ minutes late throughout.

 

[387star]

Any chance of an add on order to replace 150s? They are not much better thsn a pacer unless suitably refurbished

When are all 153s going?

 

[Bovverboy]

I've finally got round to adding the Calder Valley 195 Monday to Friday diagrams to post #1 of the 'Northern 195 Diagrams' thread, I should have done it weeks ago, really.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-from-15-9-19-with-subsequent-changes.193088/
If you are aware of any errors, please advise. There must be at least one, since I've got one more unit starting at the Leeds end of the route, compared to finishing.
I'll follow with Saturday diagrams.
Q: Are any 195s used on the Calder Valley route on Sundays? I caught sight of three of the four diagrams, Sunday just gone, and none were 195-operated, even though I can't imagine why they wouldn't be.

 

[Chester1]

Any chance of an add on order to replace 150s? They are not much better thsn a pacer unless suitably refurbished

When are all 153s going?

In a word: no. The franchise is losing money and new units are expensive. The only realistic upgrade would be swapping units with better ones owned by the same Rosco. There are enough 158s and 175s becoming available to scrap all Northern 156s, a small number of 150s and the least reliable Northern 158s. Some routes require units that have doors at thirds which makes 150s harder to replace. Getting first refusal on TfWs 769 fleet (if it ever enters service) would allow approximately 18 x 150s to go in the mid 2020s.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Are you sure about this? According to RTT, the ensemble still fitted into P5 at Oxford Road the previous trip.

Usual story, unit late from Newton Heath, 0551 ex-Airport departed 15 late, semi-fast left Lime Street on the '0805' behind the 0819 stopper. Some honour was recovered by allowing the semi-fast to overtake the stopper before South Parkway, but the former still ran 15+ minutes late throughout.

Well I was on it, but I sincerely apologise if I've got this wrong.