EMR Class 360's

[Hairy Bear]

The tsr on the up slow between Kettering ang Wellingborough is only a 100m long and we are soon back up to 90 along that section,
as we approach Wellingborough North junction it drops down to 60. Yes the 360's are a bit lively on that section and bounce around quite a bit , they don't ride well on poorly laid track unlike the 222's. The portion between Harrowden and Wellingboro is very poor, but not yet at the stage of being reportable.

 

[DarloRich]

So lets unpick this a little - firstly the "poor ride", well since it seems the poor ride on that section of track is also seen on other rolling stock, the finger of suspicion should probably be pointed at the track rather than the units.

Having removed that the remaining complaint seems to be about the seats, their type, quality etc (always a joyous topic here on Railforums) and the general condition of the units.

The 360s are very similar to the 350s which have a monopoly on the services from Northampton - which is a slightly longer journey to Euston than Wellingborough is to St Pancras. The seats on the 2+2 units are fine, the seats on the 3+2 are OK, but given the capacity needed pre Covid during the rush hour it made sense to go with that layout. On the occasions pre Covid when I travelled from Wellingborough to London in the rush hour, you could easily be condemned to having to stand on the journey into London and possibly back to Luton or Bedford on the return depending on the time train you got. The fact that a 4 car 360 has about 300 seats compared to about 240 on a 5 car Merdian which was usually heading onto Leicester and beyond so had the passengers for those, means the likelihood of getting a seat even on a 4 car 360 in the rush hour at Wellingborough ought to be much, much greater.

So that leaves the fare structure - if it bothers you *that* much, ticket split at Bedford which is easier now all trains stop at Bedford. It's easy to forget how much better the overall service Wellingborough gets now compared to 20 years ago.

Got to agree with this. The 350's are superb trains. Really good. I am suprised the froth the emr use of 360's on comparible ( to lnwr) london servies generates. They should be just as good.

They are tatty inside and need a tart up but otherwise are good trains

 

[baz962]

Just as an update - you were right, there's a gauge defect at Mill Hill Broadway, up and down slow lines are blocked to all freight traffic, down slow line blocked to 360, up slow line has 360 speed restriction and both lines have 180 speed restrictions. Causing problems with overnight engineering work.

Didn't last long. 360's now allowed through mill hill again

 

[Mikw]

Just to add my opinions on the Class 360.

I really like them, find them smooth and quick. The 3x2 seating doesn't bother me at all. In fact, if i go to the very back of the train (on the way into London) and the very front on the way back (as long as it's a 8 carriage set) there always seems to be plenty of spare seats and plenty of room.

Could do charging points, but apart from that i'm happy with them

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder this is a Traction & Rolling Stock thread to discuss EMR Class 360s

We absolutely do welcome any discussion on anything else (including suggestions for electrification, line re-openings, debates on ticketing, and more!) but we do ask that, for anything not directly related to EMR 360 updates, a new thread is posted (if there isn't one already) in the appropriate forum section please

EMR fares discussion has been moved to:

EMR fares should be lowered to levels comparable with other lines

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/emr-class-360s.205226/ Got to agree with this. The 350's are superb trains. Really good. I am suprised the froth the emr use of 360's on comparible ( to lnwr) london servies generates. They should be just as good. Have you seen...

www.railforums.co.uk

Thanks

 

[MML]

GBRF 47 dragging a 360 from Northampton EMD to Cricklewood and returning this evening with another.

Realtime Trains | 5Q92 1527 Cricklewood South Sidings to Northampton Emd | 03/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Q92 1527 departure from Cricklewood South Sidings to Northampton Emd on 03/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q91 1048 Northampton Emd to Cricklewood South Sidings | 03/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Q91 1048 departure from Northampton Emd to Cricklewood South Sidings on 03/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

A slightly around the houses route via Stratford of all places, but it's nice to see these units are eventually getting some well deserved attention from Siemens.

 

[Helvellyn]

Hopefully the stored units are being brought back into use as passenger numbers start to pick-up. Some peak services could definitely do with being 12 coaches.

 

[43096]

GBRF 47 dragging a 360 from Northampton EMD to Cricklewood and returning this evening with another.

Realtime Trains | 5Q92 1527 Cricklewood South Sidings to Northampton Emd | 03/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Q92 1527 departure from Cricklewood South Sidings to Northampton Emd on 03/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q91 1048 Northampton Emd to Cricklewood South Sidings | 03/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Q91 1048 departure from Northampton Emd to Cricklewood South Sidings on 03/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

A slightly around the houses route via Stratford of all places, but it's nice to see these units are eventually getting some well deserved attention from Siemens.

