East Coast Scuppered

[DarloRich]

Only seems to be EC services. XC are running via Leeds and Doncaster, not sure about HT/GC

 

[MadCommuter]

ALL TRAINS SOUTH OF YORK BY EC SUSSPENDED FOR THE REST OF THE DAY - word form my control room @ 1028

That is a mammoth section of line to close!

 

[Failed Unit]

ALL TRAINS SOUTH OF YORK BY EC SUSSPENDED FOR THE REST OF THE DAY - word form my control room @ 1028

Surely an hourly service to Peterborough would be a good thing. Some passengers may be going to peterborough anyway.

It does always seem to be the same areas losing the wires. Just hope WCML keeps going.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Looking at east coasts website that looks like what they are planning starting services at Peterborough at the booked time.

 

[ushawk]

NRE website is saying FCC trains are suspended between Peterborough and Biggleswade.

Only WCML problem is a signal fault at Lockerbie, at the moment - last thing wanted is for that line to have a problem as well.

 

[MadCommuter]

I guess they are trying to avoid Sunday's chaos at PBO. York should have better onward connections, but yes, a limited service to PBO is needed for those heading to East Anglia.

 

[PTF62]

NRE website is saying FCC trains are suspended between Peterborough and Biggleswade.

But the FCC website is still spewing the same nonsense as before, with all trains from Biggleswade cancelled, as seems that nobody at FCC can be bothered to update their website (last updated 9:10). After all, why would anybody want to know what is going on.

 

[jon0844]

Putting sensible information on the website, utterly impossible for FCC.

I have never been one of these mad 'they should lose their franchise' types of person, and will always defend a TOC for all the good things they do, but this new information system is so bad that if FCC doesn't (as it would appear) care about fixing it so it can provide information, it IS the sort of thing that should be considered as a major breach of their franchise.

They provided poor information before, but now it may as well be generated at random on the basis that some of the info might be right by accident.

How long can FCC get away with this? Is there anyone that can actually say that they went a whole day with the right information being given about ANY problem? Trains on time showing as late (so you'd miss it if you took it easy to get to the station), cancelled trains showing as late (so you'd wait forever), incorrect descriptions of delays - but usually no information, safety announcements that interrupt train information on approaching trains (then starts after the train is ready to depart), FCC not updating the information for when they change the services (e.g. emergency timetable) so none of the trains that ARE running show and all the ones that AREN'T are.... the list is nearly endless.

The irony is that for a lot of the FCC network, the overhead line problem isn't actually affecting them too bad - yet nobody can have any faith or trust in the system at all. I feel for the staff as they probably know little more, and already spend ages apologising for the incorrect information being given - and at Hatfield it's a blessing that they've still not fixed the volume so you can't hear the nonsense being spouted on the platform.

It does seem like EC is giving more information to passengers, but what a joke that the overhead lines can't stay up due to a bit of cold weather. It has been like this a couple of years in a row now, possibly longer.

 

[Max]

The Grand Central diverted via Cambridge with about 10
people on it. Why couldn't it have called en-route to help stranded passengers? I saw it whilst stood on the platform at Cambridge, so ironically those handful of passengers will make it to London before me, despite me having to jump through hoops to make it to Kings Cross.

 

[t0ffeeman]

I can confirm that trains are shunting at Biggleswade. Not the easiest shunt either!

 

[TheBigD]

The Grand Central diverted via Cambridge with about 10
people on it. Why couldn't it have called en-route to help stranded passengers? I saw it whilst stood on the platform at Cambridge, so ironically those handful of passengers will make it to London before me, despite me having to jump through hoops to make it to Kings Cross.

From Karen Boswell...

Positive new partnership between East Coast and Grand Central Railway



I wanted to update you about a positive new partnership between East Coast and Grand Central Railway.


I recognise that there have been some tensions between the operators of the East Coast franchise and Grand Central since the Open Access Operator first started to run services on the route three years ago.


