I imagin it will be through the station. Sadly, unless the stupid time restriction on an all-line rover is scrapped, I dont think any of us will be able to do it to find out.
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East Coast Eureka clockface timetable May 2011
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I imagin it will be through the station. Sadly, unless the stupid time restriction on an all-line rover is scrapped, I dont think any of us will be able to do it to find out.
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DaveNewcastle
Established Member
Eh? How not?
I usually go for the 7:20 off Newcastle, but if aiming to be in central London for 10 I'll take the 7:02. After May 20th that will simply become the 5:40 off Edinburgh leaing Newcastle at 7:00 so very likely I'll be travelling on that one.
No. 30 through the station and varying max speeds through the avoider down to 20mph at its slowest.
But as has been discussed on here before, using the York avoider actually blocks more lines than using a platform.
Failed Unit
Established Member
I know in many instances it is an improvement, some journeys are slower with less stops than before. The padding into Waverley has broken a lot of existing connections. 1100 ex Kings cross a casing point.
My biggest disappointment is EMT local services which have not been optimised for the new timetable. I cant see any reason why the joint line and Newark - Grimsby could not have become clockface as well. The HST stood at Newark doesn't help however as the units can't arrive into platform 3 until it is gone. Generally Lincoln gets a double kick in the guts, no direct trains and a reduction in the local service.
Saturday and Sunday are brilliant improvements from the personal point of view. Can't see Berwick liking some of the gaps Southbound.
My biggest disappointment is EMT local services which have not been optimised for the new timetable. I cant see any reason why the joint line and Newark - Grimsby could not have become clockface as well. The HST stood at Newark doesn't help however as the units can't arrive into platform 3 until it is gone. Generally Lincoln gets a double kick in the guts, no direct trains and a reduction in the local service.
Saturday and Sunday are brilliant improvements from the personal point of view. Can't see Berwick liking some of the gaps Southbound.
Sorry. What I mean is, All-line rovers are now time restricted on East Coast services arriving in London before 1000. The 0540 Ed-KX arrives at 0940.
Though not everyone will have an all-line rover.
Of course, we will be able to do, but only after paying for a Standard Open Return I expect.
One thing I'd like to know to see if I can get some new line in. There are a few freights that can pass straight through the station so the Flying Scotsman might just do that.
NightatLaira
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I tried searching... but please explain
Someone once told me southbound it's a no-brainer but northbound it can save a bit of time [something to do with crossing over to/from the Doncaster lines?]
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
Or a couple of Advances. If you're quick, the cheapest are £15 each way. They're cheap as chips. I certainly wouldn't travel as much as I do if I had to pay hundreds for an ALR!!!
Railjet
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Interesting to see the up Skipton is a HST.
MidnightFlyer
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Is there a return leg of the 0540 EBD-NCl-KGX? Can't see it? I thought there was, very interesting timetable nonetheless!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Premier Inn's are about £20-30 a night if booked far enough in advance
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Premier Inn's are about £20-30 a night if booked far enough in advance
Apparently the availability of the cheap Advance tickets will be altered, as they are now, to meet the new timetable and possible demand. I doubt you'll get a £15 Advance on the 0540.
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
Down fasts (north bound) would have to crossover to the Leeds lines 5 miles south, on the crossovers at Colton Jn. That occupies the Down Main, Up Leeds and Down Leeds. After passing the station on the avoider, a Down train would then be blocking the Down Slow at Skelton Junction as it crossed back over to the Down Fast.I tried searching... but please explain
Someone once told me southbound it's a no-brainer but northbound it can save a bit of time [something to do with crossing over to/from the Doncaster lines?]
Up Fasts (south bound) would block the Down Fast at Skelton Jn as well as the Harrogate line and any other access to the station from the northbound Down Slow. South of York, when rejoining the mainlines, the avoider puts you the Up Leeds all the way back to Colton Jn., so you'd block that, and access to the station from the Down Leeds. Then, at Colton Jn., still on the Up Leeds, you'd block the Down Main crossing over to the Up Main.
When Holgate Junction is remodeled with a forth running line (eventually!), then rather than making use of the avoiders simpler, their use will simply have another running line to cross !
