First Greater Glasgow

[PaulMc7]

The sunday service 31 used to go the 5 route . People are likely to use train from Mount Florida. More freqent and cheaper.

Yeah and this is the thing with pricing all over Glasgow. If you want people on buses then they need to be cheaper

 

[route101]

This is why I think to limit the damage from the current situation a ton of consultation needs to be done from all operators and politicians. You'll probably find out answers on where people want to go pretty quickly if you ask them. If Philipshill was used to link the 31 to the 6 for the city centre link the cut would probably have gone down so much better plus then there's a link for Castlemilk/Carmunnock passengers to get into East Kilbride too. I do think Stewartfield/Kirktonholme does need something though from First

The people of Stewartfield and rest of route in East Kilbride want the link to the City Centre. Diverting a 395 or 205 or M1 will carry fresh air apart from some elderly going to East Kilbride.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

If you want people on buses then they need to be cheaper

I'm sure if it wasn't this simple then there wouldn't be an annual fare rise!

 

[route101]

Yeah and this is the thing with pricing all over Glasgow. If you want people on buses then they need to be cheaper

Confusing fares , i see people put £1.70 from say Mount Florida town yet i think it should be £2.50 single.

 

[PaulMc7]

The people of Stewartfield and rest of route in East Kilbride want the link to the City Centre. Diverting a 395 or 205 or M1 will carry fresh air apart from some elderly going to East Kilbride.

All 3 of them tend to be quite quiet from what I've seen as it is as well. M1 I've not seen as much of but when I have seen it you're lucky if there's many onboard. Used the 395 once and it was pretty empty after Greenhills and I've used the 205 a few times and it's been busier outside of EK considering the 201 is the quicker option to Burnbank/Hamilton

 

[route101]

All 3 of them tend to be quite quiet from what I've seen as it is as well. M1 I've not seen as much of but when I have seen it you're lucky if there's many onboard. Used the 395 once and it was pretty empty after Greenhills and I've used the 205 a few times and it's been busier outside of EK considering the 201 is the quicker option to Burnbank/Hamilton

I think the 205 only survives in EK because of the hospital link.

 

[PaulMc7]

I think the 205 only survives in EK because of the hospital link.

Yeah that's true. Wonder if it'll be under threat for funding if SPT's struggles continue

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm sure if it wasn't this simple then there wouldn't be an annual fare rise!

Exactly, and if you halved fares, would you double revenues? Would costs increase and by how much? Saying to lower fares and how you do it without cutting your own throat are two very different things

 

[PaulMc7]

The reason I focus on fares and why they need reduced is down to the fact there's too many instances where the price doesn't compete with the other options to get around. If you want people on buses then price plays a massive part in getting people on them.

If you want to reduce costs relating to PVR then dropping services down a frequency level is the best bet there. Even before the pandemic there would be instances where the most used services could have a bus or two an hour where they really weren't that busy.

It's why communicating with customers could work. You'd find where and when you need services to run and when you don't need them as much.

I know people won't agree with me because they never do but in a city with high levels of poverty prices need to be cheaper. Even if it was £2 for a single and £4 an all day it would probably compete far better and it's not so low to the point where you'd need an insane passenger number increase. Rounded prices would also encourage cash customers too as you wouldn't need to spend money just to get change for the bus

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Increasing single fares and trying to keep multi-use tickets as low as possible is probably the best bet re fares. It means you still get more off of the "odd traveller" and more concessionary reimbursement, meanwhile the more regular/loyal customers get the best deal.

 

[PaulMc7]

Increasing single fares and trying to keep multi-use tickets as low as possible is probably the best bet re fares. It means you still get more off of the "odd traveller" and more concessionary reimbursement, meanwhile the more regular/loyal customers get the best deal.

The problem is that doesn't even happen a lot of the time. Unless you're going a fair distance then the bus isn't usually cheaper for monthlys etc. Even without any rail card the last time I checked the train into Glasgow city centre was roughly the same as the bus plus with the train monthly me and monthly and not like the 4 week thing First do. The only reason I used the bus is because there's more of them and I've got used to 1s being late very consistently

 

[sannox]

Do operators not up single cash fares due to account for low government rebates for concessions?

