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Yup, Lothian be moving in permenantly and First be moving out…eventually.
It’s already a skeletal service, few edinburghs running, no wonder the competition is picking up significant loads during peak times.
Yup, Lothian be moving in permenantly and First be moving out…eventually.
A skeletal service is all they need to still drain Lothian to be fair. Both times I was in Livingston the queues for the 26 especially were a lot longer than any for Lothian buses. First will be fine especially if the cancellations are far less nowYup, Lothian be moving in permenantly and First be moving out…eventually.
It’s already a skeletal service, few edinburghs running, no wonder the competition is picking up significant loads during peak times.
A skeletal service is all they need to still drain Lothian to be fair. Both times I was in Livingston the queues for the 26 especially were a lot longer than any for Lothian buses. First will be fine especially if the cancellations are far less now
As long as they break even on what runs they are fine as any operator in any area would be. The pressure is more on Lothian to push First out than vice versa IMOI don't see how "First are fine" when they couldn't even run a Sunday service and are now reduced to this. Their competition has no trouble recruiting and passenger numbers are good.
Why are people spinning these cuts and woeful condemnations of what it's like to work at Livingston as some kind of win for them?
How many times will commentors say "With these cuts they'll be able to operate most of their registered services" (or words to that effect), "The cost savings will be a boon" etc etc until there's nothing left to cut?
Bright Bus is about the only thing going for that depot, their loadings are good but it seems to have grown the market rather than detract from their competition as both operators buses are full this week.
To be honest both have made cut backs recently. I think that they can exist alongside each other. The only thing is that First are less reliable but hopefully these changes will improve things.
To be fair I will always be balanced with West Lothian as I've literally never used First or Lothian Country in the area. Between Edinburgh Zoo and Princes Street in Edinburgh is my only use of any First services not in Stirling or Falkirk either under the South and Central Scotland areaThis is the only Sensible reply, and thankfully we still have some balance views around here.
Yes, that's probably true. But quite a change from a few years ago when the idea of living alongside each other was met with ridicule.This is the only Sensible reply, and thankfully we still have some balance views around here.
With all due respect, a driver can only drive one bus at a time, regardless of how many hours they work. Unless you're capable of simultaneously driving all services at all times, your own "visuals" are limited to what you can actually see.With all due respect when you drive a bus 5, sometimes 6 days a week, 45-55hrs every week, the Visuals are not the same as someone who “occasionally” sees one x25 or x22 that looks relatively busy
Then they are hiding it very well.To be brutally honest, both operators are failing in West Lothian. First have spent months and months trying to operate to a schedule that they cannot realistically hope to keep to given their current staffing levels and issues with recruitment and retention. Now that they are finally acting upon this and brining in a schedule which will (hopefully) at least bring some semblance of a reliable service, albeit at the price of reduced frequencies. Now would have been the prime moment for Lothian Country to consolidate their existing services and put the nail in First’s coffin once and for all. Instead, they are making cuts. Morale amongst the staff at LC is the lowest I have seen it. In my 3.5 years there I have lost count of the number of service changes that have been introduced. I get that with a new set up there is an element of trial and error involved, and that of course COVID has forced their hand in some instances, but in order to grow your customer base a level of consistency is required. People are less likely to show loyalty to an operator when they don’t know from one month to the next whether their service is going to see drastic changes. Some of the decisions that have been made are quite frankly baffling. The latest being the withdrawal of the 275 and rerouting of the 276 to make it far slower than services provided by First between Broxburn and Livingston, and a pointless extension to serve only a small part of Wester Inch. Either serve Wester Inch in its entirety or not at all. Send it the way the current 275 goes. Absolutely no benefit whatsoever of it going up to the Kaim Park roundabout and along Edinburgh Road. The 275 in it’s original form (Edinburgh Park to Whitburn) was a very good service and was busy. But it’s been chopped and changed that much to the point where it has become unviable and ultimately cut. It seems like people who have absolutely zero local knowledge are making these decisions, and it shows. The drivers who work these services day in day out, many of whom live in the area, are being paid lip service to but ultimately ignored. Apologies for the slightly long rant, and also if this is in the wrong thread feel free to move it to the Lothian one. But I thought it was relevant here to maybe make the point that whilst First may be struggling, things aren’t exactly as rosy as some would like us to believe on the other side either.
