First Greater Glasgow

[lastbus]

This is definitely true as Blantyre depot doing all the extra 266 and 241 work

They are running duplicates for social distancing purposes. It’s nothing to do with JMB who wouldn’t know what social distancing is right enough!

 

[Busmaddy]

They are running duplicates for social distancing purposes. It’s nothing to do with JMB who wouldn’t know what social distancing is right enough!

Ok I didn’t know that thanks for the information lastbus

 

[overthewater]

What does Scotrail Controlled mean? Sorry if this sounds stupid I've never heard it before

Very quick overview. When First won the Scotrail franchise, a number of bus routes within Central Scotland were placed into agreement where bus companies had to operate certains NO matter what, even if all the passengers disappeared or switched to different destinations or switched to the improved train service etc.

262 to Airdrie, All the West Lothian Express etc were all part of that list.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/55194bd140f0b61404000358/acceptance_of_undertakings.pdf

 

[Busman84]

When First still had the Scotrail contract they did cutbacks on routes that were part of that agreement. This went through the Office or Fair Trading. I remember some routes they cutback at the time giving the ok by OFT. The 18 was one I think it was a 20 minute service all evening and they got the ok and it went to half hourly. The 19/43 daytime was cut down to half hourly. They wanted to scrap the 31 from Carmunnock to EK and the OFT said no. First claimed the 31 was virtually not used and OFT disagreed so that’s why it stayed in service.

Edit: Infact I might have been mistaken by the 18 and it was the scrapping of the 16 service

*mod note* If you wish to correct a post, please EDIT your post rather than creating a new one with the correction.

 

[PaulMc7]

Seen a petition now for the 31 and I'd imagine there's going to be ones for the X1 and 208 again somewhere. I doubt First would cave in twice over the X1 but with the others I'm not sure what could happen

 

[route101]

I

Seen a petition now for the 31 and I'd imagine there's going to be ones for the X1 and 208 again somewhere. I doubt First would cave in twice over the X1 but with the others I'm not sure what could happen

Yes , good to see a petition. Hopefully something will come of it. 31 was busy at peaks. Seen a lot of people ask for it.

I was in Edinburgh yesterday and compared to first they dont have any seats blocked out !

 

[route101]

The cries of "essential service" for the 31 and X1 seem to have started on social media. The 31 you could technically argue that it's essential as it's the only bus in parts of the route and they've had no warning of a cut with this unlike the X1. The X1 was mobbed at peaks but god knows what you could do with the off peak in order to keep it. It wasn't exactly busier after it was saved the last time off peak from personal experience.

Could the route in Hamilton have been changed? Probably but to what really?

High Earnock-Fairhill-Hillhouse-Burnbank-Hamilton-M74-M73-M8 then town is the only thing I can think of

Id say the 31 was essential , only link from Kings Park, Castlemilk , Carmunnock to EK . Only link from Stewartfield to Glasgow. I think the route was dropped back in April , if was not it would been back hourly by now.

 

[route101]

Tbh is a complete redesign of the network really that bad an idea? personally my view would be rip up the current network and redesign it using a hub and spoke method I.e. have high frequency services every 5 mins between fixed points i.e. bbs partick, qeuh govan
Then from these out stations run local services that can be single deckers but less frequent say every half hour route example govan pollok

Then loads of people would have to change then!

 

[route101]

First actually communicating instead of customers having to find out from local politicians and the papers might have been a start. It's pretty shady when you look at it that way and ultimately if you treat your passengers like that you deserve to lose them

Yeah, mixed messages , route suspended , first no longer operating SPT journeys and 31 route permently stopped.

There was a rumour that the 21 was going to be dropped to.

 

[route101]

What services do we think are really under threat?

That's 3 in total for cuts now but I can see a good few more:

I can see this 4/4A timetable becoming permanent

3 and 6 frequency being cut

8 being cut back to Partick

16 going completely as it's not busy outside of peaks

32 going despite actually being busy when I've seen it

34/34A being merged into one

43 going 1 an hour

46 maybe going 1 an hour

64 frequency being dropped from every 30 mins to hourly

81 frequency dropping

89/89A/89B being kept as the current timetable with just the 89/89B

255 short workings axed

Hourly buses are nightmare for connections , it puts people off.