That said I agree buses now struggle with fare costs. I've heard 'we may as well take an uber' and it's true when you have more than yourself.

 

[PaulMc7]

Do operators not up single cash fares due to account for low government rebates for concessions?

That said I agree buses now struggle with fare costs. I've heard 'we may as well take an uber' and it's true when you have more than yourself.

It's why night buses compared to when I used them fell away a fair bit. It was handy for me because the N2 was literally 20 mins but if there's a group of people say even 3 or 4 a taxi could easily be cheaper. I do feel for bus companies as low rebates aren't great but if that's your sole strategy then the service you offer needs to be top class and a lot of people don't think First are great at all. I think if we had a company with far less operations than First then bus use would generally be higher because there's less to focus on. A big problem is the imbalance between the best buses in operation and the worst. It's pretty easy to figure out how well a bus does by the vehicles on the route. There are some trend breakers like the 7 for example though

 

[Jordan Adam]

It's why night buses compared to when I used them fell away a fair bit. It was handy for me because the N2 was literally 20 mins but if there's a group of people say even 3 or 4 a taxi could easily be cheaper. I do feel for bus companies as low rebates aren't great but if that's your sole strategy then the service you offer needs to be top class and a lot of people don't think First are great at all. I think if we had a company with far less operations than First then bus use would generally be higher because there's less to focus on. A big problem is the imbalance between the best buses in operation and the worst. It's pretty easy to figure out how well a bus does by the vehicles on the route. There are some trend breakers like the 7 for example though

"a lot of people don't think First are great at all"
It's easy to get in that mind set however thinks their service is the worst and everyone thinks it's too expensive, when most of the time that isn't the case, using the bus is still generally cheaper than buying and owning a car, buying a car is an important point as many people ignore that and only compare the running costs.

"I think if we had a company with far less operations than First then bus use would generally be higher because there's less to focus on."
Not true. Each division has it's own local management, FirstGroup "higher management" have next to no involvement over routes, fares, vehicle allocations etc.

 

[PaulMc7]

"a lot of people don't think First are great at all"
It's easy to get in that mind set however thinks their service is the worst and everyone thinks it's too expensive, when most of the time that isn't the case, using the bus is still generally cheaper than buying and owning a car, buying a car is an important point as many people ignore that and only compare the running costs.

"I think if we had a company with far less operations than First then bus use would generally be higher because there's less to focus on."
Not true. Each division has it's own local management, FirstGroup "higher management" have next to no involvement over routes, fares, vehicle allocations etc.

People do think First are terrible though and it is pretty common. A lot of people are stuck using them because they don't have any other option.That's not healthy. Nobody can deny that.

The key with a car though is that things like insurance get cheaper each year If you shop around and if you're pretty lucky you don't need to fork out loads on repairs. Also a car has a sell-on value if you want rid of it.

If there's less to focus on think of it from an investment point of view especially. The main thing that lead to a great deal of investment in Glasgow was the LEZ plans. Less operations would have opened up the funding for consistent improvement of the buses operating as regular investment could be made.

 

[adrock1976]

"a lot of people don't think First are great at all"
It's easy to get in that mind set however thinks their service is the worst and everyone thinks it's too expensive, when most of the time that isn't the case, using the bus is still generally cheaper than buying and owning a car, buying a car is an important point as many people ignore that and only compare the running costs.

"I think if we had a company with far less operations than First then bus use would generally be higher because there's less to focus on."
Not true. Each division has it's own local management, FirstGroup "higher management" have next to no involvement over routes, fares, vehicle allocations etc.

What exactly do the higher management do, as it appears that they do nothing?

 

[PaulMc7]

Spotted this on Facebook from around just over a week ago. Not seen anything more recent but it's interesting to see that the X1 might come back. I'm not 100% expecting it back but I wasn't expecting the 208 back either way

 

[route101]

Increasing single fares and trying to keep multi-use tickets as low as possible is probably the best bet re fares. It means you still get more off of the "odd traveller" and more concessionary reimbursement, meanwhile the more regular/loyal customers get the best deal.

