West Lothian buses

[OmniCity999]

Why use extra service vehicles and Leopard coaches on low demand services when their making good money on rail replacements. Thats the thinking of a company that wants to make money, not a vanity project.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Why use extra service vehicles and Leopard coaches on low demand services when their making good money on rail replacements. Thats the thinking of a company that wants to make money, not a vanity project.

Glad to see the logic at the top has changed then.

Saw one of the Leopards racing through Aberdeen yesterday on Rail Rep. Looked very smart, although i still think the "Green" text on a green background was a mistake as i could barely read it!

 

[mb88]

Some interesting changes, i think these pretty much confirm the X17 will not be going back in to the city and the EX2/X38 are not returning. The 281 is an interesting move too, although surely if it's going to Fauldhouse it would make sense for the 276 to go to Fauldhouse also? Clearly LC are trying to compete on the Livingston - Bathgate corridor more seeing as the frequency is overall now the same of that at First (8 buses per hour).

Indeed. From my own experience of the X17 there seems to be far more Fauldhouse to Bathgate passengers than Fauldhouse to Livingston.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

So the X38 still hasn’t returned, also noted the N43 is not going to Kirkliston anymore so I wonder if that confirms if Lothian are done with that area, surprised to see they are hitting up Fauldhouse again, is the new 281 mirroring the 26 route between Bathgate and Fauldhouse?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It would included x38 and ex2 being gone. On top of that x17 not going into Edinburgh, 275 not going to the gyle and 280 cut from every 20min to 30min has also reduced PVR.

Thanks - that’s much clearer.

Some interesting changes, i think these pretty much confirm the X17 will not be going back in to the city and the EX2/X38 are not returning. The 281 is an interesting move too, although surely if it's going to Fauldhouse it would make sense for the 276 to go to Fauldhouse also? Clearly LC are trying to compete on the Livingston - Bathgate corridor more seeing as the frequency is overall now the same of that at First (8 buses per hour).

Hmmm... what next from First?

It was always clear (to most) that it was within Livi/Bathgate where the real trade was. See what happens next in these times.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Sep 2020 ==

Why use extra service vehicles and Leopard coaches on low demand services when their making good money on rail replacements. Thats the thinking of a company that wants to make money, not a vanity project.

Fair points - does that indicate a change of view nowadays?

 

[CN04NRJ]

It would included x38 and ex2 being gone. On top of that x17 not going into Edinburgh, 275 not going to the gyle and 280 cut from every 20min to 30min has also reduced PVR.

New service 281 has increased the overall frequency between Livingston and Bathgate though?

 

[overthewater]

Yes, hence why i said pvr has gone up overall by 4 but is well down by pre covid numbers.

 

[OmniCity999]

Fair points - does that indicate a change of view nowadays?

What, making money? Yeah thats now the view of the business, now that Hall is gone.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

What, making money? Yeah thats now the view of the business, now that Hall is gone.

It was more your use of the phrase "vanity project".

At the risk of talking in the third person, it was what I was driving at when I referenced my post from last year. That Lothian went into West Lothian was a bit of a surprise, and at that time (i.e. when First had already renewed some fleet and had shown some commitment); it seemed a little late in the game. Fundamentally, competing within the Bathgate and Livi areas and some routes to Edinburgh from Livi (which doesn't have a train service in close proximity), it did make some sense and it may still do now.

The introduction of the EX1/EX2 was a move that I found odd. A big money punt with new kit on services from towns with good train services, with the gamble being that you can capitalise on a bit of Scotrail unreliability and/or glean some passengers from the 'burbs (like Springfield); it seemed unlikely. The X38 was also a move that seemed a little late in the day.

What Covid does to either parties' ambitions, and hence my question about what First does now (if anything), is one I'm not willing the bet the house on though!

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Lothian Country service changes from the 13th of september.

Lothian Country routes:
Lothiancountry 43
Revised timetable with improved frequency at peak times on Mondays to Fridays.
Lothiancountry X17
This service is re-numbered 276 – see below.
Lothiancountry X18
Revised timetable with improved mid-evening timetable to and from Edinburgh. First early morning journey to Whitburn extended from Broxburn to start in Edinburgh city centre.

