Southern Class 455 Withdrawal

[Nicholas Lewis]

All 377 subclasses are compatible. Travelled on a 9 car the other day without any issues!

The 5 cars will be redistributed to replace 8 car 455s on LBG - BKJ, CAT, ECR stoppers etc with LBG- CAT/TAT fasts becoming 8 car 377s (2x4). Don’t think any 5+3 workings are being planned.

That certainly makes sense but they ought to declassify the FC.

377/6 and /7 units seem faster than the other 377s which compared to 455s have the same acceleration

6's and 7's have an additional motor coach so nominally about 25% more hp/tonne and in DC mode they certainly accelerate better. Was always my preferred train up in the morning was the HRH-LBG via GTW that recycled a 377/6 off a Dorking working for some reason.

 

[Southern Dvr]

FC is declassified on all metro routes.
But don’t tell everyone. It’s always fine watching the punters walk off thinking they can’t sit there. Makes for a more peaceful journey!!

 

[Class455]

I'd expect the latter, because there simple aren't any future uses for them particularly as they're 3rd rail only and the current electrification extensions which are in flight are OHL.

Most old stock has been stored for a year or two before preceding to a scrap yard. I think the 455's will be placed into storage first as they may be needed again if demand continues to grow (which I think is quite likely to happen)

 

[physics34]

Most old stock has been stored for a year or two before preceding to a scrap yard. I think the 455's will be placed into storage first as they may be needed again if demand continues to grow (which I think is quite likely to happen)

The 377s at southeastern and the GN 387s will eventually come over to fill some of the gaps and relieve the 313s too. SWR will not need our 455s and neither will SE, so im afraid its curtains for the 455/8s.

 

[A0wen]

Most old stock has been stored for a year or two before preceding to a scrap yard. I think the 455's will be placed into storage first as they may be needed again if demand continues to grow (which I think is quite likely to happen)

The 313s weren't - they went straight from Hornsey to scrap. Same with a number of the 315s.

I doubt the 455s will be left hanging about when there are 465s in store which could be brought back into service and those are much younger.

 

[cjmillsnun]

These realy are a very old obselete train. Can't imagine the slightest bit of interest in them. Straight to Newport.

Agreed. There won’t be much of use from them to help patch up the SWR fleet until the 701s fully enter service as the SN 455 are all still on their DC traction equipment, and the cabs and passenger accommodation is totally different because of the differing refurbs. Time for them to go straight for scrap

 

[trainmania100]

Straight to Booths and Simms.
They were actually put up on Eversholt’s available for lease list before Christmas. Obviously as mentioned elsewhere there is no use for them elsewhere so scrap beckons.

Probably not the right thread for this but I assume the 313s would also be sent straight to scrap like the 315s?

 

[43102EMR]

Probably not the right thread for this but I assume the 313s would also be sent straight to scrap like the 315s?

One (313201) is to be preserved, but yes I can imagine they will be sent straight to scrap.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Can someone post a list of the 455s in use and their states?

It would also be nice to get a list of routes on which they most commonly appear.

Thanks,

 

[swt_passenger]

It would also be nice to get a list of routes on which they most commonly appear.

Thanks,

The second part of your question was asked and answered a few days ago, here:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/southern-455-diagram-request.228446/

 

[Railcar]

It will be good to get rid of the 445s on my local line (Sutton to West Croydon). The shudder as they move away, the throbbing of a compressor (?) as they are standing at a station, the internal noise as they run are all features that irk when compared to a 377.

 

[trainmania100]

It will be good to get rid of the 445s on my local line (Sutton to West Croydon). The shudder as they move away, the throbbing of a compressor (?) as they are standing at a station, the internal noise as they run are all features that irk when compared to a 377.

Frankly there are people out there that like that sort of thing. I liked the noises the 442s used to make , like a winny winny winny sort of sound

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Frankly there are people out there that like that sort of thing. I liked the noises the 442s used to make , like a winny winny winny sort of sound

Those that like it when trains make lots of noise are definitely a minority, and usually confined to the rail enthusiast community.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Personally, I like the sound of the compressors. So that makes me in the minority....

 

[physics34]

Frankly there are people out there that like that sort of thing. I liked the noises the 442s used to make , like a winny winny winny sort of sound

Im one of them. The compressor going is kinda relaxing and rhythmic

 

[Techniquest]

Im one of them. The compressor going is kinda relaxing and rhythmic

Yes if it is the sound I'm thinking of then it will be sorely missed by me too. It's enough to generate some nostalgia for me, and even now I'm getting all nostalgic for the mid-2000s railway.

The 455s may not be perfect, and to be honest they aren't my favourite class of EMU (that is an honour shared by the 319s and 323s), but the 455s have so much character. If the walls of those trains could talk, I wonder what stories they'd have to tell!

 

[Timmyd]

All 377 subclasses are compatible. Travelled on a 9 car the other day without any issues!

The 5 cars will be redistributed to replace 8 car 455s on LBG - BKJ, CAT, ECR stoppers etc with LBG- CAT/TAT fasts becoming 8 car 377s (2x4). Don’t think any 5+3 workings are being planned.

Welcome the arrival of the 377s to replace the 455 on the inners you mention but 5 cars wont be adequate replacements for the 8x455s on peak services on those lines. Presumably you are talking about them operating singly rather than in pairs, given the platforms are too short.

 

[brad465]

Welcome the arrival of the 377s to replace the 455 on the inners you mention but 5 cars wont be adequate replacements for the 8x455s on peak services on those lines. Presumably you are talking about them operating singly rather than in pairs, given the platforms are too short.

What are the termini platform lengths? I can see BKJ being 8 car max, but not familiar with the others, where if they can take 10 cars SDO can settle the intermediate calls.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

What are the termini platform lengths? I can see BKJ being 8 car max, but not familiar with the others, where if they can take 10 cars SDO can settle the intermediate calls.

