Fastest Accelerating MUs in the UK

[Kneedown]

If 113 is serviceable, why did it not replace 111 with two dodgy transmissions?

It's in the shed having some work done. Been there all week.

 

[Railperf]

It's in the shed having some work done. Been there all week.

Interesting stuff. Can we move the relevant parts of this to the EMR 180 thread? We'll add to this thread once we obtain some healthy Class 180 performance stats.

 

[Juniper Driver]

The new Class 710s on the Overground certainly feel more nippy than the 378s

707's similar. Not sure how they compare to overhead stock, though.

 

[yorkie]

Interesting stuff. Can we move the relevant parts of this to the EMR 180 thread? We'll add to this thread once we obtain some healthy Class 180 performance stats.

If anyone would like to suggest we move posts into an existing or new thread, please click the report button on the first post that is proposed to be moved; in your report please include details of any subsequent posts (providing the post numbers would be really helpful!). It would be great also if either a suggested thread title (for a new thread) or the URL of an existing thread can be provided so that it is easy for us to understand what is proposed to do with the posts.

Many thanks

 

[Railperf]

I think it is easy to forget that foreign OLE systems have are powerful enough to cope with the high power demands of their rolling stock. Even now the ECML cannot cope with the amount of electrical demand _ hence lots of diesel running under the wires still.

 

[delticdave]

I think it is easy to forget that foreign OLE systems have are powerful enough to cope with the high power demands of their rolling stock. Even now the ECML cannot cope with the amount of electrical demand _ hence lots of diesel running under the wires still.

Maybe because DB still use 15kV AC at 16.67 Hz they have always built & owned their own distribution network.(Plus their own dedicated power stations?)
A new example would be the new electrification to Lindau, much of which is single track, using very tall catenary masts with 2 extra power lines way above the catenary. I've no idea of the voltage but the insulators are quite big.....
Lindau Hbf / Insel station has been part electrified for many years, but it's fed from Austria. (AFAIK)
(If anyone is interested in the above, Youtube has many videos of the project & the new trains.)

 

[gingertom]

I'd like to see a 755/3 "accidentally" have a power pack from a /4 fitted. Mind you, I have problems with my back and the G forces from such a pairing might not do me any good.

 

[Railperf]

I'd like to see a 755/3 "accidentally" have a power pack from a /4 fitted. Mind you, I have problems with my back and the G forces from such a pairing might not do me any good.

G-forces would be lower than electric mode - which itself is not back pain inducing in any way.

 

[bb21]

Fast cars discussion split here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/fast-cars.212510/

 

[tetudo boy]

Class 350's literally zoom out of a station! I was honestly impressed.

 

[AverageTD]

Class 350's literally zoom out of a station! I was honestly impressed.

Given they're going on 20 years, 350s still take off incredibly quickly. But then again you have to if you want to make use of the WCML paths.

 

[Railperf]

Given they're going on 20 years, 350s still take off incredibly quickly. But then again you have to if you want to make use of the WCML paths.

Yes - virtually the same as 360's - 0-60mph in appx 46 seconds and 100mph in 2 min 20.
Class 221 Voyagers were similar - a bit slower off the mark 54-55 seconds to 60mph, but faster at the top end - 2 mins 20 seconds to 100mph - so slower 0 to 60mph than a Class 755/4 , but faster to 100mph.

 

[ChristopherJ]

A Class 345 or Class 710 with the power handle shoved to 100% from stationary will guarantee you some neck whiplash, made worse by sitting sideways in longitudinal seating.

I was told by a Bombardier technician the TfL Aventras had to be software rate limited for fear of throwing passengers out of the seats / to the floor for this very reason.

 

[AM9]

A Class 345 or Class 710 with the power handle shoved to 100% from stationary will guarantee you some neck whiplash, made worse by sitting sideways in longitudinal seating.

I was told by a Bombardier technician the TfL Aventras had to be software rate limited for fear of throwing passengers out of the seats / to the floor for this very reason.