Sounds like McGills

 

[route101]

People do think First are terrible though and it is pretty common. A lot of people are stuck using them because they don't have any other option.That's not healthy. Nobody can deny that.

The key with a car though is that things like insurance get cheaper each year If you shop around and if you're pretty lucky you don't need to fork out loads on repairs. Also a car has a sell-on value if you want rid of it.

If there's less to focus on think of it from an investment point of view especially. The main thing that lead to a great deal of investment in Glasgow was the LEZ plans. Less operations would have opened up the funding for consistent improvement of the buses operating as regular investment could be made.

The thing about buying a car is the high intial cost. Insurance , finance or outright. Amazes people , young people buying these cars , must be on finance.

Id love to buy a car but dont have the cash.

 

[route101]

Spotted this on Facebook from around just over a week ago. Not seen anything more recent but it's interesting to see that the X1 might come back. I'm not 100% expecting it back but I wasn't expecting the 208 back either way

Maybe something will come for 31 who knows.

 

[Stan Drews]

Sounds like McGills

Sounds like most sensible businesses!

 

[jcf5561]

Sounds like McGills

But then the folks who can't afford to pay for a Weekly/Monthly etc ticket upfront and have no choice but to use singles are shafted with paying extortionate single fares.

 

[PaulMc7]

But then the folks who can't afford to pay for a Weekly/Monthly etc ticket upfront and have no choice but to use singles are shafted with paying extortionate single fares.

Which is part of why I made my initial point. Getting rid of the returns didn't help either. They were somewhat reasonable. With how little difference there is between singles and returns on trains off peak there's no chance people would willingly use a bus when they have a train option too even if they'd then need to walk a bit

 

[Stan Drews]

But then the folks who can't afford to pay for a Weekly/Monthly etc ticket upfront and have no choice but to use singles are shafted with paying extortionate single fares.

Multi-use day tickets are also usually competitively priced. Like I said, most businesses will generally offer their best value to customers the more they make use of their goods/services. Bus companies are little different in that respect.

 

[Stan Drews]

Which is part of why I made my initial point. Getting rid of the returns didn't help either. They were somewhat reasonable. With how little difference there is between singles and returns on trains off peak there's no chance people would willingly use a bus when they have a train option too even if they'd then need to walk a bit

So it’s okay for rail fares to be priced to ‘penalise’ those buying singles, but not okay for bus fares?

 

[PaulMc7]

So it’s okay for rail fares to be priced to ‘penalise’ those buying singles, but not okay for bus fares?

Where did I say that? Nobody should be penalised for using public transport

 

[sannox]

The thing about buying a car is the high intial cost. Insurance , finance or outright. Amazes people , young people buying these cars , must be on finance.

Id love to buy a car but dont have the cash.

Most new cars are on finance of some sort these days. A dealer once told me that 15 years ago he knew the on the road price of all cars in his dealership, now he'd struggle if someone asked cash, all he knows is monthly.

I remember when I was young you got your parents car if you were lucky or you saved up for a banger. Now it seems most 18 year olds get given cars for themselves!

Used cars can be a bit of a bargain these days, if you can get a good one and not one flogged by someone who hasn't cared cause they're handing it back.

 

[jcf5561]

Multi-use day tickets are also usually competitively priced. Like I said, most businesses will generally offer their best value to customers the more they make use of their goods/services. Bus companies are little different in that respect.

Did you actually read my post? I said that not everyone can afford to pay £17 odd upfront for a weekly ticket and instead have to rely on buying single fares. If those single fares become too expensive like they have in Glasgow then what are they supposed to do?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Did you actually read my post? I said that not everyone can afford to pay £17 odd upfront for a weekly ticket and instead have to rely on buying single fares. If those single fares become too expensive like they have in Glasgow then what are they supposed to do?

£17 for a weekly isn't that bad, most places are on par or far worse..

 

[Stan Drews]

Where did I say that? Nobody should be penalised for using public transport

With how little difference there is between singles and returns on trains off peak

If there is little difference between singles and returns, is that not penalising those buying singles?