ERTMS Live and working

[ERTMS DRIVER]

ERTMS is live and working from Thursday 28/10/10. Its now running trains between Harlech and Pwllheli for all trains. Trains that are not ERTMS fitted are not allowed past Barmouth.
So far there have been very few problems that I have beentold of.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Phew!
Its been a long time getting there, but I'm delighted to hear that its fully operational.

Thanks for letting us know, ERTMS DRIVER. Hope you can keep us informed of developments and any operational "surprises" that might still crop up.

 

[Gareth Marston]

ERTMS Driver is correct that's my feedback from Machynlleth depot also.

 

[YorkshireBear]

good to hear

 

[Neilandrewhall]

what is this bout?

 

[Techniquest]

Good to hear this experimental new signalling system is finally live! I wondered why the UKRailtours' tour in January is to only go as far as Barmouth, now it makes sense.

How long until we get tours up to Pwllheli with 97/3s I wonder...

 

[jopsuk]

Neilandrewhall- it's about 21st century signalling making its appearance in revenue-earning operation on the UK main rail network. The Cambrian is the pilot for the ETCS Level 2 in-cab signalling technology in this country- the rest, for now, is only getting the other part of ERTMS in the form of GSM-R cab radios. It does, however, mean that for now the only stock allowed on the line are the equipped trains- currently Arriva 158s and Network Rail Class 97s (ex 37s). I believe there's work being done to produce portable equipment for charter train use?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

what is this bout?

All you'll want to know is already on here!
Discussion, links and opinions on this thread : http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=23667

 

[ERTMS DRIVER]

The system is working better than expected. The 158's are running better in ERTMS level 2 than 0. My contact on the Cambrian says the staff on the hole are finding it good but there are a few who think it is a step backwards and hate the thought of it.

I have also been told that the ERTMS ATW drivers have been issued with new dark navy shirts due to white reflecting in the screen. If you are on the Cambrain or at Sherwsbury and see an ATW staff member in the dark shirt he will be a Machynlleth driver as they are the only ones to be issued with these shirts.

I will try to keep you all upto date with the devlopments as they happen and i get the info.

 

[Chris125]

I believe there's work being done to produce portable equipment for charter train use?

You cant have 'portable' ERTMS as far as im aware - for one thing the equipment box is the size of a fridge with a healthy apetite for electricity! There are options being explored to allow the Cambriam steam trips however.

Chris

 

[TDK]

Neilandrewhall- it's about 21st century signalling making its appearance in revenue-earning operation on the UK main rail network. The Cambrian is the pilot for the ETCS Level 2 in-cab signalling technology in this country- the rest, for now, is only getting the other part of ERTMS in the form of GSM-R cab radios. It does, however, mean that for now the only stock allowed on the line are the equipped trains- currently Arriva 158s and Network Rail Class 97s (ex 37s). I believe there's work being done to produce portable equipment for charter train use?

GSM-R radios are not a part of ERTMS, they are required where new axle counter instalations are. Do you have tohave GSM-R in an ERTMS working area?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The system is working better than expected. The 158's are running better in ERTMS level 2 than 0. My contact on the Cambrian says the staff on the hole are finding it good but there are a few who think it is a step backwards and hate the thought of it.

I have also been told that the ERTMS ATW drivers have been issued with new dark navy shirts due to white reflecting in the screen. If you are on the Cambrain or at Sherwsbury and see an ATW staff member in the dark shirt he will be a Machynlleth driver as they are the only ones to be issued with these shirts.

I will try to keep you all upto date with the devlopments as they happen and i get the info.

Crewe drivers sign or used to sign the route from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth,willthey not have or get the blue shirts?

 

[Railsigns]

GSM-R radios are not a part of ERTMS

Yes they are.

ERTMS = GSM-R + ETCS

ETCS is the signalling element of ERTMS.

they are required where new axle counter instalations are.

That is just one situation where GSM-R is used.

Do you have tohave GSM-R in an ERTMS working area?

Absolutely yes.

 

[ERTMS DRIVER]

The only drivers to work over the Cambrain are Machynlleth and Pwllheli depots. All the other depots had the route taken off them a bout a year a go.

My contact says that the rest of the Cambrain from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth and Harlech is due to go ERTMS level 2 live in January 2011.

I will try to keep you updated as I am told.

 

[The Planner]

Id be suprised if it was January, Id expect it to be done in the Feb half-term.

 

[swt_passenger]

You cant have 'portable' ERTMS as far as im aware - for one thing the equipment box is the size of a fridge with a healthy apetite for electricity! There are options being explored to allow the Cambriam steam trips however.

Chris

Maybe it can be built into a second tender...

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Maybe it can be built into a second tender...

That's almost exactly what they're trying to do actually! According to a recent issue or two of Steam Railway the idea is to mount the equipment in the support carriage and link it through somehow.