All this talk of earlier Desiros and Aventras, where do the class 700s sit in the league table? On the ac MML, they have the task of slipping in between Voyagers, and with 5MW of motor drive for 410 tonnes, (class 700/1) and better than 50% adhesive weight, they must be somewhere near the top of the league table.

 

[grumpyoldman01]

Aren't the 395s scheduled for 125mph but able to go at 140 to make up time?

I'm pretty sure that you're right on this - or certainly it was the case.

In June 2014, my wife and I made a return trip between St Pancras and Canterbury, and on the way back our train was delayed at Ashford; there was a PA announcement which apologised for the delay, said it was due to the late running of a Eurostar which our Javelin was due to follow, and then added that arrival at St Pancras was expected to be on time as the train would be running faster than scheduled for its journey to London. I had a Blackberry phone at the time, switched it to the map setting, and it showed speeds of very high 130s with occasional steps to 141 most of the way between Ashford and Ebbsfleet

I think the phone was reasonably accurate; I remember it reading a steady 90 for mile after mile on one trip I made, but it did get up to 128 on a XC HST heading north just after Tamworth one night!

 

[SolomonSouth]

Anyone know the fastest DC unit?
My contenders would be the 465/9 (a video of it accelerating to top speed here):

Note this unit was said to "not be a good example" so may be about 2-3mph slower than the other units. And note "Hitachi'd" 465/0s and 465/1s are much slower to accelerate and are extremely sluggish past 20mph.
and also the 378 (a video of it accelerating here to 60mph, downhill though):

Plus maybe the 710/707 could have a say - a friend told me the 707 was 30 secs approx to 45mph, and the 710 being slightly better than a 378 suggests around 30 secs to 45 as well.
Not sure of figures for 1996 stock/S stock - could anyone provide any figures to 60mph?

 

[AverageTD]

Anyone know the fastest DC unit?
My contenders would be the 465/9 (a video of it accelerating to top speed here):

Note this unit was said to "not be a good example" so may be about 2-3mph slower than the other units. And note "Hitachi'd" 465/0s and 465/1s are much slower to accelerate and are extremely sluggish past 20mph.
and also the 378 (a video of it accelerating here to 60mph, downhill though):

Plus maybe the 710/707 could have a say - a friend told me the 707 was 30 secs approx to 45mph, and the 710 being slightly better than a 378 suggests around 30 secs to 45 as well.
Not sure of figures for 1996 stock/S stock - could anyone provide any figures to 60mph?

The 465s certainly do take off well for their age, but I doubt they'd worry any more modern EMU. My money's on the 707s who frequently find themselves spending a bit more time at stops running to older timetables. I'm not sure how quick the 1996s are but including tube stock then I think the 2009 stock would be most likely candidate for fastest accelerating given the harshness of the service pattern on the Vic. DLR stock also get away very quickly but they're not going to touch much more that 40-45mph.

 

[Milo T.K]

465s take off really fast from my perspective I think the methamphetamine ones can do 1.05m/s

The 465s certainly do take off well for their age, but I doubt they'd worry any more modern EMU. My money's on the 707s who frequently find themselves spending a bit more time at stops running to older timetables. I'm not sure how quick the 1996s are but including tube stock then I think the 2009 stock would be most likely candidate for fastest accelerating given the harshness of the service pattern on the Vic. DLR stock also get away very quickly but they're not going to touch much more that 40-45mph.

Interesting enough the 96ts power is limited and is faster than the 2009ts when on full

 

[AverageTD]

465s take off really fast from my perspective I think the methamphetamine ones can do 1.05m/s

Interesting enough the 96ts power is limited and is faster than the 2009ts when on full

Surprised by both facts really! 465 could very much be train dependent then. As for 2009 stock, I think they do 1.1ms^2 in regular service meaning that 96TS must be close to the 755/3s on full?

