Reopenings

[CarterUSM]

With regards dumfries-stranraer, wasn't there a plan to re-open the line as far as maxwelltown? Is know it isn't very far, but I have definately read this somewhere.

 

[LE Greys]

Soham:
Can't believe I missed that. Nobody ever seems to mention it.

 

[me123]

Dunblane-Callander-Creinlarich
It currently takes 4 1/2 hours to get from Perth to Oban and 7 hours from Inverness to Fort William. This could cut two hours from that time.

I wonder about the feasibility of this route. Whilst there probably would be a market for Callander, I'm not sure that a lot of people would want to go through to the West Highland Line in all reality. As nice as it would be, I'd doubt that it's financially viable.

I'd like to see a line North of Aberdeen to Peterhead and Fraserburgh. Neither's a particularly nice place from what I gather, but I'd imagine that there would be a market in connecting these places to the railway network.

I'd also like to see the SAK line improved to take passenger traffic from Glasgow through to Dunfermline, but this one's a bit easier because it's already been reopened and proven to be a success.

Finally, I'd like to see Kirkintilloch reconnected to the rail network. It's a town that deserves a rail link and, whilst I understand that the logistics aren't easy, you'd have a good customer base.

Down South; I can't think of anything that's not already been said (Skipton-Colne & Buxton-Matlock), but I'll admit that my lack of local knowledge in England is probably a factor.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

Matlock-Buxton. The traffic in summer trying to get into Bakewell and the surrounding areas such as Millersdale etc is awful. However i think it was recently surveyed only to be discounted.

In a 'fantasy world' id like to see some Lincolnshire lines re opened. The East lincs and mablethorpe loop. Although im not sure of its viability (except for the mablethorp holiday goers during summer)

Someone who speaks sence

The Matlock - Buxton line would be busy all the year round with all the walkers that would use the train.

The train services in Lincolnshire can only be described at present as a joke , some of the old trackbed has been used for new roads !

 

[northwichcat]

The train services in Lincolnshire can only be described at present as a joke , some of the old trackbed has been used for new roads !

That's what you get from it being a PM from Lincolnshire who thought it would be a good idea for more roads and less railways.

 

[gordonthemoron]

from her accent, you'd never guess that Mrs T came from Lincolnshire

 

[LE Greys]

I'd like to see a line North of Aberdeen to Peterhead and Fraserburgh. Neither's a particularly nice place from what I gather, but I'd imagine that there would be a market in connecting these places to the railway network.

From what I remember, the Buchan Link buses (run by big coaches usually) were always very full. My pet project when I was an Aberdeen student was a revival of the tram system, using the Bodam line to get to Peterhead, along with the Fraserburgh, Oldmeldrum and Ballater lines (or at least bits of them) but running down Union Street rather than into the station and serving the airport terminal. However, the lines would be fully signalled and built for heavy rail use, in case of any freight growth (and to get the Queen to Balmoral).

 

[WatcherZero]

Update on Todmorden reopening progress

http://hhgrahamjones.blogspot.com/2010/05/accrington-to-manchester-direct-rail.html

Originally Posted by Graham Jones MP
Wednesday, 19 May 2010
Accrington to Manchester direct rail link

Todmordon Curve Rail Improvement / Manchester Victoria east link to Blackburn via Burnley and Accrington.

This is a scheme I have been supporting both formerly as Labour Leader in Hyndburn and as a Lancashire County Councillor at Preston. Lancashire County Council is the Passenger Transport Authority for this area dealing with public transport and Network Rail the rail management organisation.

New franchise routes will not be taken on by Government for the first three years. Local sponsors, private investors and local councils will have to underwrite any losses.

The Todmorden Curve is a bend of some 150 yards that allows the trtains to York to turn right and head into Manchester. Old track bed remains untouched and undeveloped.

Where we are up to:


Network Rail has had some difficulty in timetabling the proposed service via the Todmorden Curve due to various clashes with other services, including freight services, on the two routes. However, a workable "slot" in each direction has been found.

The original intention was to terminate the service from Manchester at Accrington and provide a facility to turn the train round there. However, the only timetable slots available for the service also leave sufficient time for the train to run into Blackburn and back before it is able to return to Manchester. In my view, it may as well do this as it would otherwise just sit in Accrington. It also saves the capital cost of providing the turn back facility at Accrington (perhaps £300k -£400k).