After East Coast took over the operation of the franchise just over a year ago, we entered into discussions with Grand Central to try to resolve a number of issues.


Both East Coast and Grand Central were committed to finding ways to work better together for not just our mutual benefit but, most importantly of all, for the benefit of the customers who use both services.


I am pleased to tell you today that we have resolved all outstanding issues and have agreed a partnership approach which will help us both to continue to grow the railway and improve our customer service.


Specifically, the new partnership will mean:


East Coast will allow GCR access into its Travel Centre to train East Coast’s staff about their products
East Coast will meet with GCR to discuss how its fares are displayed on our TVMs and website, and ensure our staff always present GCR fares as options when these are relevant
East Coast will carry GCR’s passengers in the event of a GCR train failing, and GCR will carry East Coast’s passengers in the event of an East Coast train failing (disruption caused by network failure will be treated in accordance with industry guidelines). While this will not be undertaken free of charge, it will remove complexity from the front line and help to improve customers’ opinion of the railway as we make things more convenient and “joined up”
East Coast will receive a greater share of the “any permitted” Standard Class revenue between York and London
East Coast will reinstate the inter-available First Class Anytime fare between York and London
East Coast and GCR will enter into a reciprocal arrangement to allow staff duty travel on each other’s services

The forging of a good working relationship, spirit of co-operation and new partnership approach with Grand Central will benefit both businesses and, most importantly, our customers.


I’m sure you’ll join me in welcoming these changes and in looking forward to working more closely with colleagues from Grand Central.


With kind regards,

Karen Boswell

Managing Director
who_cares
Chatter


Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 23:16

 

[PTF62]

I can confirm that trains are shunting at Biggleswade. Not the easiest shunt either!

That should be changing very soon to them turning around at St Neots.

I still find it astounding that FCC cannot get out the simplest information, either on their website or at the stations.

Here we are at 11:36am and the last update on the FCC website was at 9:10am.

Really how hard is it for someone to put some basic details on the website. The 9:10 update has no information that trains are turning at Biggleswade, no information about what timetable they are running to, no information about any arrangements for passengers at Huntingdon or St Neots.

 

[Failed Unit]

Which trains are trapped?

I guess the 0600 London - Leeds and 0615 London - Edinburgh are. Which FCC services are also stranded?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Slightly iunrelated, but is it bad around Bishops Stortford/Stansted too?

http://realtime.nationalrail.co.uk/northern/summary.aspx?T=BIS&submit=View+Live+Departures

Most Stansted Express trains, and the locals to Stratford are cancelled, but the XC services from Stansted appear to be OK hock:

 

[jon0844]

Oh dear, FCC must be trying to bribe me as the post has just arrived and I've received two (standard class) scratch-card tickets for use throughout their network with a 'thank you for renewing your season ticket' card!

...but my ANNUAL season runs out next week and I haven't renewed it yet!

 

[TheBigD]

The last train South was the 0605 LDS-KGX. Left Peterbrough at 0740.

0700 ex KGX is one that's definitely stuck as they've had people on board phoning the BBC!

 

[MadCommuter]

Will the stranded trains be evacuated or dragged in some way?

 

[talltim]

It's strange how there always seem to be plenty of buses/coaches and drivers sitting around with nothing to do just waiting to the called up for rail replacement services. I'm aware that neither cost as much as their railway equivalents (although enough drivers to cover a full EC train's worth of passengers can't come cheap)

 

[ainsworth74]

BBC News have picked up on the chaos on the ECML. See here. Nice to see they chose a member of the public who was praising rail staff for once.

 

[Legzr1]

Not the case. The conductor just needs to sign the route. The booked driver drives to his direction. However, if the conductor signs the traction, he must drive it as well.

Remembering that the conducting driver needs to know where the emergency brake is if not driving the traction themselves.

