Southern Class 313 withdrawal/storage/scrapping updates

[03_179]

They come to Selhurst for Overhaul, the wheel lathe, occasional other work. Not daily.

 

[TST2022]

Do they occur on weekdays or weekends? Any standard Headcodes used?

Usually either 5B or 5Z ... Haven't seen one on Saturdays although seen lots on Sundays

 

[4BEP]

Considering that all of the 455s are withdrawn from the timetable change i think they will need all of the 313s in service even more than now so that more of the 377s are available to replace the 455s in the Greater London area. Once the 377/5 from SE and 387/1 from GN start coming to Southern than they can start thinking about withdrawing the 313s from service. But i think until then all of the 313s will be needed.

Going off line slightly, what about moving some 701s from SW as the reduction in services there will provide a surplus.

 

[physics34]

If only revenue was also back at 100% to cover the costs instead of that magic money tree everyone seems to think exists.

The former Souther Region has always relied on peak revenues to cover the off-peak costs.



That’s because we have less passengers overall than we used to have so less income to cover costs.

Chicken or egg. Use taxpayers money. You need to entice people back to the Railway. Cutting services wont help. The trend to work from home does generally look like its going to continue, but they have to make sure some of this isnt because commuting to work isnt value for money or time.

 

[pompeyfan]

Going off line slightly, what about moving some 701s from SW as the reduction in services there will provide a surplus.

It would have to be worth it with the amount of units you’re sending over. Micro fleets are frowned upon because of the amount of people that requiring training. Even 707s (30 units) was frowned upon. You’d probably be looking at 40 units (400 carriages) to make it worth while, which wouldn’t leave SWR with enough.

 

[TST2022]

9 car 313s ran today

Train 5B29 Selhurst T&R.S.M.D to Lovers Walk T&R.S.M.D | Rail Record

Live train times and live updates for Train 5B29 Selhurst T&R.S.M.D to Lovers Walk T&R.S.M.D | Rail Record

old.rail-record.co.uk

 

[Islineclear3_1]

9 car 313s ran today

Train 5B29 Selhurst T&R.S.M.D to Lovers Walk T&R.S.M.D | Rail Record

Live train times and live updates for Train 5B29 Selhurst T&R.S.M.D to Lovers Walk T&R.S.M.D | Rail Record

old.rail-record.co.uk

Anyone know the consist please?

 

[TST2022]

Anyone know the consist please?

Not a clue.... Just been told by a reliable source it was

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Anyone know the consist please?

Only thing showing is 313204.

 

[Fen Enthusiast]

Does anyone know what services are diagrammed as 313's next Saturday 22/10/2022?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Does anyone know what services are diagrammed as 313's next Saturday 22/10/2022?

If Brighton are playing away (Man U) then it is likely that 313's will run on the Seaford branch all day.

There are engineering works between Angmering and Littlehampton. Usually there are 313s running Littlehampton-Portsmouth & Southsea but because of the works, I don't know whether they will run or start/terminate at Barnham or Bognor Regis instead

Can anyone tell me when the destination blinds were changed to PIS matrix please? I have in my mind 2011

Is there anywhere on the forum the rough dates the ex-Silverlink 313's went to Wolverton for "Southernisation" and dates they returned? I've tried the forum search but turning up nothing - or I'm not inputting the correct search term

 

[Fen Enthusiast]

If Brighton are playing away (Man U) then it is likely that 313's will run on the Seaford branch all day.

There are engineering works between Angmering and Littlehampton. Usually there are 313s running Littlehampton-Portsmouth & Southsea but because of the works, I don't know whether they will run or start/terminate at Barnham or Bognor Regis instead

Can anyone tell me when the destination blinds were changed to PIS matrix please? I have in my mind 2011

Is there anywhere on the forum the rough dates the ex-Silverlink 313's went to Wolverton for "Southernisation" and dates they returned? I've tried the forum search but turning up nothing - or I'm not inputting the correct search term

Thanks. Could you possibly recommend where would be best to travel to from London Victoria to catch one? I'm not familiar with the Southern region so I'm not sure where would be best to go .

 

[JonathanH]

Is there anywhere on the forum the rough dates the ex-Silverlink 313's went to Wolverton for "Southernisation" and dates they returned? I've tried the forum search but turning up nothing - or I'm not inputting the correct search term

There is a bit in this thread.

