Entire 800/801/802 fleet stood down for safety checks

[DanNCL]

But still has lner calling there every 2 hours and Chester le Street has hourly busses running, as I said yesterday, not ideal but at least they are getting people moving to the nearest stations of Durham and Newcastle where there tickets will then be accepted on Lner and Cross Country.

Not every decision the TOCs make will please everyone, but they are doing the absolute best they can with the deck of cards dealt to them

LNER have their own problems, and good luck getting a reservation on them. Also good luck getting a replacement bus anywhere near Chester-le-Street station, the car park is currently a works compound.

 

[800001]

LNER have their own problems, and good luck getting a reservation on them. Also good luck getting a replacement bus anywhere near Chester-le-Street station, the car park is currently a works compound.p

LNER have their own problems, and good luck getting a reservation on them. Also good luck getting a replacement bus anywhere near Chester-le-Street station, the car park is currently a works compound.

Plenty of reservations available on lner, alternatively sit in coach C which is unreservable. And regardless of what the car park is like, there is still an hour bus provided each way to Durham or Newcastle, where that picks up from who knows.

 

[Ianno87]

LNER have their own problems, and good luck getting a reservation on them.

By all accounts, trains aren't busy enough for this to be a problem.

 

[Lemmy99uk]

But Watch out for the apostrophe police.

And the capitalisation cops

 

[rg177]

Plenty of reservations available on lner, alternatively sit in coach C which is unreservable. And regardless of what the car park is like, there is still an hour bus provided each way to Durham or Newcastle, where that picks up from who knows.

Yes I booked the 1233 Edinburgh-Newcastle TPE last night, seemingly before they were able to pull them with the advent of the amended timetable.

Plenty of space on the 1300 LNER, even with the 1130, 1200 and 1230 all cancelled.

 

[geoffk]

Which is of course not what we would consider acceptable in the UK, and for good reason.

Why is it acceptable in Belgium? It's not exactly a "developing country".

 

[Ediswan]

I've received this message from a few people with no connection to GWR or ASLEF (I've removed the name and job title)
7000 grade aluminium which requires highly specialist welding to the point it will have to be overseen by The Welding Institute (TWI),

7000 is a series of aluminium alloys. Some are suitable for welding. Others are prone to subsequent cracking if welded.

 

[robbeech]

Why is it acceptable in Belgium? It's not exactly a "developing country".

I didn't really comment on whether it was acceptable in Belgium or not, and certainly didn't attempt to suggest why it might be. I merely stated that it isn't acceptable here. I suspect it is entirely possible that it isn't acceptable there either and there was a miscommunication, or a little artistic license by the member of staff, or the poster here, or both.

 

[ashkeba]

Why is it acceptable in Belgium? It's not exactly a "developing country".

Do trains in Belgium have standard cab layout and equipment? It is not very big and has a different history.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do trains in Belgium have standard cab layout and equipment? It is not very big and has a different history.

As a slight aside, some European countries don't have route knowledge in the same way either - Germany uses the "Buchfahrplan", originally a paper ring-bound book that the driver would refer to and turn pages as they went, giving details of things like speed limits, signals, junctions etc, but these days electronic.

 

[37057]

A bogie drop isn't a lot of use for changing a power pack or cooler group or inverter module or transformer or any of the other equipment that requires a vehicle to be lifted.....

Some bogie drops are actually ideal for that type of work.

 

[SuperNova]

Why on earth would rail North not approve the loan of a few trains when entire parts of the country are going to be without a service for months on end? This goes way above pointless bodies such as Rail North. Heaven forbid Manchester to York may need to go half hourly or whatever.
Gwr need something and they need it now, 802s or otherwise.

1) There's already significantly less services north of York due to LNER's issues
2) Have you seen the amended timetable? Stations being left with a rail replacement bus service.
3) Manchester to York is already every 30 mins and won't change.
4) Rail North's concern is services in the north of England. To allow even 3 802s to leave would require a complete timetable to be redrawn with potentially 185s used on the ECML (timetabled at 100mph compared to 125 for the 802s), and there's also competency issues with that.