 

[PTF62]

Finally another update from FCC at noon, but their website still continues to spew garbage.

The 'Service Update' page says -

Alterations to services to/from Peterborough

* Fast services between King’s Cross and Peterborough have been cancelled.
* Stopping services are running between King’s Cross and St Neots with buses replacing trains between St Neots and Peterborough.
* Journey times to/from Peterborough will be extended by at least 60 minutes for the rest of the day.

The Live Departures continues to show all trains cancelled from St Neots (it only shows the 13:07 and 14:07).

However the 'Todays Updates' shows the 12:43 from Peterborough (which is the 13:07 from St Neots) as both -

12:43 Peterborough to London Kings Cross due 14:00

More info

This train will be started from St Neots.
It will no longer call at: Peterborough and Huntingdon.
This is due to overhead wire problems.

and that train is listed in another entry


12:43 Peterborough to London Kings Cross due 14:00

More info

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to overhead wire problems.

Meanwhile the National Rail Enquiries web site is showing all trains from St Neots cancelled.

How hard is it to put out some sensible information that does not conflict with other information that the same organisation is publishing.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Interesting announcement from EC quoted by TheBigD

From Karen Boswell...

Both East Coast and Grand Central were committed to finding ways to work better together for not just our mutual benefit but, most importantly of all, for the benefit of the customers who use both services.

. . . . .

I am pleased to tell you today that we have resolved all outstanding issues and have agreed a partnership approach . . . .

East Coast will receive a greater share of the “any permitted” Standard Class revenue between York and London

Many of the terms of this 'agreement' seem to be genuinely co-operative between the two companies, and we should all welcome that approach.

However the "greater share of the “any permitted” Standard Class revenue between York and London" reads to me more like the outcome of some challenging negotiations from which EC have come away with a clear financial advantage over GC.

But whose ticket offices or web sites sell "any permited" tickets? Not Grand Central, surely?

 

[PTF62]

And for northbound passengers, although FCC's 'Service Update' page says -

Alterations to services to/from Peterborough

* Fast services between King’s Cross and Peterborough have been cancelled.
* Stopping services are running between King’s Cross and St Neots with buses replacing trains between St Neots and Peterborough.
* Journey times to/from Peterborough will be extended by at least 60 minutes for the rest of the day.

According to their 'Todays Updates' the only problems are with trains leaving Kings Cross up to 13:22, after that, everything is fine.

Again, how hard is it to put out some sensible non-conflicting information.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And although the National Rail Enquiries website is showing numerous cancelled trains to and from Peterborough, their 'Service Alteration' page was updated at 12:47 to say -

Great Northern Route

At this time a normal service is expected to run, however we advise passengers to check before they travel to check that this is the same.

So FCC saying some trains running, but their website doesn't seem to know which ones, Live Departures showing nothing running, and National Rail Enquiries think everything is OK.

Great.

 

[googolplex]

Crikey, it seems even worse today then!
I ended up getting into Stevenage at about 4.15 and was home by about 5.00.
The information provided by East Coast yesterday wasn't always that up to date and it took 2 hours for information on the delays to appear on either the East Coast or the NRE website.
The internal communications however seemed to be reasonably good, as whenever I saw the guard his Blackberry was ringing or he was using it.

 

[jon0844]

They may as well say, 'The information we give you might be wrong, so please check before you try and travel - but not with us, as we'll give you totally misleading info. Best stay at home, while we run empty ghost trains that nobody entered into the national rail database.'

Doesn't FCC consider that it might be losing a lot of revenue given that they so regularly show no trains when they ARE running - as well as the other way around? Regular commuters either stay home (and they've paid anyway) or stand around and spot the trains that are running.. all the leisure travellers who might still be able to get around to do last minute shopping or go out socialising will be convinced nothing is running!

What a joke! Perhaps FCC is just hopeful of getting lots of compensation from Network Rail and don't really care if anyone is on the trains or not.