Whilst I can see the reasoning behind what is being suggested i.e. running the train onto Preston, this would require an extra diesel unit and two crews to be provided. The cost of this would be substantial; my guess is between £650,000 and £750,000 per annum for a twin car train.

We will also know whether there will be a revenue deficit and the extent of it. This is crucial as present Government policy requires the promoters of new rail services to fund such deficits for three years before the Government will consider taking on the revenue funding.

Even then the benefit to cost ratio for the new service will have to exceed 1.5. This will be an important consideration for both Burnley Council, Hyndburn Council (though their interest is limited) and the County Council in determining whether to proceed.

Firstly on the engineering side: Network Rail is close to completing the study they have been asked to do. This is confirming that the cost will be in the order of £7 to £9 million at today's prices. The reason for this range of cost is that there is still some uncertainty about the degree of stabilisation work that might need to be undertaken on the former alignment.

Secondly: There will need to be further work on the demand forecasting side. This will allow more accurate prediction of passenger numbers and revenue than we presently have. It will also allow the wider benefits of the service to be calculated. We are currently exploring with colleagues at Burnley Borough Council the best way to proceed and expect to commission this piece of work soon.

Thirdly: Network Rail has completed a timetable study. This has shown that with the present timetables on the East Lancashire and Calder Valley Lines, it would only be possible to provide an hourly service in each direction. The service would start/finish at Blackburn and call at Accrington and Burnley, Manchester Road. All other timetable options, unfortunately, cause irresolvable clashes with other passenger or freight services.

You may be aware, that Network Rail has recently published its "Manchester Hub" proposals. If these proposals are eventually adopted for implementation post 2014, then capacity may well be freed up for additional services via the Todmorden Curve.

Fourthly: Northern Rail will now be costing the available timetable option. Together with the demand and revenue forecasting exercise and the wider benefits, this will allow a full business case to be presented to Government and other potential Capital funders in due course.

Fifthly: A final issue to be resolved, assuming everything else "stacks up" is the rolling stock position. At the present time Northern have no spare trains to run additional services. We will need to be in a position to present a robust case for the rolling stock for this new service to be included in future rolling stock plans.

Under the current rules, local authorities sponsoring rail enhancement schemes are required not only to identify the source of any capital costs from regional or local budgets, but also to meet any operating deficit for the first three years of operation. Only after that period would the Government consider providing revenue support and even then only if the service has a proven benefit to cost ratio that is better than 1.5.

The extra revenue generated through extending to Preston would fall well short of the extra cost of running the service through, given that there are already two trains per hour each way on the corridor. The additional subsidy burden falling on the sponsoring authorities may well make the entire Todmorden Curve scheme unaffordable, given the downward pressure on local authority budgets.

There is logic in running through to Preston and the extra opportunities this would provide. I would suggest that this is viewed as a longer term objective and, should the Todmorden Curve project as it stands be implemented, it is given further consideration as part of any post-implementation review.

Blackburn to Manchester hi-speed link (formally Colne to Manchester via Blackburn) / West/South

This is actively being taken forward with Blackburn with Darwen Council as lead authority. I am sure there will also be interest in making this franchise run to Clitheroe as opposed to elsewhere.

The scheme looks promising as the capital cost is relatively modest at around £9 million to £10 million, as with the Todmorden Curve (circa £7 million to £8 million).

Serious consideration was given some while ago to the suggestion of a Colne, Burnley, Accrington, Blackburn, Bolton, Manchester service. Unfortunately, the route is rather circuitous and journey times do not compare favourably with other modes. Certainly the journey time between Burnley and Manchester via Blackburn and Bolton, at around 70 minutes, is well above the local aspiration of around 40 minutes station to station and the presently achievable 48 minutes station to station via the Todmorden Curve.

It is my hope that Hyndburn Council takes a more active role, rather than passive role currently, and actively engages in encouraging investment in rail to the benefit of this area.

 

[Kernowfem]

Someone who speaks sence

The Matlock - Buxton line would be busy all the year round with all the walkers that would use the train.

The train services in Lincolnshire can only be described at present as a joke , some of the old trackbed has been used for new roads !