With all due respect, a driver can only drive one bus at a time, regardless of how many hours they work. Unless you're capable of simultaneously driving all services at all times, your own "visuals" are limited to what you can actually see.
This "you're not a driver, so you don't really know what you're talking about" attitude is rather condescending, to be honest.
I agree it’s not all fault free on either side. You only have to look at some of Lothian’s changes recently to see that they just don’t care either.To be brutally honest, both operators are failing in West Lothian. First have spent months and months trying to operate to a schedule that they cannot realistically hope to keep to given their current staffing levels and issues with recruitment and retention. Now that they are finally acting upon this and brining in a schedule which will (hopefully) at least bring some semblance of a reliable service, albeit at the price of reduced frequencies.
Now would have been the prime moment for Lothian Country to consolidate their existing services and put the nail in First’s coffin once and for all. Instead, they are making cuts. Morale amongst the staff at LC is the lowest I have seen it. In my 3.5 years there I have lost count of the number of service changes that have been introduced. I get that with a new set up there is an element of trial and error involved, and that of course COVID has forced their hand in some instances, but in order to grow your customer base a level of consistency is required.
People are less likely to show loyalty to an operator when they don’t know from one month to the next whether their service is going to see drastic changes. Some of the decisions that have been made are quite frankly baffling. The latest being the withdrawal of the 275 and rerouting of the 276 to make it far slower than services provided by First between Broxburn and Livingston, and a pointless extension to serve only a small part of Wester Inch. Either serve Wester Inch in its entirety or not at all. Send it the way the current 275 goes. Absolutely no benefit whatsoever of it going up to the Kaim Park roundabout and along Edinburgh Road.
The 275 in it’s original form (Edinburgh Park to Whitburn) was a very good service and was busy. But it’s been chopped and changed that much to the point where it has become unviable and ultimately cut. It seems like people who have absolutely zero local knowledge are making these decisions, and it shows. The drivers who work these services day in day out, many of whom live in the area, are being paid lip service to but ultimately ignored. Apologies for the slightly long rant, and also if this is in the wrong thread feel free to move it to the Lothian one. But I thought it was relevant here to maybe make the point that whilst First may be struggling, things aren’t exactly as rosy as some would like us to believe on the other side either.
The core of lothians business and priority is the city services, it’s that simple, of course it is and I’m also stipulating that it is Edinburgh City Councils priority as well, particularly now that Richard Hall is out of the picture, here lays the simple and only reasoning that I think LC may pull from West Lothian, to protect there city services.I agree it’s not all fault free on either side. You only have to look at some of Lothian’s changes recently to see that they just don’t care either.
Absolutely.When you live in West Lothian and also spend the majority of your life driving buses, speaking with drivers/ex drivers or managers of First you do have a wider perspective compared to "I was in X place waiting for a bus one afternoon and the queue at one stand was longer than another".
Living in Wester Inch myself I agree wholeheartedly with the points above, fortunately I'm right by the 276 stop and within walking distance of the main road.
Livingston. By drivers earning £3 an hour less than the ones who drove the exact same buses on the exact same route when it was previously operated by Central.Is the 43 operated from Livingston or still from Longstone?
As pointed out earlier it's Livingston and not Longstone. At introduction it was run from Central until Lothian Country separated from East Coast and established their Livingston depot to serve the West Lothian routes.Is the 43 operated from Livingston or still from Longstone?