 

[hexagon789]

Anyone know the fastest DC unit?
My contenders would be the 465/9 (a video of it accelerating to top speed here):

Note this unit was said to "not be a good example" so may be about 2-3mph slower than the other units. And note "Hitachi'd" 465/0s and 465/1s are much slower to accelerate and are extremely sluggish past 20mph.
and also the 378 (a video of it accelerating here to 60mph, downhill though):

Plus maybe the 710/707 could have a say - a friend told me the 707 was 30 secs approx to 45mph, and the 710 being slightly better than a 378 suggests around 30 secs to 45 as well.
Not sure of figures for 1996 stock/S stock - could anyone provide any figures to 60mph?

I know the 375 was one of the fastest DC units - 70 secs to 60mph. Not sure on 70x units.

 

[king_walnut]

Anyone know the fastest DC unit?
My contenders would be the 465/9 (a video of it accelerating to top speed here)

I don't have any specific timings but I drive 313s every day and they get to 60mph way quicker than that.

 

[DustyBin]

The 465s certainly do take off well for their age, but I doubt they'd worry any more modern EMU. My money's on the 707s who frequently find themselves spending a bit more time at stops running to older timetables. I'm not sure how quick the 1996s are but including tube stock then I think the 2009 stock would be most likely candidate for fastest accelerating given the harshness of the service pattern on the Vic. DLR stock also get away very quickly but they're not going to touch much more that 40-45mph.

Is the 1996 stock quicker than the 1995 stock? The latter has a more modern control system (1996 stock utilises GTO thyristor technology), that’s the only reason I ask.

The Class 777 must be a good shout for the fastest DC unit?

 

[Mikey C]

Is the 1996 stock quicker than the 1995 stock? The latter has a more modern control system (1996 stock utilises GTO thyristor technology), that’s the only reason I ask.

The Class 777 must be a good shout for the fastest DC unit?

I imagine Underground speeds are very line dependant, the Jubilee Line benefiting from more modern sections

We need some open, track to do a proper drag race

 

[DustyBin]

I imagine Underground speeds are very line dependant, the Jubilee Line benefiting from more modern sections

We need some open, track to do a proper drag race

Agreed, all in the name of research of course. The 1996 stock wins on sound effects though.

 

[pompeyfan]

There’s a handful of 444 units that are allowed to pull ~90% power from the third rail and they’re noticeably quicker. I believe there may be 1 or 2 450s that can pull 100% and they must fly

 

[southern442]

I can't get the full post editor to work but I'll put up a link for a video of a 777 on test, and it shoots out of the station, this plus the track record of stadler makes me think these will be up there certainly.

EDIT: here it is

 

[bramling]

Is the 1996 stock quicker than the 1995 stock? The latter has a more modern control system (1996 stock utilises GTO thyristor technology), that’s the only reason I ask.

The Class 777 must be a good shout for the fastest DC unit?

95 stock definitely has an edge over 96 stock.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Class 374 (eurostar) is a clear winner. (but it isn't exactly british)

I don't think there are any new EMUs with British traction packages.
The last would be the Alstom Pendolino, and maybe the Juniper group (458/460/334), using ex-GEC/EE Preston kit, also used in Eurostar 373.
At some point the Derby EMU output began to use Swedish (ex-ABB) kit.
The CAF and Stadler EMUs use a TSA (Vienna) traction package (also with ABB origins).
Hitachi use their own Japanese kit (although 80x have some TSA power components).

 

[SolomonSouth]

Surprised by both facts really! 465 could very much be train dependent then. As for 2009 stock, I think they do 1.1ms^2 in regular service meaning that 96TS must be close to the 755/3s on full?

Yeah, the /9s are much better than /0 or /1 BREL units

465s take off really fast from my perspective I think the methamphetamine ones can do 1.05m/s

Interesting enough the 96ts power is limited and is faster than the 2009ts when on full

The metcam ones are def about 1 m/s, BRELs are inferior tho especially at high speed

To be honest I think 375s are inferior to 465/9s and 378s + 707s, and the like. Anyone got a figure for a 450/SWT retracioned 455? They both seem fairly quick

 

[Impey0711]

S stock on the metropolitan line are pretty quick off the mark given being a tube train