Coronavirus.

[nlogax]

Personal observations commuting across London both ways today..managed to get seats on every tube and train I've taken in and out of Waterloo and KX during both peaks. Things seem marginally less busy than normal. A few more facemasks in view on the tube than usual.

Daft question..is it half term anywhere around London this week. That may partially explain things.

 

[yorksrob]

My commuter train to/from Leeds seems busier than normal !

 

[westv]

Yet another disease to try and avoid on the tube.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In fairness, I don't think this is necessarily one that has been dreamed up by the Government in response to Coronavirus - I have heard similar "advice" from elsewhere before.

Because most people don't actually have a concept of what 20 seconds is. It's a bit like the thing about doing CPR to "Staying Alive", as people don't really have a concept of pushing every 2 seconds (or whatever it is).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Personal observations commuting across London both ways today..managed to get seats on every tube and train I've taken in and out of Waterloo and KX during both peaks. Things seem marginally less busy than normal. A few more facemasks in view on the tube than usual.

Daft question..is it half term anywhere around London this week. That may partially explain things.

I've noticed almost everyone Chinese (or similarly Eastern) I've seen in the past few days has had a mask on. I've not seen anyone European-looking with one apart from the muppetry wearing silly things like gas masks.

 

[Crossover]

Because most people don't actually have a concept of what 20 seconds is. It's a bit like the thing about doing CPR to "Staying Alive", as people don't really have a concept of pushing every 2 seconds (or whatever it is).

Agreed. Not heard of the CPR to "Staying Alive" one before, I must say

 

[alex397]

Well my tour of Germany in April, which has taken me months of planning, is looking a little less likely..... Of course, there are more important things to be concerned about, but I will be deeply disappointed if I have to cancel.

So far, there doesn't seem to be a sign of Eurostar or DB cancelling trains, but it could all change quickly.

 

[Jozhua]

It seems like the government is being really slow to respond. Why should we wait for an outbreak to occur before reacting? If we are sensible, we should be proactive in screening those coming from affected regions at airports, setting up dedicated transfer services back to their homes and suggesting them to self-isolate at home until test results come back. Perhaps having separate customs/baggage claim areas set up in Tents, with an extra stop to submit whatever biological samples are needed for the test.

I think being proactive and keeping on top of it coming into the country is the only way we can stop the outbreak from spreading. It seems like the government is instead eager to play a coronavirus cat and mouse game.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...news/no-screening-no-questions-asked-17820269
A couple just travelled back from the affected areas and didn't even get asked questions or given advice, just let straight in. Seems a bit dumb to me, especially considering the people on the flight would have been in contact with many others in the customs/immigration, baggage claim and ground transportation areas.

I don't want to come across isolationist or overly fearful, obviously we want to keep international trade, business and tourism, but some sensible precautions at our ports of entry could help nip the spread in the bud and reduce our chances of having to quarantine areas. And the insanity of having people who are potentially infected stood in a massive que with a load of people not from affected areas just seems ridiculous.

 

[Bantamzen]

It seems like the government is being really slow to respond. Why should we wait for an outbreak to occur before reacting? If we are sensible, we should be proactive in screening those coming from affected regions at airports, setting up dedicated transfer services back to their homes and suggesting them to self-isolate at home until test results come back. Perhaps having separate customs/baggage claim areas set up in Tents, with an extra stop to submit whatever biological samples are needed for the test.

I think being proactive and keeping on top of it coming into the country is the only way we can stop the outbreak from spreading. It seems like the government is instead eager to play a coronavirus cat and mouse game.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...news/no-screening-no-questions-asked-17820269
A couple just travelled back from the affected areas and didn't even get asked questions or given advice, just let straight in. Seems a bit dumb to me, especially considering the people on the flight would have been in contact with many others in the customs/immigration, baggage claim and ground transportation areas.

I don't want to come across isolationist or overly fearful, obviously we want to keep international trade, business and tourism, but some sensible precautions at our ports of entry could help nip the spread in the bud and reduce our chances of having to quarantine areas. And the insanity of having people who are potentially infected stood in a massive que with a load of people not from affected areas just seems ridiculous.

Well in a lot of affected areas, screening is already is place before passengers leave. Given that the incubation period could be as long as 14 days, re-screening all passengers on return is unlikely to discover many more cases. But more importantly the screening processes themselves are far from 100% effective, the current tests being used for most are at best 70% effective, and even then are likely only to be more effective where the virus is active in the person.