Class 313 on southern test.

Hi, today on my way back from college, around 3.30, i saw a 313 going over the London Road viaduct. Still in ex-silverlink, with all the London Overground stuff removed. Didnt manage to catch the number or anything, as i was on ground level :)

www.railforums.co.uk

Could you possibly recommend where would be best to travel to from London Victoria to catch one? I'm not familiar with the Southern region so I'm not sure where would be best to go .

Best place to pick up one going to Portsmouth is Barnham, although going in and out of Littlehampton is not a problem.

Best place to pick up one going to Seaford is Brighton (or Lewes).

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Thanks. Could you possibly recommend where would be best to travel to from London Victoria to catch one? I'm not familiar with the Southern region so I'm not sure where would be best to go .

You will get all the West Coastway ones at Barnham although on a Saturday, there are only 4 diagrams. You can catch a fast Southampton or Portsmouth Harbour (via Horsham) from Victoria and alight at Barnham

Generally, on the West Coastway, a 313 unit will work Littlehampton-Portsmouth & Southsea and return; Littlehampton to Bognor Regis, Bognor Regis to Barnham and return; Bognor Regis to Littlehampton; Littlehampton to Portsmouth & Southsea etc.

There is also a Brighton - Hove shuttle on a Saturday which works all day

On the East Coastway, there are generally only 3 diagrams on a Saturday working Brighton - Seafords

I've done loads of trips of late with a Southern Daysave where you can travel off-peak for about £22 throughout the entire Southern network but you can't travel on the red Victoria-Gatwick-Brighton expresses.

 

[Fen Enthusiast]

I've done loads of trips of late with a Southern Daysave where you can travel off-peak for about £22 throughout the entire Southern network but you can't travel on the red Victoria-Gatwick-Brighton expresses.

That's what I've gone and brought.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

There is a bit in this thread.

Class 313 on southern test.

Hi, today on my way back from college, around 3.30, i saw a 313 going over the London Road viaduct. Still in ex-silverlink, with all the London Overground stuff removed. Didnt manage to catch the number or anything, as i was on ground level :)

www.railforums.co.uk

Yes I've seen that, thanks

 

[WesternLancer]

Yep - had a good day on 313s yesterday (sat 15th oct) -
Good views of sets 'on shed' at Brighton, inc from the station platform ends, south end of the shed (313220 & 313203), as well as on approach from London direction (numbers of 1 or 2 unit(s) at north end of shed not noted). I then managed:

- 313 Brighton to Seaford (dep Brighton 11.11) and return (dep Seaford 11.55) - 313207
- B'ton to Hove on the Hove 313 Shuttle (dep Brighton 12.39) - 313202
Then a 377 interlude to Littlehampton (a welcome table to enjoy my lunch off )
- Then 313204 to Bognor and rtn as far as Barnham (14.09 from Littlehampton, arr Bognor 14.30. Then dept Bognor 14.36)
<another, 313213, I noted was parked in Bognor platform 3 at this time>
- Then 313201 from Barnham (service started at Littlehampton - 14.55 ex L'Hampton) to Portsmouth & Southsea (BR Blue and Grey livery 313201 turned up on this one, which was a treat to see, paintwork looking very smart) - <NB I noted 313211 was on the 13.55 from L'Hampton to Portsmouth & Southsea>
- Then 313201 back from Portsmouth & Southsea to Littlehampton (dep Portsmouth and Southsea 15.57).

So I reckon I took a 313 on all the routes they were operating on yesterday, in good weather, with great views of the south downs / sea etc - you need to be in the centre car with the reasonably well aligned windows next to the cycle storage area to make the best of the views really

Had I started earlier and been able to finish later I think I'd have had more time enjoy station pause times and probably sampled more units.

Bognor and Littehampton are nice places for photos given the prominent remaining semaphore signals at those locations.

Station toilets are a bit of a necessity on such a jaunt I have to say! (bit of nuisance at Brighton as these are outside the barrier line if you need to make a quick change there).

What's a real shame is the grotty state southern have let the interiors get into. Far worse than other units in their fleet which suggests to me they are neglected in terms of thorough interior cleans. I recall when they were refurbed on transfer to southern and then I thought the interior renovation at the time was of really v good quality. But they are grotty now, even 313201 despite the good appearance of its exterior. This is a shame.