That's depressing!
I'm sure there'll still be plenty at other price tiers (such as £30 - £44) so great crisis, but that is third item of 'good news' in todays announcement from EC which is bad news for me. (The others are 1. "customers will also see a new, improved on-board service from May" meaning they get rid of all the chefs' jobs, abandon the restaurant cars, and, (unconfirmed) get rid of some trolley services. and 2. less calls at Berwick)
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Well, Scarborough to Peterborough & Stevenage is much longer now on Saturdays.
Currently a good connection at York, not in the new timetable.
50 min wait for the next EC service to Peterborough for FCC onwards.
If you go via Leeds, the train arrives at Scarborough 1 min before the KX train leaves so a 60 minute wait for Train to SVG!
Have to hope that the Hull Trains services are well timed.
Does anyone know the HT times after 23 May?
Currently a good connection at York, not in the new timetable.
50 min wait for the next EC service to Peterborough for FCC onwards.
If you go via Leeds, the train arrives at Scarborough 1 min before the KX train leaves so a 60 minute wait for Train to SVG!
Have to hope that the Hull Trains services are well timed.
Does anyone know the HT times after 23 May?
Couldn't there be a later service to Edinburgh? A 20:00 service would still get in before 1 AM and I think would be used. Last train from Edinburgh to London is also a bit early at 18:30. Newcastle even gets a service leaving London at 22:00.
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Yeah, I was very disappointed with that. The weekday service to/from Stevenage doesn't seem to be too different, really (some of it is negative, some positive). Okay, there are less trains north of York and they finish earlier, however, there are more East Coast trains overall and they are at more evenly spaced intervals (at least once per hour, start to finish). I don't think much of the Newark terminators, but I don't think anybody does. They may come in handy, but I haven't looked at the onward connections from north of Peterborough yet.
NightatLaira
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This has always puzzled me too - why there are so many late night arrivals at Newcastle, and why everything stops at Edinburgh so early... it can't just be for the purposes of crew movements - Craigentinny's an East Coast depot as well as Heaton.
Heaton is a Northern Depot.
NightatLaira
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But there's always GC / EC trains in the sheds there... A bit like how Neville Hill is technically an EMT depot but there's regularly other TOC's trains there. Same with Craigentinny which is EC / XC
swt_passenger
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Another problem with sending a later last train to Edinburgh is that you might not want it to be in Edinburgh the next morning, you might need it to start a service from Newcastle or somewhere.
There's also the possibility there isn't enough depot space at Craigentinny - allegedly that's partly why there is still a Glsgow service...
It's not really depot space that's a problem, but the workload the depot would face each night. When they wanted to cancel all Glasgow services they found they would still have to send a set/s to Glasgow for servicing overnight.
The changes to catering are being put in place to encourage more people to travel First Class. It has the potential to be a success. Something that has hindered 'East Coast' since GNER is the apparent unwillingness for change within the company. Lets be honest First Class right now is nothing more than glorified Standard Class.
The number of Chef's jobs being lost is small, and there are Chef's on the route who are spare, they have no booked train. 90% of the time these Chefs are going out as CSA's. Some of these Chefs are working a complete 12 week cycle with no Chef work onboard.
I've always proclaimed the problem with onboard catering is waste, sadly the waste is driving the need to change things. The new director for onboard services has now been naming and shaming the trains and managers who have high waste in a bid to get people to waken up. You wouldn't believe how high the waste is for those at the top of the shame list!
The changes to catering are being put in place to encourage more people to travel First Class. It has the potential to be a success. Something that has hindered 'East Coast' since GNER is the apparent unwillingness for change within the company. Lets be honest First Class right now is nothing more than glorified Standard Class.
The number of Chef's jobs being lost is small, and there are Chef's on the route who are spare, they have no booked train. 90% of the time these Chefs are going out as CSA's. Some of these Chefs are working a complete 12 week cycle with no Chef work onboard.
I've always proclaimed the problem with onboard catering is waste, sadly the waste is driving the need to change things. The new director for onboard services has now been naming and shaming the trains and managers who have high waste in a bid to get people to waken up. You wouldn't believe how high the waste is for those at the top of the shame list!