The reality though is that the potential exposure rate even in this country is likely to be in the hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions by now. So slamming the borders shut would be shutting the stable door after the horses had bolted. At this stage careful management of the spread is the most effective way to deal with it. Most people exposed to the virus (80% I believe I've read) will not experience anything more than a bad cold, and of those whose symptoms are more flu-like most are not in any real danger. So if people keep to a good standard of hygiene when out & about, and follow NHS advice if they develop symptoms and just stay at home & ring 111, the spread can be largely self-contained without the risk of major disruption.

 

[DarloRich]

It seems like the government is being really slow to respond. Why should we wait for an outbreak to occur before reacting? If we are sensible, we should be proactive in screening those coming from affected regions at airports, setting up dedicated transfer services back to their homes and suggesting them to self-isolate at home until test results come back. Perhaps having separate customs/baggage claim areas set up in Tents, with an extra stop to submit whatever biological samples are needed for the test.

I think being proactive and keeping on top of it coming into the country is the only way we can stop the outbreak from spreading. It seems like the government is instead eager to play a coronavirus cat and mouse game.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...news/no-screening-no-questions-asked-17820269
A couple just travelled back from the affected areas and didn't even get asked questions or given advice, just let straight in. Seems a bit dumb to me, especially considering the people on the flight would have been in contact with many others in the customs/immigration, baggage claim and ground transportation areas.

I don't want to come across isolationist or overly fearful, obviously we want to keep international trade, business and tourism, but some sensible precautions at our ports of entry could help nip the spread in the bud and reduce our chances of having to quarantine areas. And the insanity of having people who are potentially infected stood in a massive que with a load of people not from affected areas just seems ridiculous.

None of us have much experience of epidemiology or virology so perhaps we should just follow the advice given by PHE who ARE experts.

 

[TheEdge]

I'm genuinely confused as to why everyone is so terrified of this disease.

Wading through the hyperbole that the press is spouting this seems to be not as bad as SARS (at least mortality wise) seemed to be. And seemingly unless you are old or immunosuppressed in some way chances are the worst you'll get is a bad cold or flu like symptoms, kind of like the common or garden cold or flu. Or am I missing some really basic issue?

 

[Howardh]

None of us have much experience of epidemiology or virology so perhaps we should just follow the advice given by PHE who ARE experts.

Voters who voted for Brexit don't take any notice of experts - what makes you think they'll start now??!

I'm due out to Holland next week (flying) and I'm half-expecting the flight out to be cancelled if we have travel restrictions, what worries me most is getting there and then being unable to return if the hotel/town/country is in lockdown.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm genuinely confused as to why everyone is so terrified of this disease.

Wading through the hyperbole that the press is spouting this seems to be not as bad as SARS (at least mortality wise) seemed to be. And seemingly unless you are old or immunosuppressed in some way chances are the worst you'll get is a bad cold or flu like symptoms, kind of like the common or garden cold or flu. Or am I missing some really basic issue?

It is more deadly than the winter flu, but not that much more. I think the reason to want to contain or slow it is that if everyone gets it at once the economic damage will be massive. If there was an opportunity to eradicate the winter flu I'm sure it'd be taken.

 

[Howardh]

I'm genuinely confused as to why everyone is so terrified of this disease.

Wading through the hyperbole that the press is spouting this seems to be not as bad as SARS (at least mortality wise) seemed to be. And seemingly unless you are old or immunosuppressed in some way chances are the worst you'll get is a bad cold or flu like symptoms, kind of like the common or garden cold or flu. Or am I missing some really basic issue?

If my mum were still alive at 89 (I cared for her until death) I'd be very, very worried as she would be at extremely high-risk (especially with several carers coming in daily). As it happened pneumonia killed her after she caught a bug last month but one and the lungs packed in. So, yes, I would have been "terrified".

 

[DarloRich]

I'm genuinely confused as to why everyone is so terrified of this disease.

Wading through the hyperbole that the press is spouting this seems to be not as bad as SARS (at least mortality wise) seemed to be. And seemingly unless you are old or immunosuppressed in some way chances are the worst you'll get is a bad cold or flu like symptoms, kind of like the common or garden cold or flu. Or am I missing some really basic issue?

I don't think it is that people are terrified. I think the government, as @Bletchleyite says, is worried about the economic and cultural impact of having to try and contain the spread of the virus and reducing the impact on the health service as much as possible.