Moves between the MML and Northampton have been occurring on a regular basis to rotate sets through the heavier exams which Siemens are doing.

 

[Hairy Bear]

There are no stored units. The ones not used are either faulty, being painted or away for modifications. We are now 1 year on from being introduced , so what we have now, is how it will be forever until something seriously changes.

 

[QSK19]

Some peak services could definitely do with being 12 coaches.

Isn’t there some sort of union dispute over 12-car running? Makes me think how useful it would have been to have gangwayed stock such as the 379s; but beggars can’t be choosers, I suppose.

so what we have now, is how it will be forever until something seriously changes.

Get rid of them and bring in the 379s or new gangwayed stock (or 720/745-based if non-gangway). Ah, how dreams never come true

 

[Carlisle]

Get rid of them and bring in the 379s or new gangwayed stock (or 720/745-based if non-gangway). Ah, how dreams never come true

I’m sure some degree of integration with the existing Thameslink services would’ve also likely been helpful in an ideal world & not the one dependant on cost & complexity of contractual agreements.

 

[Helvellyn]

There are no stored units. The ones not used are either faulty, being painted or away for modifications. We are now 1 year on from being introduced , so what we have now, is how it will be forever until something seriously changes.

I meant stored as in the faulty units that had been at Cricklewood.

 

[spotify95]

The tsr on the up slow between Kettering ang Wellingborough is only a 100m long and we are soon back up to 90 along that section,
as we approach Wellingborough North junction it drops down to 60. Yes the 360's are a bit lively on that section and bounce around quite a bit , they don't ride well on poorly laid track unlike the 222's. The portion between Harrowden and Wellingboro is very poor, but not yet at the stage of being reportable.

But why is the track along that section of poor quality when it was only just re-laid in order to accommodate two slow lines (for the 360s)?

Also if I remember correctly, when the 360s were first launched, they waited for a fast Sheffield to pass it at Kettering, then went onto the Up Fast (110mph capable) - whereas now, they always use the Up Slow until Wellingborough (90mph capable).

Also, since they re-laid the lines, why did they not re-lay the Up (and Down) Slows between Wellingborough and Bedford to accommodate the 360s, thereby freeing up the Fasts for Intercity services?

 

[59CosG95]

But why is the track along that section of poor quality when it was only just re-laid in order to accommodate two slow lines (for the 360s)?

Also if I remember correctly, when the 360s were first launched, they waited for a fast Sheffield to pass it at Kettering, then went onto the Up Fast (110mph capable) - whereas now, they always use the Up Slow until Wellingborough (90mph capable).

Also, since they re-laid the lines, why did they not re-lay the Up (and Down) Slows between Wellingborough and Bedford to accommodate the 360s, thereby freeing up the Fasts for Intercity services?

There's a 20mph PSR in the Oakley area which severely hampers performance (on the Up Slow only).
AIUI work is planned, but I have no details of when that'll be.

 

[baz962]

But why is the track along that section of poor quality when it was only just re-laid in order to accommodate two slow lines (for the 360s)?

Also if I remember correctly, when the 360s were first launched, they waited for a fast Sheffield to pass it at Kettering, then went onto the Up Fast (110mph capable) - whereas now, they always use the Up Slow until Wellingborough (90mph capable).

Also, since they re-laid the lines, why did they not re-lay the Up (and Down) Slows between Wellingborough and Bedford to accommodate the 360s, thereby freeing up the Fasts for Intercity services?

360 units can't do 110 between Kettering and Wellingborough. It's only 100 on the fast for them. 110 between Bedford and Wellingborough only.

 

[fgwrich]

A quick passing through Eastleigh on my way back from the South Coast this afternoon showed an almost complete looking pair (360113/116) poking outside the paint shop. Nothing on RTT yet to suggest when they’ll be returning or when their replacements will be heading down to the works.

10 done, 11 to go.

 

[Dr Hoo]

There are no stored units. The ones not used are either faulty, being painted or away for modifications. We are now 1 year on from being introduced , so what we have now, is how it will be forever until something seriously changes.

One might hope that eventually faults would be mended, painting would be done and modifications implemented.

 

[spotify95]

360 units can't do 110 between Kettering and Wellingborough. It's only 100 on the fast for them. 110 between Bedford and Wellingborough only.

I thought that the 360s were able to do the "HST" speeds (just like the Meridians) because of their good acceleration and braking?

Though yes I am aware that the standard speed limit is 100.

But that begs the question: why go to the effort of doing the 110mph upgrades when BDM-STP (and STP-BDM) is limited to 100 (because of the wiring), KET-WEL is 90mph on the slows, and WEL-KET the 360s probably couldn't even reach 110 (even if they were allowed to do the HST speeds) because they have to slow down for a 30 when going from the Fasts to the Slows just south of KET?