 

[geoffk]

Looking at RTT for Swindon today, I see there is an hourly GWR service to/from Paddington, according to RTT “pathed as electric multiple unit”, which must mean 387s. Also a roughly hourly XC service to/from Bristol TM, with some extended to/from Plymouth/Paignton. Presumably Voyagers are passed to Swindon as part of a diversionary route but do XC drivers have the route knowledge or are they taking a GWR pilot? And is there a GWR staff member on board the train? Good to see train companies working together (which they should be doing in normal times!).

 

[irish_rail]

1) There's already significantly less services north of York due to LNER's issues
2) Have you seen the amended timetable? Stations being left with a rail replacement bus service.
3) Manchester to York is already every 30 mins and won't change.
4) Rail North's concern is services in the north of England. To allow even 3 802s to leave would require a complete timetable to be redrawn with potentially 185s used on the ECML (timetabled at 100mph compared to 125 for the 802s), and there's also competency issues with that.

Yes but this is a national emergency. Just had to hve a Frank conversation with my disabled next door neighbour who is booked up to London next week. Currently no services from the entire South West to London, surely that is a trifle more important than a few sparsely populated stations losing their service for a period.
The priority should be the greater good,not take an "im alright Jack" mentality.

 

[800001]

1) There's already significantly less services north of York due to LNER's issues
2) Have you seen the amended timetable? Stations being left with a rail replacement bus service.
3) Manchester to York is already every 30 mins and won't change.
4) Rail North's concern is services in the north of England. To allow even 3 802s to leave would require a complete timetable to be redrawn with potentially 185s used on the ECML (timetabled at 100mph compared to 125 for the 802s), and there's also competency issues with that.

5 less lners in each direction north of York, hardly call that significantly less

 

[Watershed]

To allow even 3 802s to leave would require a complete timetable to be redrawn with potentially 185s used on the ECML (timetabled at 100mph compared to 125 for the 802s), and there's also competency issues with that.

If you are just running Liverpool-York, as now, you can do entirely without 802s. There are certain costs associated with that - 185 training runs would have to cease and there would be 2 diagrams shortformed (or more diagrams shortformed if you wanted to continue training). But that's about it.

It would be far from an ideal situation in the long term (particularly since 802 traction knowledge would begin to lapse), but in the big picture, it's a much less serious problem than what GWR currently face.

Currently no services from the entire South West to London, surely that is a trifle more important than a few sparsely populated stations losing their service for a period.

No direct services. You can still get to London in one change (Birmingham). I hope you're not seriously suggesting that the intermediate stations between York and Liverpool are sparsely populated? They're certainly a lot more populated than the SW is on average, if that's your point of comparison.

The priority should be the greater good,not take an "im alright Jack" mentality.

You can't exactly expect Rail North to say "yes, no problem, we'll give GWR all our 802s, no questions". They are accountable to local politicians and thus local people, who will in many cases have the "I'm alright Jack" mentality. Can you blame them?

That said, there has been a concerted industry-wide effort to help out, so it's quite possible that there will be some 802s transferred across temporarily.

 

[73128]

Looking at RTT for Swindon today, I see there is an hourly GWR service to/from Paddington, according to RTT “pathed as electric multiple unit”, which must mean 387s. Also a roughly hourly XC service to/from Bristol TM, with some extended to/from Plymouth/Paignton. Presumably Voyagers are passed to Swindon as part of a diversionary route but do XC drivers have the route knowledge or are they taking a GWR pilot? And is there a GWR staff member on board the train? Good to see train companies working together (which they should be doing in normal times!).

It is a 12 class 387s shuttle, 3 diagrams. XC drivers often go that way reversing at Swindon for Golden Valley (or occasionally via Didcot west curve) when there are engineering works around Bristol Parkway. Bath calls were not unusual, Chippenham less so.

