Thank you for confirming. That is good to hear. I was not quite sure about this. Good to hear they are guaranteed unlike the OBS on the Southern network.
TfW 769s are guard open and close, like everything else in the TfW fleet.
Thank you for confirming. That is good to hear. I shall update my list. It will be interesting to see how the GWR ones operate when they finally enter service. I would guess they would operate Guard Open Guard Close just as the Northern Rail and TFW ones all do. But then considering they are replacing the 165s and 166s perhaps they will use Driver Open Guard Close instead.
I understand initially guard opens/closes but working towards driver opens/guards closes (boo).
Thank you for the information. That is shame they are not keeping it Guard Open Guard Close permanently. I suppose they did operate DOO at Thameslink so it is simple to switch to Driver Open Guard Close as all the buttons are already there in the cabs.
Pass on that as I don't sign Gatwick ,but if that's the case at Dorking then I'd imagine a local door requirement would be provided like the turbos. I'll ask around next time I'm in the area.
I'd really like someone to clear this one up. Redhill and Gatwick are both stations with dispatchers. If it was really DOO then the guard would not go down to Gatwick and back but I watched the dispatch sequence at Redhill (towards Gatwick) the other day and the guard is definitely involved.
Platform extensions at Dorking Deepdene mean that both platforms are now 87.8m long, easily enough for a 769 - see Sectional Appendix
Thank you. Another member has pointed out that the platforms have now been extended which i had not realised. Good to hear this so the local door only operation will not be required.
If i remember correctly i think it is only the services that are driven by Southern drivers that are DOO with all the services driven by GWR drivers still having a Guard on them. However to make it more confusing not all of the services driven by Southern drivers are DOO as some do still have a Guard onboard. I do not have a full list of which services are DOO but i know the 04:45 Redhill to Gatwick Airport 04:53 is definitely DOO. I think that the return at 05:10 Gatwick Airport to Redhill 05:20 is also DOO. Plus the 00:58 Redhill to Gatwick Airport 01:07 is another one which i think runs DOO. It seems it is mainly the early morning and late evening journeys that seem to run DOO. On most other services there is a Guard who does the doors and despatches the train. Hopefully someone else on this forum may be able to give the full list of DOO journeys.
Its perhaps also worth mentioning GWR attempted to negotiate a more comprehensive agreement with unions akin to the more recent Greater Anglia DCO deal.
Yes you are right. I forgot about the term DCO instead of DOO for when there is a guaranteed second person on the train. So this is the same system as on the SWR 701s and many AGA routes.
I thought i remembered hearing something many years ago about GWR wanting the drivers to have full control of the doors and despatch on all routes on the 800 and 802 trains.
Thank you for the information. It must be the prototype one coach pacers i am thinking of.
Thank you for clearing this up. Much appreciated. So has it always been like this or has this changed recently? Did some services previously operate between Gatwick Airport and Redhill with no Guard onboard the train at all? I am sure i remember hearing of some trains running without a Guard onboard. Interestingly on the Real Time Trains website it is showing the 04:45 Redhill to Gatwick Airport 04:53 train as a DOO operated service so i am wondering if it was in the past.
The morning service is 22000 operated and the evening one 29000. It returns ECS to Dundalk.
RE: flags on the Irish rail system, the station work complete handsignal is one arm raised above the head during the day and a white light held steadily above the head during darkness/poor visibility (despatch batons are used generally)
Thank you. I was unaware the morning one was a 22000 and the 29000 was only used on the evening one. I shall definitely keep an eye out next time i visit. I will probably visit Northern Ireland later this year so may visit Newry and see how things work.
Thank you. That is very helpful to know. Just to confirm are the entire fleets of 22000 and 29000 trains allowed to cross the border and operate on the Northern Ireland services? Or is it only certain units that have been fitted with the necessary equipment?
That is what i was wondering too. I have not seen much information saying how this service will operate. But it seems the service will operate DOO. Their website does mention "Onboard Ambassadors" but it is still unclear as to what their roll will be. Maybe someone can confirm.
It's quite simple - ECTL/Lumo are a brand new company and hence were free to start with a blank sheet and recruit all drivers on DOO terms.
That makes sense. I did not think of that. I suppose it is much easy to implement DOO when you are a brand new company.
In times of disruption a mainline service can leave the London terminus without a guard and pick up the guard at Bromley South or Swanley for example. But the drivers must be informed as to what is going on.
Wikipedia says 22001-22006 and 22036-22039 fitted with TPWS and AWS (although 22001/22002 were at one time specially marshalled to box in the cabs of 22001).
It always amused me the irony that for many years the Íarnrod Eireann operated trains over the border were bright orange.
Unless the rules have changed, it used to be that non fitted trains could cross the border, but required two drivers to do so. Judging by Bernie Arms' remark about the 29000 class, that appears to still be the case, and that the 29000 class are not fitted.
There is a morning and evening IE commuter service to/from Newry.
Thank you for confirming this. That is good to know. I thought that may have been the case. I suppose that makes sense as other metro services run DOO without any second member of staff onboard in this area.
That is interesting to hear. I never realised there were any livery differences. Can i ask what exactly are the livery differences? I have looked at photos online and i can only find one livery for the 22000s (the standard grey with green doors) and two liveries for the 29000s (the older green and blue and white livery and the newer allover green livery) so just wondering what is the livery difference for the cross border units?
Thank you for the information. That is good to know. Do you know if the 4000 have ever worked on cross border services? I know plenty of 3000 and 22000 and 29000 have but i have never seen any evidence of the 4000 on cross border services so i am guessing that they are not allowed?
I have just found two different videos on You Tube of the 29000 trains at Newry and in both these videos there are clearly two drivers in the cab. So that confirms what you have said. So that means any 29000 trains crossing the border must have three staff members (two drivers and one guard) compared to just one staff member needed anywhere on the Republic Of Ireland network.
Indeed from looking at the timetable both the following services appear to still run:
One of the Enterprise sets is long term out of traffic due to severe fire damage to its mk3 EGV
With due respect you are getting extremely microscopic in the levels of detail here with your questions? Why do you need to know this level of detail?
Thank you. That explains it. However from looking online it appears that there are actually four sets for only three diagrams. So i am guessing that there must be a second set out of use as well.
I am just simply curious about this. There is not so much information available online regarding this compared to information available for operations over here in the UK. I know in NI and ROI a lot less information is available (such as working timetables etc) compared to what we have available online for the UK. No other reason other than that.
There are three Enterprise sets and a number of spare coaches which are rotated in/out of the regular sets. Not four sets.
