Railway Industrial Disputes Mk2

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I couldn’t care one F if you resent what I say. It’s true. You’re trolling. About time you grew up. Go play with the DLR or the MRT in Singapore if you want driverless….

With respect, how can you expect for me to seriously consider what you are saying when you are swearing and being unpleasant? I’m not doing that to you, am I? And I’ll tell you respectfully why that is - because I know that arguing and being spiteful will get me nowhere; a sensible, calm and respectful discussion will, on the other hand. I appreciate it will be a long time before driverless trains take to most of the UK railways, and I’m sorry if you were offended by the suggestion that they will be there in the future.

I know you are. And your posts have been negative to those who work in the industry.

If you’ve taken it that way, then I genuinely apologise as I may not have been clear enough in my wording, but at the end of the day the only criticisms I have made come from a strong belief that consumer and colleagues should respect each other mutually.

For example, the strike should certainly not be affecting levels of customer service, nor should it allow for train staff to make disparaging remarks and inappropriate comments about their Train Operating Company and parent co. to members of the public.

 

[43066]

With respect, how can you expect for me to seriously consider what you are saying when you are swearing and being unpleasant? I’m not doing that to you, am I? And I’ll tell you respectfully why that is - because I know that arguing and being spiteful will get me nowhere; a sensible, calm and respectful discussion will, on the other hand. I appreciate it will be a long time before driverless trains take to most of the UK railways, and I’m sorry if you were offended by the suggestion that they will be there in the future.

With respect, you don’t know what you’re talking about, do you?

When are driverless trains coming in, please?

I’m looking forward to them: they’ll finally put me out of my misery…

 

[dctraindriver]

I have no problem with you not supporting the strikes, I think some of your posts can set things off, similar to a spark of flame in the height of a dry summer…. Maybe consider dialling it down a bit. It’s not just you btw…..

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

With respect, you don’t know what you’re talking about, do you?

When are driverless trains coming in, please?

It was quite clearly made in jest, stating that in a hundred years or whenever, things will likely be very different, and we have no way of knowing how the railways will be run. Of course I’m not so silly as to believe driverless trains are anywhere near the point of introduction.

 

[dctraindriver]

It was quite clearly made in jest, stating that in a hundred years or whenever, things will likely be very different, and we have no way of knowing how the railways will be run. Of course I’m not so silly as to believe driverless trains are anywhere near the point of introduction.

You may have felt it was in jest, however no doubt you’ve seen those posts from many primarily on twitter saying get rid of staff and let technology take over. Like I say a tinder box.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I have no problem with you not supporting the strikes, I think some of your posts can set things off, similar to a spark of flame in the height of a dry summer…. Maybe consider dialling it down a bit. It’s not just you btw…..

OK, that’s very fair and I am sorry if some posts have come across as inflammatory. I will therefore look back at my posts and genuinely ensure I take extra care not to use potentially inflammatory wording or remarks in future.

I believe I’ve been respectful and honest in my posting, but all the same it’s important to me not to make posting mistakes on here that I might have made back when first starting up on the forum. So you can be sure I’ll be more careful.

 

[43066]

OK, that’s very fair and I am sorry if some posts have come across as inflammatory. I will therefore look back at my posts and genuinely ensure I take extra care not to use potentially inflammatory wording or remarks in future.

It’s important to me not to make posting mistakes on here that I might have made back when first starting up on the forum. You can be sure I’ll be more careful.

You’re okay. You’re a Tory voter, aren’t you?

And you voted leave, right?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

You’re okay. You’re a Tory voter, aren’t you?

And you voted leave, right?

I have never said I have ever done either. I consider myself fairly politically neutral. I will happily expand on this response in more detail via PM if you wish, as I’m not keen to be responsible for sending the thread off topic.

 

[142blue]

I assume you’re referring to me here. I happen to be rail staff myself, and I’ve based my thoughts (there is no anger whatsoever), on what I have seen in person around me, as a passenger also, and on here. .

Are you really? All I see is a person trying to stir up trouble

 

[yorksrob]

I think that if there was one reform to Union legislation I would heartily support (and I say this as a union member myself) it's that they should be forced to go back to their membership more often. Six months seems a ridiculously long time to stretch out a mandate for industrial action.

 

[ComUtoR]

I think that if there was one reform to Union legislation I would heartily support (and I say this as a union member myself) it's that they should be forced to go back to their membership more often. Six months seems a ridiculously long time to stretch out a mandate for industrial action.

In some cases I'd agree. The problem is that you vote for your leaders to do exactly that. They need to lead. They have a mandate and they have known red lines in the sand.