It is clearly virulent, easily transmissible and a higher than normal risk to certain groups of people. The issue to be really worried about is any further mutation of the virus as seems to have happened with the so called Spanish flu where a second wave was much more deadly than the first.

I am not concerned we will all die. I am concerned we will get ill in larger than normal numbers and that this will have an impact on business and personal life.

 

[bramling]

I'm genuinely confused as to why everyone is so terrified of this disease.

Wading through the hyperbole that the press is spouting this seems to be not as bad as SARS (at least mortality wise) seemed to be. And seemingly unless you are old or immunosuppressed in some way chances are the worst you'll get is a bad cold or flu like symptoms, kind of like the common or garden cold or flu. Or am I missing some really basic issue?

Presumably those people who are members of the vulnerable groups have reason to be concerned (I wouldn't quite go as far as terrified!).

 

[TheEdge]

Presumably those people who are members of the vulnerable groups have reason to be concerned (I wouldn't quite go as far as terrified!).

Well obviously those groups will be more worried but then those groups are also more worried about seasonal flu or a bad cold.

Well lets just hope it doesn't start mutating and we continue to be worried more about the social and economic impacts that the deaths.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am not concerned we will all die. I am concerned we will get ill in larger than normal numbers and that this will have an impact on business and personal life.

I'm slightly concerned about my parents (in their 70s but otherwise healthy), but being retired they can just sit at home for a month watching TV and have family drop food off for them, so if they want to sit it out they can, and I suspect probably will.

I am not in the remotest bit concerned about the chance of it killing me (40 year old in reasonable health apart from successfully-controlled, very mild asthma). I'm more likely to get run over crossing the road.

 

[Jozhua]

I'm genuinely confused as to why everyone is so terrified of this disease.

Wading through the hyperbole that the press is spouting this seems to be not as bad as SARS (at least mortality wise) seemed to be. And seemingly unless you are old or immunosuppressed in some way chances are the worst you'll get is a bad cold or flu like symptoms, kind of like the common or garden cold or flu. Or am I missing some really basic issue?

The longer it spends in people, the higher the chance of it mutating and becoming deadlier.

It is perhaps not much more deadly than seasonal flu, but it IS more deadly than seasonal flu, and given the opportunity to mutate, it could quite possibly become much more deadly.

Well obviously those groups will be more worried but then those groups are also more worried about seasonal flu or a bad cold.

Well lets just hope it doesn't start mutating and we continue to be worried more about the social and economic impacts that the deaths.

Yes, it's yet another virus for those with immune issues and older folks to have to worry about. The seasonal flu claims enough lives, this could stand to make it worse.

 

[Howardh]

I'm slightly concerned about my parents (in their 70s but otherwise healthy), but being retired they can just sit at home for a month watching TV and have family drop food off for them, so if they want to sit it out they can, and I suspect probably will.

I am not in the remotest bit concerned about the chance of it killing me (40 year old in reasonable health apart from successfully-controlled, very mild asthma). I'm more likely to get run over crossing the road.

...delivering the food for your parents....

 

[The_Train]

What are people doing with regards to travel when it comes to this hobby? Just getting on with things or considering whether being on a busy train could be risky?

I ask as I was looking into a trip to Cardiff either later this week or next week but I'm now starting to wonder whether I should be making trips of this nature whilst this is around. I was certainly wary whilst out on Merseyrail last week - kept well away from people with suitcases

 

[xydancer]

Governments should clearly plan, and it's good they are. But sitting here typing this in Taiwan, rather close to where it all started, I am again struck by the incredible difference in tone between the UK politicians and press and those here. And don't think for a moment that all is incredibly state controlled here. It's not. Democracy here is very open and the newspapers are quite willing to let rip - and do.

Yes, it's a worry and yes people are concerned but there are no frightening headlines. Looking at it from here, there seems to be a lot of plucking numbers out of the air going on. There's none of the "up to a fifth of people may be off work" as I have just read on the BBC website. Certainly none of the 'setting up a mass mortuary' in Taipei's equivalent of Hyde Park, as there was in one UK newspaper I looked at recently.

People here tend to be calm by nature. Perhaps that's the reason for the massive difference. I also see the on-line press from Hong Kong, but is there anyone on here who can fill us in on how it's all being reported elsewhere in the world?

One thing the government here have done is introduce stiff penalties for breaking formal or home quarantine.