Lothiancountry X27
Minor timetable changes. Later evening bus from Whitburn to Livingston on Mondays to Saturdays. Last Sunday evening bus from Edinburgh will extend to Whitburn.

Lothiancountry X28
Minor timetable changes on all days. Last evening bus from Edinburgh will extend from Deans North to Bathgate.

Lothiancountry 275
Revised route and timetable. Buses will now serve Bathgate Morrisons in both directions. On journeys to Bathgate Rail Station, the route is altered to operate via Menzies Road and South Bridge Street instead of Whitburn Road. Later evening journeys introduced between Livingston and Broxburn.

Lothiancountry 276
Previously service X17, now renumbered to service 276. Revised timetable with a later journey in each direction.

Lothiancountry 280
Revised timetable, daytime frequency remains every 30-mins. The Sunday late evening timetable is improved with later journeys to match the Monday to Saturday timetable.

Lothiancountry 281
New service. Operates on a 30 min frequency Monday-Saturday between Livingston and Fauldhouse via Bathgate, Birniehill, and Whitburn. The route between Livingston and Bathgate is the same as the 280, so the daytime frequency on this section increases to every 15-mins. Between Bathgate and Fauldhouse, the service will operate via Morrisons, Birniehill, M8 Distribution Park, East Whitburn, Whitburn and Longridge.

Lothiancountry N28
Service re-introduced on all days of the week with 1-journey per night from Edinburgh to Bathgate. The route is altered and will now follow the daytime equivalent of the X28, serving Kirknewton, St John’s Hospital and Knightsridge, and will extend to Bathgate. Within the City, all bus stops along the route will be served.

Lothiancountry N43
Service re-introduced on all days of the week with 1-journey per night from Edinburgh to Queensferry

There is no source behind your post and I think you should delete it.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Details can be found here: https://www.lothianbuses.com/news/2020/09/service-change-13-september-2020/

(Currently on mobile so cannot copy/paste contents at the moment)

 

[OmniCity999]

It was more your use of the phrase "vanity project".

At the risk of talking in the third person, it was what I was driving at when I referenced my post from last year. That Lothian went into West Lothian was a bit of a surprise, and at that time (i.e. when First had already renewed some fleet and had shown some commitment); it seemed a little late in the game. Fundamentally, competing within the Bathgate and Livi areas and some routes to Edinburgh from Livi (which doesn't have a train service in close proximity), it did make some sense and it may still do now.

The introduction of the EX1/EX2 was a move that I found odd. A big money punt with new kit on services from towns with good train services, with the gamble being that you can capitalise on a bit of Scotrail unreliability and/or glean some passengers from the 'burbs (like Springfield); it seemed unlikely. The X38 was also a move that seemed a little late in the day.

What Covid does to either parties' ambitions, and hence my question about what First does now (if anything), is one I'm not willing the bet the house on though!

I believe we'll just see more of the same.

First doing what works for them and not necessarily the clientele and Lothian putting their fingers on two points of a map with their eyes closed with little thought with regards to times and integration.

First will potentially pick up more tendered work within Edinburgh.

Unrelated to that, Lothian's profits will continue to decline, as per Covid and other very obvious reasons and eventually we'll see big change. Maybe a move to a tendered service all over Edinburgh, run by TfE. Or sale.

Standards with Lothian have dropped since LCB expanded into West Lothian which is something that should really be sorted.

LCB should have bid for the 63 and 20. and run them as such:

263 - Balerno, Currie, Clovenstone, Westerhailes, Bankhead Colleges, Hermiston Gait, Gyle, Newbridge, Kirkliston, Tesco, South Queensferry

220 - RIE (via Craigmillar and Niddrie) Cameron Toll, Morningside, Slateford, Westerhailes, Hermiston Gait, Gyle, RBS Gogar, Ratho, Ingliston Park & Ride (if not Lothian Country, then Lothian)

(create the need for services, alter the Lothian 42 & 38 to work around a new Lothian Country 220, create integration. Niddrie are crying out for a direct service to Cameron Toll.)