It's their job to know if a deal would be accepted or not. Always going back after each deal is wasteful and resolves nothing. If anything, it can make people angry.

As an example. A deal with a DOO clause isn't likely to be successful and be rejected out of hand. I can't see a reason why something like that would be continually put to members because they know it would be rejected.

If a deal was significantly different, yes, it should always go back to the members.

 

[yorksrob]

In some cases I'd agree. The problem is that you vote for your leaders to do exactly that. They need to lead. They have a mandate and they have known red lines in the sand.

It's their job to know if a deal would be accepted or not. Always going back after each deal is wasteful and resolves nothing. If anything, it can make people angry.

As an example. A deal with a DOO clause isn't likely to be successful and be rejected out of hand. I can't see a reason why something like that would be continually put to members because they know it would be rejected.

If a deal was significantly different, yes, it should always go back to the members.

It should do, but would it necessarily. I'm not saying go back after every negotiation, but If I was involved in a long industrial dispute, I'd be uncomfortable at the prospect of potentially not being formally consulted for such a long length of time.

 

[Bald Rick]

If a deal was significantly different, yes, it should always go back to the members.

How about if a strike was called before a deal was offered, and then one is offered? That should go to members for a decision, surely.

 

[Aaron1]

This was discussed several pages ago now but I think it is fair to say that all these strikes will stop some people from returning to the railways, of course nearly everybody will make a train trip at one point in their life, but it's the frequency they use the railways, maybe a regular user of the railways will now turn into a semi regular, and a semi regular now turns into a once in a blue moon passenger as a result of these strikes and as a result of the inconvenience they cause and it contributes to a lack of trust and faith in the train companies.

I think staff with the attitude that "they will always come back" is a dangerous line to take and it does strike me as taking the passengers for granted, I'm sure not every rail worker does that but there are a few.

I am a supporter of a football club now in league 2, I go to away games with about 15-16 others, we always used to go by train, however season starts tomorrow and there are strikes, the now lack of faith and trust we have in the railway means we will be going by mini bus/coach more often now, which actually works out cheaper than the train, yes we lose some flexibility like it but the fact is we would prefer that now than be inconvenienced by the railways.

Shame really as the railways are losing hundreds and hundreds of pounds from each of us which contributes to thousands and thousands of pounds in total.

A tiny sum compared to normal railway revenue but surely we won't be the only ones, therefore lost revenue will soon add up

 

[TUC]

Picking up some of the comments above, I have seen some extraordinarily rude comments by some rail staff to members of the public on social media. These were not in response to rude comments by members of the public, who had made calm, reasonable statements that just happened to challenge the rationale for the strikes, or give proposals for how the rail industry needs to change. The tone of the responses back reflects very badly on those concerned.

 

[Bantamzen]

That’ll teach me to ask a silly question!

Sorry, I saw you'd left the door ajar so I just had to crash through....

It probably is pretty awful. I’m mainly there because I like trains. I’ve always wanted to drive trains for a living and now I do. Therefore I’m winning. That’s where it begins and ends for me, really.

Similarly I can say hand on heart that some parts of the CS are bloody awful, and I often see it first hand. If I had a quid for every time I saw something stupid going on here, well let's just say I'd be a few thousand miles away on my yacht. Maybe if my numbers come in on the EuroMillions tonight I'll come back and give examples. But for now it's more than my pension is worth!!

The money is decent enough but trust me if I’d wanted to get rich I’d have stayed in my previous career. Precisely zero regrets - albeit the atmosphere is a little toxic at the moment and I’m looking forward to the current IR situation being resolved in due course.

Its not quite the same for me, I do get to play with computer code & I've enjoyed doing that since 1983! (Yes I am that old, I was 13 then). But the endgame is still looking good for me, the day I pass 60 its a two fingered salute to the CS, draw my pension & go work in the local Co-op to top it up!

It was happening before covid, LNER for instance.

Yeah the writing on the wall for the franchise system has been on the wall for a long time. And for the East Coast ones franchise woes are compounded by the rather weak infrastructure that sees the wires wobble when the sun comes out for a bit, or if it rains heavily, or it clouds over a bit..... Seriously I imagine for drivers on that route its a daily concern as to when your unit is going to bring them down again. And in sync with how public sector areas work, the problems of trying to do things a bit on the cheaper side lead to fear of any new projects, so new wiring projects take up billions more and span over decades (Trans-Pennine route, I'm looking at you!).

Its one giant clusterf.......

That explains it. Do you have a whippet?

Eeeehh, t'bloody stereotyping!! Bloody shandy drinking Southerner!! Never had a whippet, or a flat cap in my life, although I do sing "On Ilkley Moor Baht'at" when out walking, especially on Ilkley Moor which is just up t'road from me. And yes I am tight with money & use the expression "'Ow Much" whenever I buy beer down south.....