Atmospheric moments at signal stops in open countryside with the windows open and the only sound being birdsong and the sound of the wind - reminded me of regular travels on BR(SR) EMUs in slam door days! This happened a couple of times on the Littlehampton Branch when I was in an otherwise empty carriage.

Al in all an excellent day of 313 runs, and all on time with no service cancellations - which some other routes were suffering from due to crew shortages.

 

[387star]

Yep - had a good day on 313s yesterday -
Good views of sets 'on shed' at Brighton, inc from the station platform ends as well as on approach from London direction. I then managed:

- 313 Brighton to Seaford and return
- B'ton to Hove on the Hove 313 Shuttle
Then a 377 interlude to littlehampton (a welcome table to enjoy my lunch off )
- Then a 313 again to Bognor and rtn as far as Barnham
- Then a 313 from Barnham (service started at Littlehampton) to Portsmouth & Southsea (BR Blue and Grey livery 313201 turned up on this one, which was a treat to see, paintwork looking very smart)
- Then 313 back from Portsmouth & Southsea to Littlehampton.

So I reckon I took a 313 on all the routes they were operating on yesterday, in good weather, with great views of the south downs / sea etc - you need to be in the centre car with the reasonably well aligned windows next to the cycle storage area to make the best of the views really

Had I started earlier and been able to finish later I think I'd have had more time enjoy station pause times and probably sampled more units.

Bognor and Littehampton are nice places for photos given the prominent remaining semaphore signals at those locations.

Station toilets are a bit of a necessity on such a jaunt I have to say! (bit of nuisance at Brighton as these are outside the barrier line if you need to make a quick change there).

What's a real shame is the grotty state southern have let the interiors get into. Far worse than other units in their fleet which suggests to me they are neglected in terms of thorough interior cleans. I recall when they were refurbed on transfer to southern and then I thought the interior renovation at the time was of really v good quality. But they are grotty now, even 313201 despite the good appearance of its exterior. This is a shame.

But all in all an excellent day of 313 runs, and all on time.

Doesn't help all the seats are facing

 

[LA50041]

Doesn't help all the seats are facing

No they are not, there are bays of seats forward and back throughout

 

[50002Superb]

Yep - had a good day on 313s yesterday -
Good views of sets 'on shed' at Brighton, inc from the station platform ends as well as on approach from London direction. I then managed:

- 313 Brighton to Seaford and return
- B'ton to Hove on the Hove 313 Shuttle
Then a 377 interlude to littlehampton (a welcome table to enjoy my lunch off )
- Then a 313 again to Bognor and rtn as far as Barnham
- Then a 313 from Barnham (service started at Littlehampton) to Portsmouth & Southsea (BR Blue and Grey livery 313201 turned up on this one, which was a treat to see, paintwork looking very smart)
- Then 313 back from Portsmouth & Southsea to Littlehampton.

So I reckon I took a 313 on all the routes they were operating on yesterday, in good weather, with great views of the south downs / sea etc - you need to be in the centre car with the reasonably well aligned windows next to the cycle storage area to make the best of the views really

Had I started earlier and been able to finish later I think I'd have had more time enjoy station pause times and probably sampled more units.

Bognor and Littehampton are nice places for photos given the prominent remaining semaphore signals at those locations.

Station toilets are a bit of a necessity on such a jaunt I have to say! (bit of nuisance at Brighton as these are outside the barrier line if you need to make a quick change there).

What's a real shame is the grotty state southern have let the interiors get into. Far worse than other units in their fleet which suggests to me they are neglected in terms of thorough interior cleans. I recall when they were refurbed on transfer to southern and then I thought the interior renovation at the time was of really v good quality. But they are grotty now, even 313201 despite the good appearance of its exterior. This is a shame.

But all in all an excellent day of 313 runs, and all on time.

Great to hear, I’m planning two more trips before they leave Southern, the next of which is tomorrow.

Out of interest could you share what units were working what and what you saw ‘on shed’ please.

 

[WesternLancer]

No they are not, there are bays of seats forward and back throughout

Indeed as shown here https://www.flickr.com/photos/barberbus/5355822328
- and in the centre car (the seating area adjacent the cycle / pram etc storage area) in the area below where pantographs would have been fitted, there are 4 bays of 4 seats each bay (2 bays each side) that align reasonably well with the windows which helps with the views - as of course PEP stock is not otherwise known for decent window alignment!