Are we running a railway for the passengers or for the convenience of the TOC? There's nothing to stop a later service to Edinbrugh running ECS back to Newcastle if it really couldn't stay at Edinburgh. There should also be a later servic to London from Edinburgh 18:30 is too early.
Failed Unit
Established Member
You know the answer to that passengers are an operational inconvenience to running a railway
. I think it is a pity that the haven't tried to run som earlier fast services. A 6am on the interval timetable would give Newcastle a pre 9am arrival from London and a 1025 into Edinburgh. It is one of those things the demand has never got tested but if they are trying to get airlines Market share they should also know passengers travel north. Rail has never attempted to break into the London - north business travel Market. A 5am service to Edinburgh arriving at 925 could have demand if anyone is prepared to try it. Likewise going south both the 1730 and 1830 are very slow.
Interesting to see HSTs on the 1700 and 1800 services. If east coast wants more first class passengers these should really be 91s as first is often full on these anyway. I guess getting the HSTs on the 1530 and 1900 was probably to difficult to diagram.
I note that the 1730 Sunday HUL-KGX has been axed in favour of the Harrogate. Shame really, but probably not the end of the world as there were a lot of services between Hull and King's Cross on Sunday afternoons - pretty much every hour between 4 and 6pm!
It's a shame that on Saturdays none of the fast up or down services between KX and EDI calls at Peterborough, not even the few that do on a weekday. Yet I'd have thought that minimizing overall journey time should count for less at weekends, when the primary use is for leisure travel.
Also, I note that the 10 minute padding into the terminal station is retained, although Network Rail continue to claim otherwise. Must keep the punctuality figures up - oh, and the Directors' bonuses!
Also, I note that the 10 minute padding into the terminal station is retained, although Network Rail continue to claim otherwise. Must keep the punctuality figures up - oh, and the Directors' bonuses!
Failed Unit
Established Member
But the service to Peterborough is hourly! I think apart from Grantham this is the best weekend service ever. Even for Peterborough the times at the weekend are about the same as now. The fast weekend service will be a big plus for leisure.
EC don't use the sheds at Heaton, only the stabling roads and refuelling lines. GC and Northern are the only two who actually do use the sheds. AFIAA there is no maintenance done to EC trains at Heaton.
I'm sure some of you have never used the last services to/from Edinburgh. There really isn't demand for some of the services you're talking about.
The 1700 has been booked as a HST for sometime now. There's also a very small difference in the number of seats on a HST & a MK4. I'm pretty sure a HST has more seats than a MK4 set.
The 1700 has been booked as a HST for sometime now. There's also a very small difference in the number of seats on a HST & a MK4. I'm pretty sure a HST has more seats than a MK4 set.
Failed Unit
Established Member
True north of Newcastle both the 1700 and 1800 are not heavily loaded just comfortable. On both the 1700 and 1800 I normally get something to eat in and don't return to my seat until York in 1st just because it is well loaded. York loses a lot of FC passengers. It is hard to tell if the fact the restaurants seats can be used for normal passengers if enough seats will be available. I guess if enough people want FC to require 3x coaches east coast will move the sets around. Likewise the later trains may spread the demand.
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
What can I say! There's often no opportunity for a guard on the 20:00 ex EDB to get any further with a ticket inspection than coach F by the time its reached Dunbar!
Okay, it empties considerably through Northumberland, but I have to comment on the demand through southern Scotland - they're crammed standing in the vestibules in the holiday season!
As for later services, I've always argued that there may not be a high volume demand late at night, but it is an important, even strategic service. To have no rail transport at all leaving south-east out of Edinburgh for 2 whole hours is an impediment to the communities in the south-east of scotland. To have no service to those communities and through to Berwick leaving after 9pm is a similar impediment to the economies of those areas (most other cities have rail travel to their rural catchment after 9pm. Edinburgh is particularly badly linked to Southern Scotland).
[I realise that this is as much a strategic and political matter and not simply one of meeting high volume passenger demand, but there is no benefit in allowing the economy and cultural life in the Borders to decline in this way!]
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