A Taiwan public transport update: Everything is running as normal. Indeed, life is going on more or less as normal. There is now an automatic temperature taking station on the busiest entrance to the main MRT interchange station,although it's actually remarkably innocuous. Temperatures are also being taken on all flight arrivals, and anyone coming in has to complete a new on-line health declaration - developed and rolled out in just seven days. Mask wearing on trains is the norm, although around 5% of people do not - from my observations on an out of town trip yesterday, it's more like 20% on less crowded services. There's no problems if you don't wear one. No disparaging looks, no comments, and people are quite happy to still sit next to you. Regional train loadings looked pretty normal. On the street, mask wearing may even have dipped a little - it's probably around two-thirds with masks in the city, one-third out where I am.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What are people doing with regards to travel when it comes to this hobby? Just getting on with things or considering whether being on a busy train could be risky?

The former, though if I was immune-suppressed or otherwise highly vulnerable I might think differently.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A Taiwan public transport update: Everything is running as normal. There is now an automatic temperature taking station on the busiest entrance to the main MRT interchange station,although it's actually remarkably innocuous. Temperatures are also being taken on all flight arrivals, and anyone coming in has to complete a new on-line health declaration - developed and rolled out in just seven days. Mask wearing on trains is the norm, although around 5% of people do not - from my observations on an out of town trip yesterday, it's more like 20% on less crowded services. There's no problems if you don't wear one. No disparaging looks, no comments, and people are quite happy to still sit next to you. Regional train loadings looked pretty normal. On the street, it's remained at probably around two-thirds with masks in the city, one-third out where I am.

It's worth bearing in mind that the mask thing is an Asian cultural thing. The only people I've seen wearing masks out and about so far are Asian people. Normally they wear them when they themselves have a cold to avoid spreading it.

 

[nlogax]

What are people doing with regards to travel when it comes to this hobby? Just getting on with things or considering whether being on a busy train could be risky?

Getting on with it. I have to use trains to get to certain work locations and that'll continue until / unless those locations decide to close their offices. And I'll keep using trains for leisure travel too.

 

[DarloRich]

What are people doing with regards to travel when it comes to this hobby? Just getting on with things or considering whether being on a busy train could be risky?

I will follow the advice given by the government. You should to.

Getting on with it. I have to use trains to get to certain work locations and that'll continue until / unless those locations decide to close their offices. And I'll keep using trains for leisure travel too.

Work from home. Follow government advice.

PS you both might find the choice taken away from you.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Work from home. Follow government advice.

That is not yet advice:

If the disease becomes established in the UK, further measures to be considered include school closures, home working and reducing large-scale gatherings

People should follow the Government advice that applies now. Unless immunosuppressed or with a serious respiratory condition, there is no need to hide away from it now, and mass panic of people doing so will exascerbate economic damage.

 

[Bantamzen]

What are people doing with regards to travel when it comes to this hobby? Just getting on with things or considering whether being on a busy train could be risky?

I ask as I was looking into a trip to Cardiff either later this week or next week but I'm now starting to wonder whether I should be making trips of this nature whilst this is around. I was certainly wary whilst out on Merseyrail last week - kept well away from people with suitcases

I'm still making my regular trips to my hub office on busy trains & into a very busy office. Here in Yorkshire the alert status has been updated from "It'll be reet" to "It'll be reet after a pint or two", but otherwise the panic buying and crippling paranoia of that guy opposite coughing hasn't yet kicked in. I've yet to see a face mask.

But you could use this heightened state of awareness to your advantage if your train is full, just strike up a conversation on how Wuhan was lovely if a bit quiet, cough a little (into a tissue of course), then take your pick of the emptied seats....

(Joking of course, maybe.....)

 

[DarloRich]

That is not yet advice:

If the disease becomes established in the UK, further measures to be considered include school closures, home working and reducing large-scale gatherings

absolutely. It is perfectly fine now. That may change quite quickly.

 

[xydancer]

It's worth bearing in mind that the mask thing is an Asian cultural thing. The only people I've seen wearing masks out and about so far are Asian people. Normally they wear them when they themselves have a cold to avoid spreading it.

I've been in and out of Taiwan for 15 years and you are quite correct. But wearing them the way people are now is not the norm. SARS is the other other occasion I've seen it like this. When they are worn in normal circumstances, it is to stop others catching whatever cold or cough you have; not to stop you catching something from other people. That is different.