 

[PTF62]

Perhaps FCC...don't really care.

Would be my summary.

Joking aside, the problem is that FCC just don't seem to learn. Yes **** happens and passengers generally accept that, since it is beyond FCC's control if the overhead lines come down.

What is not beyond FCC's control is to get up to date accurate information out to passengers, to allow them to make a rational and considered decision about what to do next.

And yet today, it takes them over three hours to start to put any semblance of sensible information out, but they still manage to screw it up.

 

[ushawk]

Slightly iunrelated, but is it bad around Bishops Stortford/Stansted too?

http://realtime.nationalrail.co.uk/northern/summary.aspx?T=BIS&submit=View+Live+Departures

Most Stansted Express trains, and the locals to Stratford are cancelled, but the XC services from Stansted appear to be OK hock:

Revised NXEA service is causing that, not related to the other problems.

 

[jon0844]

Yes **** happens and passengers generally accept that, since it is beyond FCC's control if the overhead lines come down.

What is not beyond FCC's control is to get up to date accurate information out to passengers, to allow them to make a rational and considered decision about what to do next.

Precisely. That's why I've defended them so much when they take all the blame for things that are out of their control. I cannot excuse them for their inability to provide basic information.

Surely all it takes is a couple of members of staff with the SOLE duty to provide information, possibly even just one. The task is to manually provide information and liaise with those who have accurate information. If the brand new CIS that promised so much can't do the job, disable it and use the 'information' section to relay useful information. Almost every screen can display running info/notes, but has rarely done so to give anything more than fairly basic and generic messages.

I can imagine it's just telling people to check the website or something to get information today - which is ridiculous given that it's the information screen - that should give the information - telling you to seek information somewhere else!!

I really feel for the staff. At my station, it's the job of the staff to go out and keep the platforms cleared and lay down salt/ice remover, so they're having to juggle between clearing, manning the gateline or selling tickets in the office, and now they have to try and relay information to angry (and confused) passengers. The gateline staff have to assume that what they get via their BlackBerry is accurate, but even they can't be sure if the screens show something else. No wonder they don't want to commit too much, as they may end up giving wrong info and being blamed.

Year after year, it's the same complaint; lack of information, and not just on FCC I might add. Yet, every year that goes by we have more methods of getting information to people; The web, SMS, mobile apps, information screens, IM, Twitter.... yet FCC seemed to have lost interest in using its Twitter account earlier this year too, which is odd given how it's regarded as the new way to give live information to people. Oh look: http://twitter.com/firstcc (Last update 2nd December). What a farce!!!

 

[PTF62]

I really feel for the staff. At my station, it's the job of the staff to go out and keep the platforms cleared and lay down salt/ice remover, so they're having to juggle between clearing, manning the gateline or selling tickets in the office, and now they have to try and relay information to angry (and confused) passengers.

Absolutely. I got caught this morning as I was at one of the stations immediately south of the problem, shortly after the lines came down.

The station staff had no information, other than being able to see on their system the train that was stuck in the powercut. Meanwhile the information screens and tannoy announcements kept announcing that the trains would arrive in two minutes, putting the arrival time back every two minutes...

There was an FCC manager at the station who was attempting to find out what was going on, but even he couldn't get any sense out of anyone.

And what makes this worse is this happens, time and time again. Even yesterday, when they had announced mid-morning that they had gone to an emergency timetable, in the middle of the afternoon their website incorrectly reverted to showing that everything was running normally.

 

[telstarbox]

One of the recommendations in the Winter Resilience Report published today was for better information:

Lots of recommendations for railways there too, worth a read!

http://transportwinterresilience.in.../final-report/wrr-final-report-2010-10-22.PDF

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Just heard on the news that taxi drivers love this - a Newcastle taxi firm is making £570 a time taking people down to London!

When is everything due to be back up and running, and, just to confirm, are Hull Trains and Grand Central services running via Cambridge?