Train derailment (1Y27 18:20 GLQ - OBN)

[Bittern]

You can see what appears to be a small fire under the train here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KZZarwwXbA

 

[ChrisCooper]

Seems a very small fire. Diesel is very hard to ignite anyway. What has probably happened is that diesel has leaked onto a hot part of the engine or exhaust and vaporised, then something else has caused it to ignite, perhaps a spark from damaged wiring.

 

[90019]

Ah, I've worked out who you are. You are a well-known enthusiast from the Glasgow area who likes HSTs and 156s (499 being your favourite as you say) and 'tones'. Are you banned from this forum? I seem to recall you are...

I did wonder when I saw the username and a couple of his posts.


I'm going to be interested to see what they do to get the train out of there, as it seems to be in a rather awkward position.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

To me, that "small fire" in the YT clip ( at around 8 secs ) looks more like a bloke in a high vis jacket moving across? Can't see any smoke, although of course with all that vegetation that would be difficult anyway.

 

[455driver]

Exactly what I was thinking, you are actually looking under the body to the other side and it is somebody in a white shirt and hi-vi on.
As stated the "fire" could have been the fuel tank or pipe splitting or even the radiator leaking steam (looking like smoke) as it got punctured.

 

[First ScotRail]

It is someone in a hi-vis jacket. The fire clearly didn't take hold as the livery is still in tact with no damage from what I can see. One of the windows are smashed on the Unit however with customers trying to escape.

 

[matchmaker]

I wonder why Anderson's Piano failed to detect the boulders, although I have heard that there have been incidents where boulders bounced straight over the top of the screen.

 

[maddeningcrowds]

What is Anderson's Piano ?

 

[Going South]

What is Anderson's Piano ?

I assume it is this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pass_of_Brander_stone_signals

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Can we be sure that the rockfall did not actually happen just as the train was coming past, though?

In such an instance, no level of warning systems would have made any difference.

 

[matchmaker]

I assume it is this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pass_of_Brander_stone_signals

Yes, that's it. My avatar shows two of the signals.

 

[jimrbrobinson]

Just reading an article in The Independent online where the driver states he saw large boulders on the line too late to brake / stop. According to that article the crew have all received praise for the calmness and professionalism in assisting passengers safely off the train. Also praised (though not by name) are a number of passengers who calmly assisted the staff to help fellow passengers. Well done to all concerned in my book - it could so easily have been a lot worse.

 

[Bittern]

LOL It is a high-vis jacket in the video! My bad. I was distracted all morning by my bad hay fever! lol

 

[Turbostar]

Well, judging by the report on Reporting Scotland at 6.30pm, it looks like the warning system 'Anderson's Piano' that's in place, wasn't working properly, if at all, & failed to report the possible landslide, so it looks more than likely that it was a landslide that caused the derailment. Quite rightly so, can't remember his name though, the driver has been highly praised & commended for his swift action in preventing what could have been a much worse accident, & for his swift action in helping getting the passengers off the train & to safety.

 

[neonison]

Well, judging by the report on Reporting Scotland at 6.30pm, it looks like the warning system 'Anderson's Piano' that's in place, wasn't working properly, if at all,

It will be interesting to see if it figures in the RAIB report.

 

[Turbostar]

It will be interesting to see if it figures in the RAIB report.

Indeed. Main thing is, there was no serious injuries. Now just the problem of how to recover the car hanging over...

 

[GB]

Indeed. Main thing is, there was no serious injuries. Now just the problem of how to recover the car hanging over...

Expect it to be there for some time yet! Recovery by rail has been ruled out and the access road is on pillars that will not support a road crane without some serious modifications.

Reports since the accident suggests that the overhanging coach has moved by as much as 25m!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The BBC news at 18.00 last night ( should be on iPlayer??? It was in the last few minutes of the broadcast ) stated that the road will be widened temporarily so that a road crane can be brought in to effect the recovery.