Had to wait an hour last night for a 6 , hopefully back to every 30 mins at night soon along with train,

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The problem is just like X23, The peak service was busy and well used but come 9am the service run around dead and its like what can first do for six hours until the Evening peak picks up again. Better Question should be why has off peak passengers stop going to Glasgow? Where are they going instead. Hamilton still have one Express service from Glasgow every hour Via X74.

Yeah it's a tough one but the X1 is definitely needed at peaks. Apparently it's been put forward as an idea to First before to run it as a peak only service and they never done it. Would make plenty of sense to do it that way plus the tech park could be potential as Stagecoach are cutting the X16 that runs through it

The problem is that you have a strong peak hour requirement but the off peak is so weak, it doesn't pay. Even if you knock off the off peak journeys, you're going to save a bit of diesel/tyre wear but otherwise, the costs are pretty fixed.... the driver, the bus, etc.

Why is it happening? Well, (and caveat it with the pre Covid world when people weren't working from home as much), there was a definite need to travel into city centres for work and to study. The off peak was mainly shoppers and that has declined with the general woes of the high street, and of course, a number of those are now concessions anyway. It doesn't help when there's a fast, cheap rail line that people can use; the X1 has areas where it is the only link but the patronage from those just isn't enough.

 

[Volvodart]

First actually communicating instead of customers having to find out from local politicians and the papers might have been a start. It's pretty shady when you look at it that way and ultimately if you treat your passengers like that you deserve to lose them

There is a requirement to consult with Councils 28 days before any changes are lodged with the Traffic Commissioner. First would not normally say anything until the changes are registered with the Traffic Commissioner and accepted by them after that.

 

[PaulMc7]

There is a requirement to consult with Councils 28 days before any changes are lodged with the Traffic Commissioner. First would not normally say anything until the changes are registered with the Traffic Commissioner and accepted by them after that.

That's a massive problem in itself though. 28 days could also be plenty of time for people to respond to the changes before they get registered and could massively alter what actually happens. The paying public should be hearing from First for themselves and never through any councillors or MSPs. That's just awful customer service

 

[Volvodart]

That is the requirements.

 

[PaulMc7]

That is the requirements.

Not discussing things with the people who are the reason you make money isn't part of what you said. You can discuss with the public at the same time as councils. Stagecoach do it just fine outside of the X16 cut just now. It's a cop out for First

 

[Volvodart]

If they are expecting about 80% of passengers to return in the long term, every bus company will be making cuts.

 

[PaulMc7]

If they are expecting about 80% of passengers to return in the long term, every bus company will be making cuts.

Well communicate them properly then. I mean it's really not that hard especially when you serve the public

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Well communicate them properly then. I mean it's really not that hard especially when you serve the public

I'm probably being a bit slow here but what exactly are you expecting operators to do?

Are you expecting First to say.... we are proposing to cut service A by so much, withdraw service B and curtail service C to the general public in advance of anyone else including local authorities? And if so, what do you then expect the bus companies to do? Are you expecting a statement of fact (i.e. this is what we're doing and why)?

Or are you suggesting something interactive like a consultation? However, as we've seen with the X1, it's easy to have masses of people contributing on-line to a petition but sadly, that level of contribution isn't then reflected in ridership.

NOTE: the fact that SPT are stoking up the media with the Scottish Government https://www.transportxtra.com/publi...-as-ministers-fail-to-fund-extra-covid-costs/ might explain a bit of reluctance to get involved

 

[lastbus]

Not discussing things with the people who are the reason you make money isn't part of what you said. You can discuss with the public at the same time as councils. Stagecoach do it just fine outside of the X16 cut just now. It's a cop out for First

You seem overly concerned by the loss of a bus you don’t even use. The X1 was losing money for years and was coming off before all this happened until the petition saved it short term. If only the people who signed the petition actually used the service then maybe we wouldn’t be discussing the axing of it.

 

[PaulMc7]

I'm probably being a bit slow here but what exactly are you expecting operators to do?

Are you expecting First to say.... we are proposing to cut service A by so much, withdraw service B and curtail service C to the general public in advance of anyone else including local authorities? And if so, what do you then expect the bus companies to do? Are you expecting a statement of fact (i.e. this is what we're doing and why)?

Or are you suggesting something interactive like a consultation? However, as we've seen with the X1, it's easy to have masses of people contributing on-line to a petition but sadly, that level of contribution isn't then reflected in ridership.