I do think the Matlock to Buxton line would be busy all year round, and quite profitable to boot, the traffic at the moment just causes chaos. I have heard rumours of a residents group being started to up to try and get the line re opened...however what would become of Peak rail??

Oh and agreed on the lincolnshire services..they are rubbish!

 

[Bish Boy]

Leamside line definate washington really needs a station should be reason enough.Also Bishop Auckland to Crook 11000 people potentialy served for only a few miles of tack where most of the trackbed is still accessible some is even in use for the weardale railway. would really cut traffic levels in Bishop Auckland.

 

[IanXC]

Theres been lots of talk about Beverley to York via Market Weighton, Pocklington and Stamford Bridge.

This one has a campaign group too, the Minsters Rail Campaign, but its been all quiet since the council protected the route in the local development plan in 2006.

The argument goes that the railway was unfairly closed and that East Yorkshire's roads, particularly the A1079, are struggling to cope with increasing traffic to and from Hull. A report by the Carl Bro Group for East Riding of Yorkshire Council in 2004 concluded that the project was feasible, but would cost around £239 million to build.

 

[Bittern]

The Bothwell Branch.

Bothwell's a growing community, and the roads there can get pretty damn busy. A railway link to Hamilton and Glasgow would do it wonders.

 

[CarterUSM]

The Bothwell Branch.

Bothwell's a growing community, and the roads there can get pretty damn busy. A railway link to #hamilton and Glasgow would do it wonders.

Not a bad idea that. Physically, it cannot be more than a mile or three from the nearest line.

 

[Bittern]

Not a bad idea that. Physically, it cannot be more than a mile or three from the nearest line.

It's surrounded by railways!

I wouldn't mind seeing the line reopen as far as Burnabnk, actually. The nearest station is Hamilton West, which is a good 10 minute walk up a hill which is terrible for the elderly (which there are many of in the area). The buses are terrible and the roads congested. Again, a railway would do wonders.

 

[Old Timer]

That's what you get from it being a PM from Lincolnshire who thought it would be a good idea for more roads and less railways.

So how do you explain the enormous amount of investment in Railways during her term of Office ?

 

[LE Greys]

So how do you explain the enormous amount of investment in Railways during her term of Office ?

The Age of Miracles has not quite passed.

 

[imagination]

Penrith - Keswick

Very scenic route connecting a very busy tourist town with the rail network.
Although I think the campaign group's vision a tad optimistic (see http://www.keswickrailway.com/id15.html) and I personally can't see anything more than the occasional excursion from further afield than Manchester, the line WOULD probably be profitable all year round, with huge numbers of users in the summer.

 

[trickyvegas]

That wouldn't be in my top hundred - despite you claiming it links the "ECML/ WCML and the city regions of Liverpool/ Manchester/ Leeds/ Hull" the Skipton Colne line doesn't serve anywhere of any size

I think providing areas like Burnley & Nelson which suffer from high levels of poverty and unemployment access to the Airedale line (and thus further job opportunities) would massively improve the lot of the locals, and of the econmoy as whole.

 

[sprinterguy]

A number of these suggestions have been put forward already, but I'm going to reiterate them anyway as I feel them to be that important:

1. Matlock-Buxton
2. Penrith-Keswick
3. Stoke-Leek
4. Dunblane-Callander
5. Leicester-Burton via Swadlincote and Ashby-de-la-Zouch.
6. Pelaw to Washington “Leamside” line
7. Blyth and Tyne to Ashington.

The loss of the Matlock-Buxton link has really severed the connection between North and South Derbyshire, which means that the main centres of attraction for those living in the north of the county are now either Sheffield or Manchester: Neither of which are in the same county! It also means that connections between Manchester and Nottingham (but mostly places in the Peak District inbetween) are pretty poor.

My missus comes from Chapel-en-le-Frith (North Derbyshire), but for one reason or another has generally ended up securing jobs in Derby in the past, which has meant that she has had to own a car from as soon as she passed her test whether she liked it or not! The Buxton-Derby and Nottingham “Transpeak” bus is not really a viable option, as it winds around each small village on the way in order to try to scrape up some revenue, and gets stuck in all the same traffic congestion on the Derbyshire roads as the cars!
A Transpeak rail line between Derby and Buxton would connect the main residential and tourist centres and take less time than driving, so I’m sure patronage would be good: I have seen for myself the horrendous road congestion that occurs on any sunny weekend around Bakewell and Buxton as the tourists charge into Derbyshire, so have no doubts about the usefulness of a potential rail link.