Meanwhile, the report continued, the road detour to get to Oban is 100 miles each way while this direct road and the railway remain closed. Ouch!

 

[Vulcan]

Does anyone know what happend to Royaloak? He usually has things to say on topics like this.

I would have thought it possible to recover the 156 car with a rail crane, I wouldn't have thought a 156 car (40 tons?) would be heavy enough to require one of those hefty road cranes.
However, there are probably issues with the condition of the track, position of the 156, etc. which means they have to use a road crane.

 

[Bittern]

Woha. I can barley do 10 miles on a bus never mind 100+!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Yes, they will have to use a road crane because of the angle of it, judging from the pictures on TV etc. It looks like it will be one of the most awkward recoveries ever.

Are the two carriages still physically attached to each other? If they are, you have to recover the one that's still on the track after the one that tipped over.

 

[sprinterguy]

Are the two carriages still physically attached to each other? If they are, you have to recover the one that's still on the track after the one that tipped over.

No, the leading carriage that fell down the embankment is uncoupled from the rear carriage. I agree that it is going to be one of the most awkward recoveries ever!

 

[Crossforth]

Is the rear car, that is still on the embankment, is it still on the track? and if not, how easy will it be to re rail it to simply drive it away?

 

[sprinterguy]

Is the rear car, that is still on the embankment, is it still on the track? and if not, how easy will it be to re rail it to simply drive it away?

From the photos it appears that the inner end bogie on the rear carriage is derailed at least, so that will have to be re-railed. I wonder if a single 156 carriage is allowed to be driven on it's own, I've never heard of such an occurence? Or whether that carriage will have to be returned to Glasgow by road as well?

I just can't begin to imagine how they are going to lift the front carriage off of the embankment-I would think that in order to get the crane hook and harnesses in around it, they would have to remove quite a few of the trees, but it's only the trees that are keeping it there in the first place as far as I can tell

 

[GB]

Having seen the pictures that the RIO took, with the greatest will in the world you are not going to re-rail and drive it off into the sunset!

 

[A60K]

I wonder if a single 156 carriage is allowed to be driven on it's own, I've never heard of such an occurence?

It is technically possible, yes - the 156 that went to the Netherlands was driven onto the ferry at Dover as two separate carriages. Whether the rear carriage in this accident is driveable is another matter though.

 

[CarterUSM]

It is technically possible, yes - the 156 that went to the Netherlands was driven onto the ferry at Dover as two separate carriages. Whether the rear carriage in this accident is driveable is another matter though.

It happens in yards fairly regularly too.

 

[Old Timer]

From the photos it appears that the inner end bogie on the rear carriage is derailed at least, so that will have to be re-railed. I wonder if a single 156 carriage is allowed to be driven on it's own, I've never heard of such an occurence? Or whether that carriage will have to be returned to Glasgow by road as well?

I just can't begin to imagine how they are going to lift the front carriage off of the embankment-I would think that in order to get the crane hook and harnesses in around it, they would have to remove quite a few of the trees, but it's only the trees that are keeping it there in the first place as far as I can tell

The plan is to use a large road crane to lift the vehicle onto a road trailer and take it away by road, however it will be necessary to strengthen the road at this location to take the weight of the crane and recovery vehicles, etc and consequently civil engineers are being called in to develop an appropriate solution.

This is not necessarily going to be a quick or cheap operation as I understand it.

 

[455driver]

Would it be possible to use one of those steel roads that battle tanks use (or something similar).
Dream mode-
Now a 156 coach is only 35 tonnes so would it be possible to lift the lower end up (17.5 tonnes) and put it back on the track, you could get away with using a lighter crane but it would need a very long jib so that probably means you would still need a big crane but it wouldn't be loaded to such a high all up weight. Take a couple of spare bogie's, drop the cab end onto one of those, pick up the other end and put that on the other bogie and drag it with the other coach. There sorted .

 

[Old Timer]

Would it be possible to use one of those steel roads that battle tanks use (or something similar)..

I understand that the road is supported on cantilever arrangement