 

[Beebman]

Japanese TV news report today from KGX:

 

[HSP 2]

Plan:
Currently running 87% of trains,
Only station unserved is Pewsey,
Helped by other TOC’s:
CrossCountry – additional trains Bristol – Swindon,
Chiltern – additional trains Oxford – Marylebone,
SWR – additional trains Exeter – Waterloo,
TfW – additional trains Cardiff – Swansea,
From Tuesday looking at extending 387’s from Didcot to Swindon by use of guard,
Possibility of increase in 2+4’s on Cardiff – Swansea and Exeter – Penzance services,
Turbo’s being used on Cotswold and Bedwyn services,
Units on Swindon – Gloucester,
Have had some offers of help from outside parties, but most unfeasible. Possibility of using ‘spare’ TPE 800’s, but issues with no ATP, and the TMS would not be aligned for use on GWR services,
Involvement of reps to continue,

Colleagues:
Working to home spare/white space agreement, but issues because work is coming from control rather than resources,
More structured workings and diagrams expected later in the week.

Further calls between the GWR Exec and TU FTO’s to be arranged going forward. TU’s asked for total transparency and clear detailed communication to be put out to reassure colleagues.

Feel free to cascade this information out to your local reps, etc, as I know there will be a lot of people seeking reassurance/answers.

Yours fraternally
XXXXX
XXXXX
ASLEF | 77 St John St | Farringdon | EC1M 4NN

I think that this could be more like why the TPE 800s won't go down to the GWR, in my bold.

 

[Brissle Girl]

1Pxx and 1Axx services starting to appear in RTT running from Swindon to Paddington tomorrow timed as EMUs. Are these the 387s?

Presumably Voyagers are passed to Swindon as part of a diversionary route but do XC drivers have the route knowledge or are they taking a GWR pilot? And is there a GWR staff member on board the train? Good to see train companies working together (which they should be doing in normal times!).

As previously noted, this is a not that unusual diversionary route, so route knowledge doesn't appear to be an issue. Also both GWR and XC state that the trains are crewed by XC staff, so I would assume there are no GWR staff on board.

As to seeing TOCs working together, you can bet that DfT has made it very clear that they have to. After all, it holds all the purse-strings these days, so no doubt it will have told them to concentrate on implementing any support arrangements and worry about the financial implications down the line.

 

[74A]

Not sure if there is any truth?

Quality Test Fraud Found at Hitachi Metals

Tokyo, April 28 (Jiji Press)--Hitachi Metals Ltd. has been found to have falsified quality test results…

www.nippon.com

That article is from April 2020 and mainly concerns steel. Not to say there couldnt be a connection.

 

[irish_rail]

If you are just running Liverpool-York, as now, you can do entirely without 802s. There are certain costs associated with that - 185 training runs would have to cease and there would be 2 diagrams shortformed (or more diagrams shortformed if you wanted to continue training). But that's about it.

It would be far from an ideal situation in the long term (particularly since 802 traction knowledge would begin to lapse), but in the big picture, it's a much less serious problem than what GWR currently face.


No direct services. You can still get to London in one change (Birmingham). I hope you're not seriously suggesting that the intermediate stations between York and Liverpool are sparsely populated? They're certainly a lot more populated than the SW is on average, if that's your point of comparison.


You can't exactly expect Rail North to say "yes, no problem, we'll give GWR all our 802s, no questions". They are accountable to local politicians and thus local people, who will in many cases have the "I'm alright Jack" mentality. Can you blame them?

That said, there has been a concerted industry-wide effort to help out, so it's quite possible that there will be some 802s transferred across temporarily.

Plymouth to London via Birmingham. Crikey. 3 and a half hours to Birmingham. 20 minutes at New St then hour or so to Euston. Thats nearly 5 hours. And my point is people with reserved seats, ie disabled, lose them. So my neighbour for example is cancelling his trip as he cannot guarantee a seat on a train now.

I'm not asking Rail North to give up its entire 802 fleet but where they to spare 3 or 4 then a Plymouth to Reading shuttle could perhaps run every couple of hours or so.

 

[Watershed]

Plymouth to London via Birmingham. Crikey. 3 and a half hours to Birmingham. 20 minutes at New St then hour or so to Euston. Thats nearly 5 hours. And my point is people with reserved seats, ie disabled, lose them. So my neighbour for example is cancelling his trip as he cannot guarantee a seat on a train now.