Penrith to Keswick is a similar story: It would help to remove cars from the roads in this popular tourist area.

And here’s a thought: I think that on weekends between certain times of year, say Easter to September, road users entering National Park areas for leisure purposes should be charged (Residents and local businesses would receive exemption permits): With the relevant rail links in place, this could do a lot to get people off the roads and onto the trains.

I would reopen the Leicester to Burton line as a local service run by EMT (153s or 156s), continuing onwards to Derby. This would provide a useful local service to Derby from Burton, perhaps via a couple of reopened stations enroute. This local service would complement the possible Tamworth-Coleshill-Birmingham service at the south end of the Birmingham-Derby line, that is an idea that is being batted about at the suggestion stage at the moment (Probably never happen).

 

[Drsatan]

It would almost certainly come back as a light rail system, although extending the existing Island Line to Ventnor wouldnt be a bad idea. The problem is the huge cost of reinstatement, likewise with reinstating Cowes-Newport-Ryde - that also would do well considering how bad traffic has become even in winter and the growing sucess of the bus service along there.

I think reopening Shanklin-Ventnor would be a fantastic idea. Ventnor's suffered following the loss of its railway and so reopening the line would make it more accessible.

The trackbed from Shanklin to Ventnor is largely in situ (although it would be necessary to rebuild an overbridge immediately west of Shanklin station) and Wroxall tunnel is still usable, although it's now occupied by a water main. In steam days Ventnor station, being situated at the top of a hill, was very badly sited, and so any tramway would need to be routed into the town centre somehow.

At the same time, a new Ventnor - Ryde tramway could be routed through Ryde town centre to attract more passengers.

Reopening Newport - Cowes as a tramway would be possible since the trackbed's still in use as a cycle path; reopening the line as a tramway would eliminate the need to build a station in Newport and Cowes town centres.

I'd also investigate the possibility of building a loop through Sandown and Shanklin town centres to make them more accessible to rail passengers.

Nonetheless, I'd love to see the rebuilding of part of the Island's rail network as a light rail system. It would be far more sustainable than turning Ryde - Shanklin into a guided busway or even closing the line when obtaining spare parts for the 1938 built units becomes impossible.

 

[Urbanplanner24]

Ashington / Blyth to Newcastle. Passenger Services... Please?

Today, whilst sitting for over an hour in stop-start traffic heading north to Ashington from my job in Newcastle, I couldn’t help but get myself into a rage. Lets be honest, there is a perfectly good rail line between the biggest urban areas in Northumberland (Morpeth, Blyth and Ashington) with well maintained track and the majority is only used for freight! It’s crazy. Extending the existing Newcastle - Morpeth Northern train service to Bedlington and on to Ashington and Blyth would be relatively simple in my opinion and have extremely significant benefits to A19 and A1 commuters.

It’s not like a rail line like this would require a lot of substantial engineering work. Particularly when you look at the current construction of Manchester’s trams and Crossrail in London (like they need another rail line) which are huge tasks, operating a Northumberland rail line would be miniscule in comparison but have enormous benefits. I am sure if this passenger transport gap was identified in the South East of England, it would have been filled decades ago but yet again the North East suffers from under funding and investment.

I, along with the majority of commuters from South East Northumberland, am at the point of settling for a smaller plan. There has been local talk for years about the feasibility of a Park & Ride railway station around the Northumberland Business Park on the A19, and near the A1 junction, south of Cramlington. In reality, this is an inexpensive plan in the grand scheme of things which solves a great deal of people’s road congestion misery. At least this way, I could park-up and avoid the main congested roads into the Newcastle by taking a speedy 10 minute train journey to the city instead of the daily slow crawl.

Enough is enough. In 2010, it really is time for an Ashington / Blyth passenger rail service.

