Rail strikes discussion

[Mojo]

They voted against taking action. Island Line employs the signallers over there, even though I believe the actual ownership is NR. The pay scales are a bit different to the mainland too.

I’m surprised they had a separate ballot to the rest of SWR given they have been the same Toc for a number of years now, even the second SWT franchise it was the same Toc, but see from the RMT website that they are, so that makes sense.

 

[Horizon22]

£23,800 we’ll paid ? Hmmm I think not.

If you're talking about signallers, not even a Grade 1 signaller gets that, and that £26K (2020 figures) is an absoute basic, with 0 hours of overtime all year and not taking into account any Sundays or nights.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jun 2022 ==

Is this strike NOT about pay alone, it is also about job losses ? Is it the media saying this is purely a pay rise strike, and is that also the opinion of many here too ?

It's about pay, job losses, T&Cs and also related a percieved impact on the safety of the railway of those job losses. Most of the media I've read has indeed stated this, although normally at the bottom of an rticle.

 

[DC1989]

If you're talking about signallers, not even a Grade 1 signaller gets that, and that £26K (2020 figures) is an absoute basic, with 0 hours of overtime all year and not taking into account any Sundays or nights.

Plus the great pension scheme/s which often aren't mentioned

 

[WelshBluebird]

If you're talking about signallers, not even a Grade 1 signaller gets that, and that £26K (2020 figures) is an absoute basic

So not a huge amount more (about £6k) than minimum wage for a full time employee.
I don't know about you, but if I was going into a safety critical job where I could be prosecuted if I made a mistake, I'd like to be paid significantly more than minimum wage, not just a bit more than it.

 

[JonathanH]

Plus the great pension scheme/s which often aren't mentioned

With the basic state pension offset the pension scheme is another part of the railway package whose value is skewed to higher earners.

 

[Efini92]

You get a slice. How much does it cost you to go to work? How much do you get paid? If the latter is more than the former you make a profit and as you say - profit is profit - so why are you demanding more?

It depends wether I use the Ferrari or not.

 

[Horizon22]

So only £6k more than minimum wage for a full time employee.

But the reality is the roster would likely require Sundays which easily adds another £2K onto the salary stated. I am not saying it is is a wonderful salary, merely stating the salary facts as documented. I believe NR is also 37h/week, so realistically more than £6K.

The average weekly wage is £604 a week, compared to this Grade 1 salary wage of £509 a week. So anything above Grade 3 (£632 a week) is immediately above average (and probably Grade 2 whilst taking into account allowances).

 

[Efini92]

Plus the great pension scheme/s which often aren't mentioned

It’s no local authority scheme.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Ladies and gents, I had hoped this thread might provide some useful discussion for people who need to get to work by rail next week, those who don’t have other options, who might get some pointers as to where emergency timetables may be published etc.
Anyone not a forum member will be forgiven for thinking they stumbled into a digital House of Commons

 

[Horizon22]

Ladies and gents, I had hoped this thread might provide some useful discussion for people who need to get to work by rail next week, those who don’t have other options, who might get some pointers as to where emergency timetables may be published etc.
Anyone not a forum member will be forgiven for thinking they stumbled into a digital House of Commons

You can see a vast array of threads regarding specific TOC's timetables here

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Apologies, I should have checked other threads

 

[Wivenswold]

I'm an occasional commuter, my wife has to work in London and can't bring her work home. This strike action will seriously disrupt home life next week.
But I would like to offer my support for those people who keep us safe when we travel and hope this strike action brings members of the RMT success.

 

[2021_Signaller]

Wrong. According to BoE experts, financial experts etc.

Ah. these would be the BoE experts and financial experts that proclaimed earlier this year that the inflation rise was 'transitory' or that we would have a recession if we voted leave and that have never predicted quarterly or annual growth correctly since time began or anticipated the crashes. I'm amazed anyone gives an ounce of consideration to whatever these goons say. It's always political what they say and invariably never true.

Brexit 4 Life.

 

[SYorksKent]

Apologies if this has been answered upthread, but is any of London Overground, specifically Penge West to Surrey Quays and back southbound towards Queens Road/Peckham Rye, likely to be running on the strike days (or indeed on the in-between days)?

 

[43096]

Profit is profit. Might not be as much as pre pandemic but it’s still a profit and it’s not unreasonable to want a slice.

You already get a slice. It's your wages. The profit is what is there at the end for the shareholders. Unlike you, shareholders take a risk as to whether they get the payout at the end of the year. If you want a part of the profit, buy shares.