East Croydon can take 12.

Caterham and Beckenham Junction are 8.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Personally, I like the sound of the compressors. So that makes me in the minority....

Not quite im onboard as well especially as these were scavenged off redundant slam door stock. BR was ahead of the curve on recycling!

 

[Class455]

The 377s at southeastern and the GN 387s will eventually come over to fill some of the gaps and relieve the 313s too. SWR will not need our 455s and neither will SE, so im afraid its curtains for the 455/8s.

Providing GN and SE get the stock needed to replace the 387's and 377/5s. I have no doubt they will but my point was if demand was to return and these units weren't available yet then the 455's could potentially return as a short term measure. Whilst it may seem unlikely, I wouldn't rule it out

The 313s weren't - they went straight from Hornsey to scrap. Same with a number of the 315s.

I doubt the 455s will be left hanging about when there are 465s in store which could be brought back into service and those are much younger.

Hence why I said "most units went into storage rather than scrap" .

 

[MML]

46 x 455
19 x 313
Total 65 to be scrapped.

Replaced by
29 x 387/1 ex GN
9 x 387/2 ex GN & GWR sublease
2 x 377/1 ex SE
23 x 377/5 ex SE
6 x 387 ex C2C
Total 69 although C2C and GWR may not be available immediately and some 387 could be retained by GN if a pure 379 fleet proves insufficient.

GN to receive 30 x 379 ex GA
SE to replace 377s with return of Networkers from storage.

 

[YSTrains]

When they mean by 'withdrawal by May 2022', will it be on the day before the timetable change?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

46 x 455
19 x 313
Total 65 to be scrapped.

Replaced by
29 x 387/1 ex GN
9 x 387/2 ex GN & GWR sublease
2 x 377/1 ex SE
23 x 377/5 ex SE
6 x 387 ex C2C
Total 69 although C2C and GWR may not be available immediately and some 387 could be retained by GN if a pure 379 fleet proves insufficient.

GN to receive 30 x 379 ex GA
SE to replace 377s with return of Networkers from storage.

I don’t quite follow you here, you are suggesting to cascade in 69 units to replace a net 65 existing units so an additional 4 units, yet the train service is being cut in May 22 such as to take out duplicating services such as Southern Trains to Milton Keynes thereby reducing the number of fleet required so surely the end position needs to be a less than 65 units to replace the 313s and 455s.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I’m sure people were saying not all of GN 387s would be going over?

 

[Techniquest]

Aren't some of the 387s that have gone to GWR not meant to be staying? I'm out of the loop with the /2s and /3s, but weren't at least some of the /3s staying on the Western and are not all the /2s gone from there? Which would mean the numbers in the post summarising what should be moving around will be lower.

I would also concur with those suggesting that the 455s get put into store to begin with, just in case of sudden spikes in passenger numbers when the weather improves, when people decide they've had enough of being indoors during the winter and want to go back to 'normal'. It certainly would not hurt to keep at least some ready to go, just in case, for a short time to see if humanity does what it does best, that is the unexpected.

Of course, I still expect all will be fine and good, those who know what they're doing with timetables, modelling and so on at GTR have no doubt factored this in when making their decisions. I'd also like to add that, while I'd look to keeping a handful of 455s ready for crowd-busting purposes this summer, that if I had the opportunity to effectively have a spring clean of the fleet, to bring it a bit more up to date, then I'd be doing so post-haste!

Cutting back the Southern service to MKC, well I can see why it would be done. It only makes sense, and I confess I've only been on one 377/7 north of London years ago so I have only one piece of anecdotal evidence, based on what I saw when I used the service. On my one use of it, this would have been in the early to mid afternoon from memory, out of MKC it was a pretty quiet train. It didn't really get all that busy until we approached places like Watford and by Harrow & Wealdstone it got much busier.

Which makes sense as it is a very useful route, but beyond Watford Junction I would permanently axe it too. Of course, this would not allow for peak time variations, but given what I've seen of the peak it's just not the same anyway.

Which leads me somewhat onto an important question. If the 455s went into short term store, where would have sufficient room for a decent size number of them?

 

[Minstral25]

46 x 455
19 x 313
Total 65 to be scrapped.

Replaced by
29 x 387/1 ex GN
9 x 387/2 ex GN & GWR sublease
2 x 377/1 ex SE
23 x 377/5 ex SE
6 x 387 ex C2C
Total 69 although C2C and GWR may not be available immediately and some 387 could be retained by GN if a pure 379 fleet proves insufficient.

GN to receive 30 x 379 ex GA
SE to replace 377s with return of Networkers from storage.

This I would assume is speculation - unless you have a source

 

[Southern Dvr]

The 455s drop down dead on 14th May 14th. They will not be used after that and will go direct to scrap.

The cost to run a 455 is much more expensive than to run a unit with AC traction equipment. If the demand suddenly returns then there will be a lot of unhappy punters on busy trains and that’s a fact. There will also be driver competency factors to consider and so on and so forth. My understanding is that it’s not a long drawn out process like it has been with the Class 315s but rather a Big Bang in May where they all go. Considering the amount of money spent on C4 overhauls it really is amazing.

 

[JonathanH]

When they mean by 'withdrawal by May 2022', will it be on the day before the timetable change?

Or the Friday

Normal practice is to run down the use of the units over the period between an announcement of the fleet being taken out of service and their last day.

The complication here is that part of the release is further timetable cuts which aren't effective until the timetable change so it isn't clear how many are needed right up until the end.

 

[43102EMR]

I’m sure people were saying not all of GN 387s would be going over?

Was about to say - surely it would be most not all? Otherwise how would GN run the full timetable?