NOTE: the fact that SPT are stoking up the media with the Scottish Government https://www.transportxtra.com/publi...-as-ministers-fail-to-fund-extra-covid-costs/ might explain a bit of reluctance to get involved

Consultation 3 months in advance of any changes. Make the plans completely clear and get as much feedback as humanly possible. The public are the key to holding the industry together and it's time bus companies don't forget that. Treat them how they should be treated and not how they have been by First for years. There have obviously been other factors to First's decline in passenger numbers but it's definitely a case where we shouldn't ignore that First contribute to that falling passenger total on their own

 

[PaulMc7]

You seem overly concerned by the loss of a bus you don’t even use. The X1 was losing money for years and was coming off before all this happened until the petition saved it short term. If only the people who signed the petition actually used the service then maybe we wouldn’t be discussing the axing of it.

It's not about just the X1 though it's how First treat passengers in the first place. They're the key to First making any money after this and if First keep mistreating the people who've been loyal to them it'll only hurt more. I want First to do well but I will always call out shoddy performance from them too and this is shoddy

 

[Scotrail88]

Consultation 3 months in advance of any changes. Make the plans completely clear and get as much feedback as humanly possible. The public are the key to holding the industry together and it's time bus companies don't forget that. Treat them how they should be treated and not how they have been by First for years. There have obviously been other factors to First's decline in passenger numbers but it's definitely a case where we shouldn't ignore that First contribute to that falling passenger total on their own

Consultations are always pointless.
Tell someone the bus is coming off - what do you expect their response to be.
Politicians shouted like hell back in October, what did they do after? No further support or encouragement of people to use the service.

I can see the same kicking up at the moment about peak 68 being withdrawn next week? The bus was full - albeit a small bus, but still withdrawn.

Times are changing, this is the new reality. Anyone who thinks nothing will change needs to seek help.

 

[PaulMc7]

Consultations are always pointless.
Tell someone the bus is coming off - what do you expect their response to be.
Politicians shouted like hell back in October, what did they do after? No further support or encouragement of people to use the service.

I can see the same kicking up at the moment about peak 68 being withdrawn next week? The bus was full - albeit a small bus, but still withdrawn.

Times are changing, this is the new reality. Anyone who thinks nothing will change needs to seek help.

Times are changing but First aren't doing themselves any favours whatsoever and is treating customers so badly going to get them government support? Let's be realistic it's really not

 

[lastbus]

Times are changing but First aren't doing themselves any favours whatsoever and is treating customers so badly going to get them government support? Let's be realistic it's really not

Don’t think customer service is anything to do with why they are being given government support. It’s for social distancing and keeping buses on during the pandemic.

 

[PaulMc7]

Don’t think customer service is anything to do with why they are being given government support. It’s for social distancing and keeping buses on during the pandemic.

Yeah they're getting it because of the pandemic just now but after that is a very different matter. The claim always is that they don't get enough funding in general but ultimately do First deserve it which to me is a resounding no and constantly alienating passengers won't help the government feel that First deserve anything

 

[lastbus]

Yeah they're getting it because of the pandemic just now but after that is a very different matter. The claim always is that they don't get enough funding in general but ultimately do First deserve it which to me is a resounding no and constantly alienating passengers won't help the government feel that First deserve anything

Who claims they don’t get enough funding?

 

[PaulMc7]

Who claims they don’t get enough funding?

It's been mentioned on here before in comparison to the trains etc and road improvements

 

[Stan Drews]

I can see the same kicking up at the moment about peak 68 being withdrawn next week? The bus was full - albeit a small bus, but still withdrawn.

Times are changing, this is the new reality. Anyone who thinks nothing will change needs to seek help.

The 68 has never been anywhere close to being full, but SPT have still been fairly quiet about its demise!
I won’t stop hundreds complaining about it though!

 

[overthewater]

If Spt wanted to save money they should ask first to start one of the First 89s from Balmore, That would save some pennies and make the return trip Request only.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

Then loads of people would have to change then!

Again not really how many people for example use the 41 from town to the very end of the route
Part of it would be a redesign of the fares structure i.e. bring the All day down to say £3
Have singles at £1
Child fares at £1.50 and 50p
Family ticket at £6
Weekly at £15
4 weekly £50
And most people would not mind a transfer if the overall time was shorter which it would be i.e. a bus from buchanan bust station to the fort takes 10 mins on the m8 the link bus from the fort to say aberdalgie rd is about 5 mins even with change over total journey time is 25 mins much faster than the 60 or 41