 

[Drogba11CFC]

This was discussed several pages ago now but I think it is fair to say that all these strikes will stop some people from returning to the railways, of course nearly everybody will make a train trip at one point in their life, but it's the frequency they use the railways, maybe a regular user of the railways will now turn into a semi regular, and a semi regular now turns into a once in a blue moon passenger as a result of these strikes and as a result of the inconvenience they cause and it contributes to a lack of trust and faith in the train companies.

I think staff with the attitude that "they will always come back" is a dangerous line to take and it does strike me as taking the passengers for granted, I'm sure not every rail worker does that but there are a few.

I am a supporter of a football club now in league 2, I go to away games with about 15-16 others, we always used to go by train, however season starts tomorrow and there are strikes, the now lack of faith and trust we have in the railway means we will be going by mini bus/coach more often now, which actually works out cheaper than the train, yes we lose some flexibility like it but the fact is we would prefer that now than be inconvenienced by the railways.

Shame really as the railways are losing hundreds and hundreds of pounds from each of us which contributes to thousands and thousands of pounds in total.

A tiny sum compared to normal railway revenue but surely we won't be the only ones, therefore lost revenue will soon add up

Same here only in the Southern League Premier. I have informed the chairman that we may need additional coaches to circumvent the RMT/ASLEF...I know one supporter who would have responded "no" in the most smug manner possible.

 

[jupiter]

Does anyone have a feeling for how badly service might be disrupted on Monday the 1st of August after the strikes tomorrow (Saturday)? Specific I’m looking at taking a trip from Dorset down to Penzance on a Freedom of the Southwest rover on Monday the 1st.

Was wondering whether I need to target trains (rather than catch them at random) and book seats?

 

[Watershed]

Does anyone have a feeling for how badly service might be disrupted on Monday the 1st of August after the strikes tomorrow (Saturday)? Specific I’m looking at taking a trip from Dorset down to Penzance on a Freedom of the Southwest rover on Monday the 1st.

Was wondering whether I need to target trains (rather than catch them at random) and book seats?

Don't think there will be any impact. Generally it's just meant a later startup the following day. Some TOCs have implemented a Sunday timetable on the "day after" as it's easier than rewriting diagrams for a later startup. But no impact beyond that.

 

[Bantamzen]

This was discussed several pages ago now but I think it is fair to say that all these strikes will stop some people from returning to the railways, of course nearly everybody will make a train trip at one point in their life, but it's the frequency they use the railways, maybe a regular user of the railways will now turn into a semi regular, and a semi regular now turns into a once in a blue moon passenger as a result of these strikes and as a result of the inconvenience they cause and it contributes to a lack of trust and faith in the train companies.

I think staff with the attitude that "they will always come back" is a dangerous line to take and it does strike me as taking the passengers for granted, I'm sure not every rail worker does that but there are a few.

I am a supporter of a football club now in league 2, I go to away games with about 15-16 others, we always used to go by train, however season starts tomorrow and there are strikes, the now lack of faith and trust we have in the railway means we will be going by mini bus/coach more often now, which actually works out cheaper than the train, yes we lose some flexibility like it but the fact is we would prefer that now than be inconvenienced by the railways.

Shame really as the railways are losing hundreds and hundreds of pounds from each of us which contributes to thousands and thousands of pounds in total.

A tiny sum compared to normal railway revenue but surely we won't be the only ones, therefore lost revenue will soon add up

Another L2 team supporter here (can you guess who?), and I must admit my first thought for tomorrow's opener at home was if Northern were on strike the traffic would be horrendous, so I'd need to get an early bus to ensure that I didn't miss on on pre-match drinks (a must!). And I will be weighing up options for any away games, and the railways may not be my first choice any more. I know one local supporters club has already started getting quotes from their current & other coach companies to deal with future gameday strikes. And if enough people take them up, they may well stay as it sometimes can be more fun going with a load of fans than shoehorning onto trains and praying that they'll run to schedule!

 

[LowLevel]

Picking up some of the comments above, I have seen some extraordinarily rude comments by some rail staff to members of the public on social media. These were not in response to rude comments by members of the public, who had made calm, reasonable statements that just happened to challenge the rationale for the strikes, or give proposals for how the rail industry needs to change. The tone of the responses back reflects very badly on those concerned.

With respect though, your livelihood isn't often a thing to participate in calm, reasoned debate over when others are making comments on it.

It is a particularly stressful and unhappy time for a lot of people and expecting all of them to be calm and reasonable is expecting a bit much.