 

[TDK]

Yes they are.

ERTMS = GSM-R + ETCS

ETCS is the signalling element of ERTMS.


That is just one situation where GSM-R is used.


Absolutely yes.

Yes they are required but the post was suggeting they were designed for ERTMS, in fact they are for the whole network eventually but are compulsory where there are new axle counter instalations and ertms

 

[jopsuk]

GSM-R radios are not a part of ERTMS

The official website disagrees with you

ERTMS has two basic components:
ETCS, the European Train Control System, is an automatic train protection system (ATP) to replace the existing national ATP-systems;
GSM-R, a radio system for providing voice and data communication between the track and the train, based on standard GSM using frequencies specifically reserved for rail application with certain specific and advanced functions. For more information on GSM-R, please visit: http://gsm-r.uic.asso.fr/

 

[68000]

GSM-R voice and data forms part of ERTMS. GSM-R voice on its own does not.

The rollout of GSM-R voice has already started with all of the CSR area in Scotland on GSM-R (the trial), Airdrie to Edingburgh via Bathgate, WCML between London and Stoke and the ELL. The next bit to roll out will be the ECML between London and Stoke tunnel in early 2011.

http://www.gsmronline.com/

 

[ERTMS DRIVER]

The first stage of the full removal of the RETB starts on Sunday. At Porthmadoc with the gas points being replaced with clamp locks oparated by Machynlleth RBC and not the passage of the trains, This will mean that the RETB is not going to be used again. The RETB equipment has been left in place so if ERTMS had big problems it could be put back in service untill they were sorted out.

 

[brianthegiant]

on the subject of GSM rail....are the masts shared with public GSM/other mobile signals? sure I noticed an improvement in signal on the cambrian after the masts went up, but gone bad again recently..

 

[Beveridges]

What is holding back the implementation for the rest of the system?
Also are the WAG going to give ATW the fund the hourly service now, or wait until the full system is in place?

 

[68000]

on the subject of GSM rail....are the masts shared with public GSM/other mobile signals?

No, that would impinge the permitted development rights of Network Rail

 

[brianthegiant]

No, that would impinge the permitted development rights of Network Rail

ah I see, so if the masts were to be used by commercial telecoms operators that would require additional planning permission application to be made by NR & mobile operator.

 

[68000]

Correct and if Network Rail had to do that, there would be objections galore lodged and may well jeopordise the whole GSM-R programme.

 

[Respite]

I trained on ERTMS when I was still driving for ATW & it is a horrible system to work with in level 2. Hard to describe exactly why, but it makes you focus too much on a VDU rather than whats actually happening out on the track. Hated it in a big way. It's another shoddy signalling system like axle counters are. Cheap, prone to major failures & not wanted at all. Sorry to sound negative but thats just how we feel.
On GSM-R though as I use it everday with VT, fantastic system. After years of suffering from the poor NRN radios it's really good to be able to actually hear people on the end of the phone. It does seem prone to locking up a bit though as I have to resort to my IVRS (Yellow brick phone) a little bit.

 

[merlodlliw]

What is holding back the implementation for the rest of the system?
Also are the WAG going to give ATW the fund the hourly service now, or wait until the full system is in place?

It will become clear next Wednesday,when the spending cuts are announced, don't hold your breath for the hourly service anymore.
all future/present rail services & infrastructure paid for by WAG have had a very in depth inspection for the statement.
I understand a lot of Ieuan Jones colleagues & cronies are not happy.

 

[68000]

It does seem prone to locking up a bit though as I have to resort to my IVRS (Yellow brick phone) a little bit.

VT are an early adopter of the GSM-R system (with ScotRail the trialist) and there are a few bugs still to iron out. I believe VT are not running with the latest cab radio software although I am not sure that is the problem you experience.

 

[Gareth Marston]

It will become clear next Wednesday,when the spending cuts are announced, don't hold your breath for the hourly service anymore.
all future/present rail services & infrastructure paid for by WAG have had a very in depth inspection for the statement.
I understand a lot of Ieuan Jones colleagues & cronies are not happy.

10% less capital budget year on year, 3% less revenue budget year on year has been doing the rounds for some time.

 

[Beveridges]

It will become clear next Wednesday,when the spending cuts are announced, don't hold your breath for the hourly service anymore.
all future/present rail services & infrastructure paid for by WAG have had a very in depth inspection for the statement.
I understand a lot of Ieuan Jones colleagues & cronies are not happy.

Do you mean the infrastructure that is requires for the hourly service is not up to the standard required? The hourly service to be scrapped altogether, rather than more delay? This would be devastating for me as I have been on hold for a drivers position with ATW for the last year that was subject to the hourly service coming in. The waiting has been extremely painful and frustrating, and it has come to this after all these false promises