You could even merge the two routes as such:

226 - RIE (via Craigmillar and Niddrie) Cameron Toll, Morningside, Slateford, Westerhailes, Hermiston Gait, Gyle, RBS Gogar, Ratho, Newbridge, Kirkliston, Tesco, South Queensferry

it's not about creating end to end journeys, its about taking smaller journeys people actually need to make and making it work for you.

Then also go after other tendered work, put the hard work in, reep the results.

There is no source behind your post and I think you should delete it.

Except on Social Media and Lothian's website...

 

[TheEastCoaster]

LCB should have bid for the 63 and 20. and run them as such:

263 - Balerno, Currie, Clovenstone, Westerhailes, Bankhead Colleges, Hermiston Gait, Gyle, Newbridge, Kirkliston, Tesco, South Queensferry

220 - RIE (via Craigmillar and Niddrie) Cameron Toll, Morningside, Slateford, Westerhailes, Hermiston Gait, Gyle, RBS Gogar, Ratho, Ingliston Park & Ride (if not Lothian Country, then Lothian)

(create the need for services, alter the Lothian 42 & 38 to work around a new Lothian Country 220, create integration. Niddrie are crying out for a direct service to Cameron Toll.)

You could even merge the two routes as such:

226 - RIE (via Craigmillar and Niddrie) Cameron Toll, Morningside, Slateford, Westerhailes, Hermiston Gait, Gyle, RBS Gogar, Ratho, Newbridge, Kirkliston, Tesco, South Queensferry

it's not about creating end to end journeys, its about taking smaller journeys people actually need to make and making it work for you.

I thought that too but supposedly the 20/63 we’re always meant to be 1.70/1.80 fares so I think that’s why Lothian ran it and not LCB!

and also i get what you mean about making smaller journeys work, and while that idea would make Lothian keep the Ratho link, i unfortonatly don’t see that happening anytime soon, but the idea of linking Niddrie with Morningside and Wester Hailes and Queensferry is definitely an ambitious one! I’ve always been a fan of cross city journeys like the 21/200/38/400, and Lothians range of day tickets is impressive and convient that I could actually picture that being popular!

if LCB were to run something like that commercially I would definitely use it, and if they won the bid for the 40/X40 it could make two services connect at the RIE

Even though the X17 is now the (276) does that definitly mean it will never run back to Edinburgh again? Because once the 275 finally returns to the Gyle like it should
of ages ago.... what’s to say the 276 will not run to Edinburgh? Perhaps as an all stopping service even! Also they should of extended the 276 back to Fauldhouse to connect with the now 281!

While It’s disappointing the X38 is not returned yet and Lothian have seemed to abandon Kirkliston, im optimistic it’s not the end of the service altogether, it is still registered right?

also maybe Lothian should look to reroute the 275 or 276 into the future via Winchburgh or Kirkliston

 

[Graham Alexand]

I seen Lothian Country 1042 (LXZ 5429) on service 275 today, i think the Gemini 2 B9TL's have made a come back.

 

[Bus9120UK]

I thought that too but supposedly the 20/63 we’re always meant to be 1.70/1.80 fares so I think that’s why Lothian ran it and not LCB!

and also i get what you mean about making smaller journeys work, and while that idea would make Lothian keep the Ratho link, i unfortonatly don’t see that happening anytime soon, but the idea of linking Niddrie with Morningside and Wester Hailes and Queensferry is definitely an ambitious one! I’ve always been a fan of cross city journeys like the 21/200/38/400, and Lothians range of day tickets is impressive and convient that I could actually picture that being popular!

if LCB were to run something like that commercially I would definitely use it, and if they won the bid for the 40/X40 it could make two services connect at the RIE

Even though the X17 is now the (276) does that definitly mean it will never run back to Edinburgh again? Because once the 275 finally returns to the Gyle like it should
of ages ago.... what’s to say the 276 will not run to Edinburgh? Perhaps as an all stopping service even! Also they should of extended the 276 back to Fauldhouse to connect with the now 281!

While It’s disappointing the X38 is not returned yet and Lothian have seemed to abandon Kirkliston, im optimistic it’s not the end of the service altogether, it is still registered right?

also maybe Lothian should look to reroute the 275 or 276 into the future via Winchburgh or Kirkliston

Pretty annoyed with X17 now unlikely going back to Edinburgh, and being renumbered. X17 was a really useful route, and probably the most useful LCB route personally, helped connect us here in Corstorphine and go to Livingston without going to another area to catch a different service. We won't be using First to go there either, so I am guessing if we do go to Livingston we'll have to go to the City Centre to catch an X27/28.