 

[142094]

Well said, I was fortunate to travel on SENRUGs Ashington Future a couple of years back, and at the time it was clear how passenger trains could be returned easily, the only big investment needed being the stations. The amount of people (and buses) that arrive at Newcastle Haymarket from Blyth and Ashington each day shows there is a big market for it. It takes just about 60 mins to get to Blyth by bus, and could be done in just over half of that by train.

 

[mindfeeder]

Depends if it's that "obvious" but Kenilworth being reopened would be excellent. Hopefully London Midland or Chiltern could look at a Leamington to Coventry shuttle which is what the line needs.

 

[Geezertronic]

Depends if it's that "obvious" but Kenilworth being reopened would be excellent. Hopefully London Midland or Chiltern could look at a Leamington to Coventry shuttle which is what the line needs.

Couldn't LM extend the Nuneaton-Coventry service making it a Nuneaton-Leamington via Conventry service (paths permitting)?

 

[sprinterguy]

Couldn't LM extend the Nuneaton-Coventry service making it a Nuneaton-Leamington via Conventry service (paths permitting)?

That is the eventual aspiration, as well as the doubling of the frequency, under the NUCKLE scheme, subject to funding. That would make the most sense, to give the Nun-Cov shuttle a bit more of a purpose in life by extending it to Leamington. I agree that a reopened Kenilworth station would be a good move.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

That is the eventual aspiration, as well as the doubling of the frequency, under the NUCKLE scheme, subject to funding. That would make the most sense, to give the Nun-Cov shuttle a bit more of a purpose in life by extending it to Leamington. I agree that a reopened Kenilworth station would be a good move.

Don't they also want 2 new stations on the Nun-Cov line at Bermuda and the Ricoh Arena - bit of a while off though

 

[sprinterguy]

Don't they also want 2 new stations on the Nun-Cov line at Bermuda and the Ricoh Arena - bit of a while off though

Yeah that's right, couldn't remember the locations of where the stations were planned to be put, cheers for jogging my memory! I'm not holding my breath for any quick action.

 

[tbtc]

I think providing areas like Burnley & Nelson which suffer from high levels of poverty and unemployment access to the Airedale line (and thus further job opportunities) would massively improve the lot of the locals, and of the econmoy as whole.

Burnley already has an hourly train to Bradford and Leeds

If I lived in Burnley I'd be more bothered about a direct train to Manchester (instead of changing at Blackburn) than worrying about the employment market in Skipton/ Keighley

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Burnley already has an hourly train to Bradford and Leeds

If I lived in Burnley I'd be more bothered about a direct train to Manchester (instead of changing at Blackburn) than worrying about the employment market in Skipton/ Keighley

believe me, SELRAP is better, it will connect not just Burnley and Nelson with Skipton tec, but Preston, Blackburn and Accrington too. It offers far faster links to Bradford and Leeds, as well as joining them to Skipton, Bingley, Keighley and Shipley. Lots of people in Burnley and Colne just go to Hebden Bridge or Clitheroe already

 

[tbtc]

Couldn't LM extend the Nuneaton-Coventry service making it a Nuneaton-Leamington via Conventry service (paths permitting)?

I guess the trouble there is that you'd need to cross all lines at Cov, which might be a bit of a squeeze, unlike the current self contained shuttle to Nuneaton
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

believe me, SELRAP is better, it will connect not just Burnley and Nelson with Skipton tec, but Preston, Blackburn and Accrington too. It offers far faster links to Bradford and Leeds, as well as joining them to Skipton, Bingley, Keighley and Shipley. Lots of people in Burnley and Colne just go to Hebden Bridge or Clitheroe already

Preston/ Blackburn/ Accrington/ Burnley/ Bradford/ Leeds is already a well established route. You'd be wanting to spend a lot of money on relatively marginal trips like Nelson - Keighley or Colne - Skipton. I can't see that being a good business case, when there are lines like Ashington/ Matlock/ Washington on the table

As a rule of thumb, compare the bus service from Ashington/ Blyth (etc) into Newcastle to the hourly Keighley - Burnley bus service. If there was a massive market for travel between Keighley and Burnley, you'd think a bus operater would be making more of it...

As I've said before, if you are convinced that there is a market for a direct train from Blackburn area to Skipton then the logical way is to extend the Clitheroe services (reversing at Hellifield), to at least test the water