I'm not asking Rail North to give up its entire 802 fleet but where they to spare 3 or 4 then a Plymouth to Reading shuttle could perhaps run every couple of hours or so.

Nearly 5 hours, i.e. about 1.5 hours longer than normal. Personally, if I were making the journey that's probably how I'd do it right now.

XC and Avanti both have reservations available up to 10 mins before departure, so you can reserve again - don't see any issue there.

Something around 3 sets is probably what it will end up being, but that's not enough for a 2 hourly Plymouth to Reading shuttle, so a 2 hourly Newton Abbot or Exeter to Reading shuttle would seem more likely.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Nearly 5 hours, i.e. about 1.5 hours longer than normal. Personally, if I were making the journey that's probably how I'd do it right now.

XC and Avanti both have reservations available up to 10 mins before departure, so you can reserve again - don't see any issue there.

Something around 3 sets is probably what it will end up being, but that's not enough for a 2 hourly Plymouth to Reading shuttle, so a 2 hourly Newton Abbot or Exeter to Reading shuttle would seem more likely.

Don’t forget from next Monday Exeter to Waterloo reverts to hourly

 

[24Grange]

"The North" always seems to be more important in perception than the southwest, ( west of Bristol) for whatever reason.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Looking at RTT for Swindon today, I see there is an hourly GWR service to/from Paddington, according to RTT “pathed as electric multiple unit”, which must mean 387s. Also a roughly hourly XC service to/from Bristol TM, with some extended to/from Plymouth/Paignton. Presumably Voyagers are passed to Swindon as part of a diversionary route but do XC drivers have the route knowledge or are they taking a GWR pilot? And is there a GWR staff member on board the train? Good to see train companies working together (which they should be doing in normal times!).

The Bristol to Swindon trains are entirely XC services, XC trains, XC crews no GWR involvement at all.

 

[edwin_m]

A bogie drop isn't a lot of use for changing a power pack or cooler group or inverter module or transformer or any of the other equipment that requires a vehicle to be lifted.....

Some bogie drops are actually ideal for that type of work.

I've only been a little involved in one such project so can't claim to be an expert, but on that one there was scope to put different attachments on the top of the bogie drop that included cradles for various items of underfloor equipment.

Plymouth to London via Birmingham. Crikey. 3 and a half hours to Birmingham. 20 minutes at New St then hour or so to Euston. Thats nearly 5 hours. And my point is people with reserved seats, ie disabled, lose them. So my neighbour for example is cancelling his trip as he cannot guarantee a seat on a train now.

I'm not asking Rail North to give up its entire 802 fleet but where they to spare 3 or 4 then a Plymouth to Reading shuttle could perhaps run every couple of hours or so.

It should be possible with one change at Exeter, where someone upthread mentioned SWR are now providing extra services. It's also possible with changes at Bristol and Swindon once the 387 shuttles start.

If TPE is to be forced to hand over units, then LNER would be the best recipient as the could remain at the same home depots. But someone mentioned TPE also have units stopped for the same problem, and as they've probably all done similar mileage it's likely that others will have to be stopped soon. There is probably space at Newton Aycliffe, so TPE (as well as LNER) units could be modified there instead of on depot, as long as someone hasn't sent them to the other end of the country meanwhile.

 

[williamn]

"The North" always seems to be more important in perception than the southwest, ( west of Bristol) for whatever reason.

Massively greater population?

 

[Bikeman78]

Which is of course not what we would consider acceptable in the UK, and for good reason.

This was years ago but it made me chuckle. Didn't feel in any danger at any point. He seemed to know what he was doing as well as holding a conversation with me in near perfect English. He was impressed with my route knowledge when we caught up a freight and I suggested the signaller would probably put it in the loop at Schellebelle. That's exactly what did happen.

 

[24Grange]

I think it is that - yes, but also historical hangover." The north" has all the heavy industry, whereas the southwest is "just" a holiday destination.