 

[GusB]

Lothian Country service changes from the 13th of september.

Lothian Country routes:
Lothiancountry 43
Revised timetable with improved frequency at peak times on Mondays to Fridays.
Lothiancountry X17
This service is re-numbered 276 – see below.
Lothiancountry X18
Revised timetable with improved mid-evening timetable to and from Edinburgh. First early morning journey to Whitburn extended from Broxburn to start in Edinburgh city centre.

Lothiancountry X27
Minor timetable changes. Later evening bus from Whitburn to Livingston on Mondays to Saturdays. Last Sunday evening bus from Edinburgh will extend to Whitburn.

Lothiancountry X28
Minor timetable changes on all days. Last evening bus from Edinburgh will extend from Deans North to Bathgate.

Lothiancountry 275
Revised route and timetable. Buses will now serve Bathgate Morrisons in both directions. On journeys to Bathgate Rail Station, the route is altered to operate via Menzies Road and South Bridge Street instead of Whitburn Road. Later evening journeys introduced between Livingston and Broxburn.

Lothiancountry 276
Previously service X17, now renumbered to service 276. Revised timetable with a later journey in each direction.

Lothiancountry 280
Revised timetable, daytime frequency remains every 30-mins. The Sunday late evening timetable is improved with later journeys to match the Monday to Saturday timetable.

Lothiancountry 281
New service. Operates on a 30 min frequency Monday-Saturday between Livingston and Fauldhouse via Bathgate, Birniehill, and Whitburn. The route between Livingston and Bathgate is the same as the 280, so the daytime frequency on this section increases to every 15-mins. Between Bathgate and Fauldhouse, the service will operate via Morrisons, Birniehill, M8 Distribution Park, East Whitburn, Whitburn and Longridge.

Lothiancountry N28
Service re-introduced on all days of the week with 1-journey per night from Edinburgh to Bathgate. The route is altered and will now follow the daytime equivalent of the X28, serving Kirknewton, St John’s Hospital and Knightsridge, and will extend to Bathgate. Within the City, all bus stops along the route will be served.

Lothiancountry N43
Service re-introduced on all days of the week with 1-journey per night from Edinburgh to Queensferry

Source required, please.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Sep 2020 ==

The fact its been well reported with Documents that council only got ONE BID for route no20 and that come from First.

If it has been well reported, it would be easier for us all to draw our own conclusions if some evidence and a link to the source was posted in the first place.
However, discussion of who did and didn't bid is detracting from the main discussion and we should draw a line under it.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Source required, please.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Sep 2020 ==


If it has been well reported, it would be easier for us all to draw our own conclusions if some evidence and a link to the source was posted in the first place.
However, discussion of who did and didn't bid is detracting from the main discussion and we should draw a line under it.

https://www.lothianbuses.com/news/2020/09/service-change-13-september-2020/

 

[JurassicMan]

More Balls in the air in search of the non existent "Golden formula" in West Lothian!!

Put simply it wont matter how many times you shuffle the cards there will still only ever be 52.

I think the 281 is going to make more returns than Frank Sinatra at this rate

 

[overthewater]

Its becoming clearer and clearer this "vanity project" is fallen apart. This is about being Pro first or Anti Lothian, its about common sense and seeing from the beginning that the management were idiots and had more money than sense, that's the bit that is infuriating to many of us, when Lothian could have done alot better. Yes the X38 should have started in Aug 2018, Yes the Green arrow had protensal, it could have work but yet its routes made no sense and its clear, its passengers numbers were not there either. The utter competent, the company had for West lothian, arriving years to later, and operating poor routes, poor fares is breath taking, and so many own goals. Thankful someone else has also spotted the standards of the main Lothian fleet have also slipped..

I do believe Lothian has given up Kirkliston and Winchburgh areas, its funny the public of Craighill all demanded a direct but to Edinburgh so First put in X23 and Lothian the X17.. Where are they now?

