urpert
Member
Still holding out hope we end up with the 458s too!Maybe they're going for the TransPennine "variety mix" award!
Still holding out hope we end up with the 458s too!Maybe they're going for the TransPennine "variety mix" award!
Herne Hill - the track circuits are longer than 10 car. The theoretical problems is the location of the platform door monitors which are positioned for 8 car networkers but which is completely academic with 707s as they have bodyside camera and in cab monitors! Brixton down side is the only real problem but that has solutions too.Can't use 10 cars on Vic - Orp services as they'll foul the junction at Brixton and Herne Hill. They're going on to London Bridge Metro Stuff where the need for additional capacity is greatest.
They'll receive a "southeastern" sticker on top of the SWR logo if we're lucky.will these trains recieve the full blue livery (375) or the 465/466 livery?
Not exactly going well for TPE!Maybe they're going for the TransPennine "variety mix" award!
If you mean 458s for SE, please no, while their reliability maybe better it's hardly a knock to low Networker reliability by receiving another fleet that has a poor reliability history. Besides 3 metro classes is more than enough hassle let alone 4.Still holding out hope we end up with the 458s too!
Herne Hill - the track circuits are longer than 10 car. The theoretical problems is the location of the platform door monitors which are positioned for 8 car networkers but which is completely academic with 707s as they have bodyside camera and in cab monitors!
707 on the ex-LCDR side would also mean far more 12 car running on the via London Bridge side.
At this point I would order more 707 cars to extend the 707s to 6 cars for 12 car working as well as additional ones to replace the rest of the metro fleet, but I'll leave this to the more 707s thread.in the hope 12 car Networkers are more achievable.
As to the cameras. Will they be in use ? Will 707s get their own stop marks ?
LCDR ?
The acceleration on a 707 is hardly 'poor'.
458s are not unreliable. I’ve been a daily traveller on them for much of the last 10 years and can count the number of failures I’ve experienced on my fingers. The 458s are by far the most comfortable of the SWR suburban fleet - enjoy the ironing boards in the 707s!If you mean 458s for SE, please no, while their reliability maybe better it's hardly a knock to low Networker reliability by receiving another fleet that has a poor reliability history. Besides 3 metro classes is more than enough hassle let alone 4.
If any fleet has to leave to accomodate 707s the 466s are the only ones that make sense, considering the low PRM compliance and restricted working of the latter, while a net gain in carriages is still maintained in the hope 12 car Networkers are more achievable. No 465s should leave until a full replacement is achieved for the entire Networker fleet.
466s can't be part of 12 car sets as the extra cabs compared to 3 x 465s make them too long for most platforms.If the 707's allow more 12 car 465's, can these be made of 465+465+466+466 in order to use up the 466's?
I would have thought so? Surely they are of higher quality than the platform equipment and so it's safer to use them, not to mention operationally easier as sighting the monitors from the cab is going to be tricky.
I wouldn't think that dedicated stop boards will be necessary unless they're going to start doing SDO with them
- the main reason for the 700 ones is to ensure that the middle of the train always lines up in the same place for wheelchair access - nothing comparable with the 707s.
London, Chatham and Dover Railway - ie Victoria Side
707s will have to use the DOO Equipment as the driver, unlike the current metro stock, cannot see out the side window. Like a 700 its behind the driver, so you'd have to leave the seat each time and lower the window. No point when you have DOO Equipment...
would that involve a change to the drivers T&Cs?Would strike me as odd that they’re not in use on 377 DOO services if there was nothing contractual stopping it.
The aircon and larger doors will be nice, but the seating is hardly an upgrade, especially in the bizarre 2 + 1 sectionThey'll receive a "southeastern" sticker on top of the SWR logo if we're lucky.
Even then they will be an enormous upgrade for those of us used to Networker interiors.
Still holding out hope we end up with the 458s too!
I don't believe there are any locations where 377s would be DOO self dispatch on Southeastern. I think it's like the 375s where they are either platform staff dispatch, or guard dispatch.would that involve a change to the drivers T&Cs?Would strike me as odd that they’re not in use on 377 DOO services if there was nothing contractual stopping it.
Porterbrook do own them, but I have never seen any comment from them about the standard of construction or that they are definitely for scrap. Remember it is not that long since they were converted to 5-car: I doubt that investment has been recouped yet.Given the sheer state of them I believe 458s are to scrap. Relatively sure Porterbrook own them and confirmed that as the construction was a bit, erm, bad.
Herne Hill - the track circuits are longer than 10 car. The theoretical problems is the location of the platform door monitors which are positioned for 8 car networkers but which is completely academic with 707s as they have bodyside camera and in cab monitors! Brixton down side is the only real problem but that has solutions too.
707 on the ex-LCDR side would also mean far more 12 car running on the via London Bridge side.
Porterbrook do own them, but I have never seen any comment from them about the standard of construction or that they are definitely for scrap. Remember it is not that long since they were converted to 5-car: I doubt that investment has been recouped yet.
I get the distinct feeling the investment was recouped in 'over the odds' rental costs... They are shot.
I rather agree with you. I did use them for the best part of the last 3 years as part of my job, and they weren't in the best of condition. Mind you, I travelled on a few ScotRail examples in what you could have called last summer too, they didn't exactly feel that well loved either. Part of me wonders if we'll see a wholesale replacement of the Juniper fleets over the next decade, with them becoming the first proper post privatisation unit going for scrap.
Given that Porterbrook said at the time of conversion that they were prepared to take the risk over the then-SWT franchise end, then unless they have been fleecing SWR since because they don't want them full term (if they are, well done!) then they haven't recouped the investment.I get the distinct feeling the investment was recouped in 'over the odds' rental costs... They are shot.
The 458/460 programme provided the best value to DfT for the Windsor Lines 10-car project (which also debunks your "over the odds" rental costs claim) - that is why they were chosen. Quite why you think they were to "use up" the 460s I don't know - the availability of the 460s was obviously why Porterbrook could offer the solution in the first place, and probably influenced the commercial terms.Quite what Scotland wish to do with them is entirely up to them, but a former colleague now at Wimbledon Park / East Wimbledon suggests that the two toilets were the single biggest issue (334s don't have toilets from memory) as they were so sha**ed that they were putting effluent where it shouldn't have been, leading to heavy rusting, bubbling floors and such. I'm sure the 458s will head to the scrap pile, not least because they were only hashed up to use up 460s as Porterbrook didn't want all that stock sitting about.
will these trains recieve the full blue livery (375) or the 465/466 livery?
I agree 376s should be done first; I'm pretty sure they've never had a refurbishment in their entire existence. In general though I doubt a proper livery will happen without a full franchise award or whatever the Williams' review decides happening that will make a 707 relivery worthwhile.Far too early to splash out on a complete relivery or revinyl I would have thought.
And let's face it, the 376's are long overdue for relivery and should be first in the queue if SouthEastern keep them
Will 707s need route certification ?