No I wouldn’t even think about it. The fact is we’ve been told there’s no money, there’s no passengers etc… then they publish documents showing they have actually made millions.
We accepted it without question for the 2019, 2020 and 2021 pay awards. Now it’s time for them to put their hands in their pockets.

So on the one hand we have people on this thread saying the staff don't have influence on the revenue and profit of the business, on the other hand there are others who want some of the profits. If you have no influence on it, why do you think you're entitled to a cut of the profit?

 

[Bletchleyite]

You already get a slice. It's your wages. The profit is what is there at the end for the shareholders. Unlike you, shareholders take a risk as to whether they get the payout at the end of the year. If you want a part of the profit, buy shares.

To be fair, profit related bonuses of various kinds are common in private businesses, I don't see any sort of issue with rail staff wanting something similar. The idea of it is that everyone is then invested in the success of the business and working hard to make it more successful.

 

[43096]

To be fair, profit related bonuses of various kinds are common in private businesses, I don't see any sort of issue with rail staff wanting something similar. The idea of it is that everyone is then invested in the success of the business and working hard to make it more successful.

Agreed. But that bonus is normally there to incentivise people to deliver better results for the business, such that it is basically self-funding and also increases returns for shareholders. If the staff don't think they contribute to improved financial performance, then why incentivise them?

 

[RPI]

To be fair, profit related bonuses of various kinds are common in private businesses, I don't see any sort of issue with rail staff wanting something similar. The idea of it is that everyone is then invested in the success of the business and working hard to make it more successful.

First group have Buy as you earn as an option

 

[urbophile]

But the rail way has not been making record profits - quite the opposite. In the real world when a business is failing, people lose their jobs and pay freezes occur. Quite why the rail industry should be insulated from that I don't know.

because the purpose of public transport is not to make profits but to be just that, public transport.

 

[RPI]

because the purpose of public transport is not to make profits but to be just that, public transport.

But it has to contribute to its own running though, there can't be a big black hole for railway funding.

 

[Facing Back]

because the purpose of public transport is not to make profits but to be just that, public transport.

And as public transport, it should be run as efficiently as possible, maximising service and cost effectiveness. It is not a public service for it's employees, it is one for the travelling public and funded by them and the tax payers

 

[urbophile]

But it has to contribute to its own running though, there can't be a big black hole for railway funding.

that depends on national priorities, decided through the ballot box (unfortunately for the present).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jun 2022 ==

And as public transport, it should be run as efficiently as possible, maximising service and cost effectiveness. It is not a public service for it's employees, it is one for the travelling public and funded by them and the tax payers

I agree absolutely.

 

[yorksrob]

But the whole point of striking on the railways is to underscore its position as an essential service, and causing disruption to people who matter politically.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jun 2022 ==


MPs aren't paid enough anyway, but that's for another thread.

I'm not sure about that. The local buses round my way are on strike currently, and they're not renowned for the high proportion of ABC1's they carry.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I assume this post is somewhat facetious.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the salary for a full-time job - one requiring extensive knowledge and responsibility, no less - to be enough to comfortably live on, for example!

How do you work out a monetary value of a full-time job? Why should employee A from one TOC get a different salary from employee B from another TOC with both doing exactly the same job?

 

[Facing Back]

I agree absolutely.

Which means to me it should not be insulated from job cuts and pay freezes

 

[yorksrob]

Some (not all) are making very good profits - but they have no relationship with rail employees. So I struggle to see the relevance of the ROSCOs, unless you're suggesting they should make a 'charitable donation' to the RMT to distribute amongst its members?

I think that's more a case of if the government are so concerned about the cost of running the railway, why are we spending more leading trains than we would do buying them.

 

[Efini92]

You already get a slice. It's your wages. The profit is what is there at the end for the shareholders. Unlike you, shareholders take a risk as to whether they get the payout at the end of the year. If you want a part of the profit, buy shares.

So on the one hand we have people on this thread saying the staff don't have influence on the revenue and profit of the business, on the other hand there are others who want some of the profits. If you have no influence on it, why do you think you're entitled to a cut of the profit?

Wages are part of the overheads. Profits are what’s left at the end.
People saying they don’t influence revenue and profit has no relation to someone saying they want a slice of the profits…

 

[aquae39]

Is rail strike entitled to any delay repay? I mean more than 50% of the journey is likely to entitle to more than 30 minutes delay

 

[yorksrob]

Well, with subsidy so high, thank goodness NR still has a revenue stream from its extensive property portfolio of railway arches etc. Imagine if some half-wit government had forced them to flog it off to the private......... Oh.

 

[43096]

Wages are part of the overheads.

Not necessarily. In most businesses there’s usually more wages attributed to cost of sales than overheads.