 

[Merle Haggard]

Looking at the schedules for Corby - St Pancras there is the note 'timed at 100 m.p.h.' at the heading and no further comments, suggesting timing is 100 m.p.h. throughout.

Cl 350 schedules for example Birmingham - Euston show the sections which are 100 m.p.h. and those which are 110 m.p.h. reinforcing the suggestion that, if there's no note on the schedules about 110 m.p.h. running, then it doesn't happen.

 

[Hairy Bear]

One might hope that eventually faults would be mended, painting would be done and modifications implemented.

But the faults will keep cropping up, there repaired put back into service to be shortly replaced by another one with a fault, and on it goes.

I thought that the 360s were able to do the "HST" speeds (just like the Meridians) because of their good acceleration and braking?

Though yes I am aware that the standard speed limit is 100.

But that begs the question: why go to the effort of doing the 110mph upgrades when BDM-STP (and STP-BDM) is limited to 100 (because of the wiring), KET-WEL is 90mph on the slows, and WEL-KET the 360s probably couldn't even reach 110 (even if they were allowed to do the HST speeds) because they have to slow down for a 30 when going from the Fasts to the Slows just south of KET?

Quite capable of reaching 110, but yes we need to brake for the junction.

But why is the track along that section of poor quality when it was only just re-laid in order to accommodate two slow lines (for the 360s)?



Also, since they re-laid the lines, why did they not re-lay the Up (and Down) Slows between Wellingborough and Bedford to accommodate the 360s, thereby freeing up the Fasts for Intercity services?

Money !

 

[urpert]

A quick passing through Eastleigh on my way back from the South Coast this afternoon showed an almost complete looking pair (360113/116) poking outside the paint shop. Nothing on RTT yet to suggest when they’ll be returning or when their replacements will be heading down to the works.

10 done, 11 to go.

They look great with the different shape yellow panel. Quite 185-like.

 

[MML]

I'm still waiting for the long promised 12-car in the peaks. The 8-car units are getting quite busy now and with the post COVID practice of 1 person occupying the adjacent seat with a bag, half the seats are now unavailable.
Ps. I don't think there is any medical evidence that COVID does not cross a rucksack. Particularly when the occupant is sneezing and coughing.

 

[Hadders]

The 8-car units are getting quite busy now and with the post COVID practice of 1 person occupying the adjacent seat with a bag, half the seats are now unavailable.

Simply evict the bag from the empty seat. On the trains I get the practice of empty seats for covid reasons has disappeared.

 

[QSK19]

I'm still waiting for the long promised 12-car in the peaks.

Isn’t there some sort of union dispute as to 12-car running with non-gangwayed stock?

 

[LowLevel]

Isn’t there some sort of union dispute as to 12-car running with non-gangwayed stock?

That's been settled.

 

[QSK19]

That's been settled.

Ah that’s good news - one step closer to the ability to run 12-cars.

 

[westcoaster]

Ah that’s good news - one step closer to the ability to run 12-cars.

Not actually sure what was or was not accepted.

Class 360 Method of Working, East Midlands Railway

www.rmt.org.uk

Ballot reslut

 

[Bald Rick]

The 8-car units are getting quite busy now and with the post COVID practice of 1 person occupying the adjacent seat with a bag, half the seats are now unavailable.

then make the seats available, rather than sending out more trains that cost money to turn a wheel.

 

[bramling]

then make the seats available, rather than sending out more trains that cost money to turn a wheel.

I’m not sure the industry is going to get away with that attitude in the medium term. The response of “we’re running at full capacity” can’t really be used, especially in places where even those less well versed in railway operations will know they used to travel on a 12-car train or on a service which no longer runs.

There’s plenty of people who have found other ways to travel, and will only return if the railway ups its offering in terms of quality.

In my own view, the railway needs to find ways to turn those wheels for the least cost, so getting 12-car trains out as efficiently as possible (no nonsense like having to have a second train manager or whatever, for starters).

 

[Bald Rick]

I’m not sure the industry is going to get away with that attitude in the medium term. The response of “we’re running at full capacity” can’t really be used, especially in places where even those less well versed in railway operations will know they used to travel on a 12-car train or on a service which no longer runs.

There’s plenty of people who have found other ways to travel, and will only return if the railway ups its offering in terms of quality.

In my own view, the railway needs to find ways to turn those wheels for the least cost, so getting 12-car trains out as efficiently as possible (no nonsense like having to have a second train manager or whatever, for starters).

my point is that before we start putting extra trains into the system, let’s free up the seats that have bags on them first.