Perhaps a topic for elsewhere but there's little reason for Edinburgh Council's priorities to influence what the company does in West Lothian.The core of lothians business and priority is the city services, it’s that simple, of course it is and I’m also stipulating that it is Edinburgh City Councils priority as well,
They hardly brought in any older vehicles. For their whole B7TL, B9TL and half their Enviro 400MMC fleet which left they brought in about 7 or 8 older buses the vast majority was ex Bristol StreetlitesOn the subject of the fleet? Wasn’t one of the reasons First swapped out some of its E400 MMCs and their Geminis for older vehicles to lower the value of the fleet. By lowering the value it reduces the amount of depreciation and therefore reduces the loss a wee bit. (As I say, “one of”, I am aware that they had other reasons like less need for Double Deckers and Glasgow needed Euro 6(?) vehicles).
Apologies. I genuinely thought it was more than that. What’s the rough value of a Streetlites compared with what left?They hardly brought in any older vehicles. For their whole B7TL, B9TL and half their Enviro 400MMC fleet which left they brought in about 7 or 8 older buses the vast majority was ex Bristol Streetlites
The Streetlites can be upgraded to Euro 6 whereas the B7TL's can only go as far as Euro 4. However, B9TL's can be upgraded to Euro 6 as well and I believe this happened once they were transferred from West Lothian to Glasgow, wither or not this was upon arrival or after a while of being there is beyond what I know.Apologies. I genuinely thought it was more than that. What’s the rough value of a Streetlites compared with what left?
Livingston has had 23 second hand Streetlights and 17 second hand Volvo single deckers lately. No new buses since 2016. Streetlights 63/14/64 plates. Volvos 55/06/09 plates.Apologies. I genuinely thought it was more than that. What’s the rough value of a Streetlites compared with what left?
Volvo's are 54/55/06/56/07/57/09 (might of missed some)Livingston has had 23 second hand Streetlights and 17 second hand Volvo single deckers lately. No new buses since 2016. Streetlights 63/14/64 plates. Volvos 55/06/09 plates.
Following the frequency increase there wasn't the need for so many deckers in the fleet anymore, so it made logical sense to swap them out for similar age single deck vehicles, it also meant an extra route in Glasgow could be converted to Euro 6 operation. With that said they then put most of the remaining E400MMCs on the 600 which was a mistake imo, they should've kept them unbranded and allowed them to be used across the network where required. They have recently started repainting the E400MMCs out of the 600 livery.On the subject of the fleet? Wasn’t one of the reasons First swapped out some of its E400 MMCs and their Geminis for older vehicles to lower the value of the fleet. By lowering the value it reduces the amount of depreciation and therefore reduces the loss a wee bit. (As I say, “one of”, I am aware that they had other reasons like less need for Double Deckers and Glasgow needed Euro 6(?) vehicles).
Also, in terms of passenger numbers, purely my observations as a passenger, they seem about even during the day, but peak time Lothian Country are comfortably winning now (I would imagine largely due to their much better reliability for commuters, they also pick up a lot of City passengers, they could benefit from going into Hermiston P&R I think). As I say purely from my observations of travelling and being around West Lothian most days.
The 07 & 57 have been in Livingston for ages and weren’t part of the swap for the Deckers. There is one 54 plate and all the 56 plates have now left the fleet to be trainers.Volvo's are 54/55/06/56/07/57/09 (might of missed some)
The Streetlites can be upgraded to Euro 6 whereas the B7TL's can only go as far as Euro 4. However, B9TL's can be upgraded to Euro 6 as well and I believe this happened once they were transferred from West Lothian to Glasgow, wither or not this was upon arrival or after a while of being there is beyond what I know.
The 63 plates I think were initially Euro 5 but have since been upgraded.I believe all Streetlites were/are Euro 6 from new with both Cummins or Daimler engines?
Only the 65 plates are Euro VI from new, the others are Euro V from new.I believe all Streetlites were/are Euro 6 from new with both Cummins or Daimler engines?
Only the 65 plates are Euro VI from new, the others are Euro V from new.