Great to hear, I’m planning two more trips before they leave Southern, the next of which is tomorrow.

Out of interest could you share what units were working what and what you saw ‘on shed’ please.

Yes, will do - I'll have to look on my camera as I don't take numbers these days, but since I photographed the trains I rode on it should be in the pics. I'll post later / edit my earlier post. Due to limited time on certain runs I had to come straight back on the same unit, so rode fewer than had I waited at an end point for the next train - if time permitted I would have waited longer at Seaford, Bognor and Portsmouth than I was able to for a more thorough look round and to wait for a different unit, but L'hampton to Portsmouth 313 service only hourly I didn't have that chance due to other commitments. EG I rtd from Seaford on the same train immediately, tho had I waited at Seaford for the next train half an hour later I would have been on another set, which of course I saw going the other way passing me at some point en route. Thanks for your interest.

Doesn't help all the seats are facing

I'm not sure that there are any 'airline' style seats at all, if that is what you mean.

 

[387star]

Indeed as shown here https://www.flickr.com/photos/barberbus/5355822328
- and in the centre car (the seating area adjacent the cycle / pram etc storage area) in the area below where pantographs would have been fitted, there are 4 bays of 4 seats each bay (2 bays each side) that align reasonably well with the windows which helps with the views - as of course PEP stock is not otherwise known for decent window alignment!



Yes, will do - I'll have to look on my camera as I don't take numbers these days, but since I photographed the trains I rode on it should be in the pics. I'll post later / edit my earlier post. Due to limited time on certain runs I had to come straight back on the same unit, so rode fewer than had I waited at an end point for the next train - if time permitted I would have waited longer at Seaford, Bognor and Portsmouth than I was able to for a more thorough look round and to wait for a different unit, but L'hampton to Portsmouth 313 service only hourly I didn't have that chance due to other commitments. EG I rtd from Seaford on the same train immediately, tho had I waited at Seaford for the next train half an hour later I would have been on another set, which of course I saw going the other way passing me at some point en route. Thanks for your interest.


I'm not sure that there are any 'airline' style seats at all, if that is what you mean.

No I meant facing as in you are always sitting opposite another seat which encourages people to put their feet on them

 

[WesternLancer]

No I meant facing as in you are always sitting opposite another seat which encourages people to put their feet on them

ah OK - I see what you mean. Thanks for clarifying.

But since I strongly dislike airline style seating and is a recipe for no personal space, forward view or leg room I favour seating bays and always avoid uni directional seating. But obv for cleanliness issues re feet on seats you have a point. I'd favour a merseyrail style zero tolerance approach instead.

But the filth is not esp on the seats it is
- ingrained hair grease on headrests
- dirty window interiors
- tired and dirty carpets (why ever have carpets on short distance metro trains - or any trains for that matter...)
- grubby wall panels not wiped clear regularly

They just seem to have a very poor interior cleaning regime, and absence of necessary heavy periodic interior cleans.

Feet on seats just part of the problem.

 

[BRblue33]

Then you have the misted up windows to look through .

 

[Islineclear3_1]

But think of the sound of those lovely compressors and spirex valves.... who needs to look out of the windows

 

[WesternLancer]

Great to hear, I’m planning two more trips before they leave Southern, the next of which is tomorrow.

Out of interest could you share what units were working what and what you saw ‘on shed’ please.

My post above #377 now annotated with unit numbers / services where known. Hope you have a good day on the south coast and get as many sets as you can!

 

[deltic14]

Just for completeness to post #377, the 313 units out on Saturday 15th October were:

Hove Shuttle: 202.
Brighton to Seaham: 207 / 209 / 215.
Portsmouth and Southsea to Littlehampton: 201 / 204 / 210 / 211.

The Brighton to Portsmouth Harbour services were (as reported before) class 377.

 

[TST2022]

No they are not, there are bays of seats forward and back throughout

There all 2+2 bays

 

[WesternLancer]

There all 2+2 bays

see post #382.

 

[Fen Enthusiast]

Managed to get 313204 on 2S13 Portsmouth & Southsea to Littlehampton, 2P34 Littlehampton to Bognor Regis and 2P27 Bongor Regis to Littlehampton. Certainly looking very knackered inside and out and sounded very knackered as well. Sorry about the dead pigeon stuck in the front of one of the cabs.