I do believe anyone else could have done a better job, I think the current changes are to just keep the drivers busy until there are able to transfer them into the mani lothian operations.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

This is about being Pro first or Anti Lothian

Do you mean it ISN'T about being pro or anti any firm??

 

[overthewater]

Do you mean it ISN'T about being pro or anti any firm??

Yes

I still believe lothain could have created a nice network for its selfs.

 

[2Fat2Furious]

Been watching this thread for a while (14 months i think?) , now feel like its time to speak up. It's my first post, so please don't be to harsh for me.

Seeing changes announced today I am more than positive than Lothian Contry is very confident about its success in West Lothian and now only wants to put the last nail to the First coffin simply "suffocating" them from passengers by driving few minutes ahead on LITERALLY every route. Example: 281 . It's obvious it will be scheduled 2-3 minutes before 26 from Fauldhouse. It's the last significant bit of viable corridors where First was still running without any pressure. Go look on services 21, 23, 25, 27 - all dead now, empty Streetlites following occupied green deckers. Facts.
All regular timatebles updates in last year are consistent in puting LC vehicles in front of those of FSE. Strategy simple as that and you don't need any fancy ideas, only need to be patient.
Night service? First cannot even dream now about demand for it
Prove me wrong, but in my opinion LC has already gathered too significant piece of West Lothian cake to loose it at the end. Reinstating x38 and ex2 is only case of time.
Congratulations Lothian Country! Job well done!

 

[Jordan Adam]

These changes do make much more sense. X17 not returning is wise (i've said from day 1 Fauldhouse don't need an Edinburgh bus link). 280 reducing is a bit suspect however the 281 is wise as it fills one of the existing gaps in the network and will increase the frequency on the Livingston - Bathgate Corridor (although i doubt any Fauldhouse passenger would use the 281 to Livingston over the 26, hence why i think the 276 should be extended back). I'm surprised the 275 isn't going back to full route though, even if it was on a reduced basis.

The Livingston - Bathgate corridor increases to the same level of frequency as First while the Edinburgh - Broxburn/Uphall corridor sees a reduction to half the level of service offered by First (1/4th the level between Edinburgh and Newbridge).

 

[PaulMc7]

The thing I've always noticed in West Lothian is the service numbers for First are far more memorable and less random than Lothians.

Only the X38 and 600 differ from First's pattern of 20 something's whereas with Lothian it seems to be sets of 2 plus the 43. Obviously with the X17 remembering the X18 stands out on it's own now too

 

[Jordan Adam]

The thing I've always noticed in West Lothian is the service numbers for First are far more memorable and less random than Lothians.

Only the X38 and 600 differ from First's pattern of 20 something's whereas with Lothian it seems to be sets of 2 plus the 43. Obviously with the X17 remembering the X18 stands out on it's own now too

A few people have already mistaken the 281 as the 287 coming back!

 

[PaulMc7]

A few people have already mistaken the 281 as the 287 coming back!

Can't say I'm surprised by that to be honest. They're not easy numbers to remember unless you're a very regular user of a service or know the area inside out

 

[JurassicMan]

A few people have already mistaken the 281 as the 287 coming back!

The 281 is "coming back" it ran from Deans to Loganlea not so long ago. Now same number different route just for a bit of confusion

 

[Bus9120UK]

The 281 is "coming back" it ran from Deans to Loganlea not so long ago. Now same number different route just for a bit of confusion

I think he meant that he has seen a lot of people thinking that the 287 is coming back instead of the 281, not that we are mistaking the fact that the 281 is coming back.

 

[route101]

The thing I've always noticed in West Lothian is the service numbers for First are far more memorable and less random than Lothians.

Only the X38 and 600 differ from First's pattern of 20 something's whereas with Lothian it seems to be sets of 2 plus the 43. Obviously with the X17 remembering the X18 stands out on it's own now too

The First numbers changed a few years ago and that confused me.

 

[2Fat2Furious]

The First numbers changed a few years ago and that confused me.

Me too! Suddenly 27 became some Livi circular, 28 was gone and 21 with 22 didn't bother to go past Livingston. Appreciate that Lothian Country brought back X27 and x28 so quickly, so you knew where you go.