 

[306024]

Don't think there will be any impact. Generally it's just meant a later startup the following day. Some TOCs have implemented a Sunday timetable on the "day after" as it's easier than rewriting diagrams for a later startup. But no impact beyond that.

Perhaps so, but not so easy for the poor roster clerk who now has to match Sunday diagrams to a Monday to Friday roster throughout the day.

 

[SJN]

Picking up some of the comments above, I have seen some extraordinarily rude comments by some rail staff to members of the public on social media. These were not in response to rude comments by members of the public, who had made calm, reasonable statements that just happened to challenge the rationale for the strikes, or give proposals for how the rail industry needs to change. The tone of the responses back reflects very badly on those concerned.

A lot of people who don’t work for the railway have no idea how it works, so telling people who do how it needs to change doesn’t always come over well. They read the papers, which are often wrong or twisted and think they know it all and then dictate how it should be. Then people get annoyed.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

With respect though, your livelihood isn't often a thing to participate in calm, reasoned debate over when others are making comments on it.

It is a particularly stressful and unhappy time for a lot of people and expecting all of them to be calm and reasonable is expecting a bit much.

That is because the industrial action being taken by the union membership does not just affect the employers, but members of the general public who have not been the cause of the problem but still are targeted by this industrial action.

 

[Bantamzen]

With respect though, your livelihood isn't often a thing to participate in calm, reasoned debate over when others are making comments on it.

It is a particularly stressful and unhappy time for a lot of people and expecting all of them to be calm and reasonable is expecting a bit much.

Its never easy to be calm when there are stresses over finances or conditions, or even if your job is under threat. However we all have to remember we live in the era of social media. It doesn't take much to trigger people into taking to social media these days, and all it takes are a few staff being unhappy with the punters and it can explode on the Twitter-verse or similar platform & before you know it the media run with it, then public opinion can swing. People's views can quickly go from "Yeah I support them in their fight for better pay" to "Those grumpy so & sos don't deserve a rise, they get too much anyway" in a moment these days.

And make no mistake, this is exactly what the government are hoping for!

 

[LowLevel]

That is because the industrial action being taken by the union membership does not just affect the employers, but members of the general public who have not been the cause of the problem but still are targeted by this industrial action.

I am well aware of that, though others are just interested commentators.

Its never easy to be calm when there are stresses over finances or conditions, or even if your job is under threat. However we all have to remember we live in the era of social media. It doesn't take much to trigger people into taking to social media these days, and all it takes are a few staff being unhappy with the punters and it can explode on the Twitter-verse or similar platform & before you know it the media run with it, then public opinion can swing. People's views can quickly go from "Yeah I support them in their fight for better pay" to "Those grumpy so & sos don't deserve a rise, they get too much anyway" in a moment these days.

And make no mistake, this is exactly what the government are hoping for!

Which is all very rational, however some people at the moment are feeling far from rational with it all. Emotions are very high.

 

[Andypandy1968]

That is because the industrial action being taken by the union membership does not just affect the employers, but members of the general public who have not been the cause of the problem but still are targeted by this industrial action.

Errr that is exactly the point

 

[WelshBluebird]

but members of the general public who have not been the cause of the problem

I mean the general public voted for a Tory government, so in an indirect way they are the cause of the problem!

 

[Annetts key]

Our Ref: BR6/10/1

29 July 2022

Dear RMT Member

DEFEND JOBS, PAY AND CONDITIONS - NETWORK RAIL

Network Rail issued a statement to staff yesterday that there is an unconditional pay offer available. This is a deception on the staff and is entirely untrue. The offer they have made is entirely conditional on mass redundancies and changes to conditions and working practices that are not yet worked through and are subject to discussions with the trade unions.

In tandem to this deception on pay, the company have started a formal consultation on 1900 redundancies, have withdrawn their offer of no compulsory redundancies and will impose detrimental working practices across the maintenance network.

Rather than deceiving the staff about what they are actually proposing, the company now needs to get back round the table with RMT and work to resolve the issues in the dispute including their proposals for change and the union's demands for job security and a decent pay rise.

Finally, I have been informed by TSSA and Unite that both have withdrawn their referendums on this matter.
Yours sincerely,

Michael Lynch
General Secretary

Click here for the link

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I mean the general public voted for a Tory government, so in an indirect way they are the cause of the problem!

I think your reasoning has gone astray, as there will also be those who voted Labour or other parties who suffer. Does your blame and shame tactic apply to those non-Conservative Party voters. At the time of the last General Election, how many TOC had their franchises terminated?

Don't forget, it was the Labour Party who in their "wisdom" put the dreaded Corbyn as their next Prime Ministerial candidate, which caused their defeat at the last General Election.