XC Voyager Refurbishment

[takno]

I would send the horrid lot on a one way trip to Sims if I could, but alas we are stuck with them for the foreseeable future. Anyway, how busy does 1st class get on XC services? If it is under utilised, and if most formations will be doubled up, could there be scope to make the 1st current 1st class coaches a composite to boost standard capacity?

I wouldn't describe it as under-utilised, except in the sense that you less often have people standing down the aisle in first class

 

[AndrewJM70]

I read that the three sets will be providing additional capacity over the Summer after which they will stand in for three sets at a time going in for refurbishmen. That would suggest the process will start in the Autumn.

 

[swt_passenger]

I read that the three sets will be providing additional capacity over the Summer after which they will stand in for three sets at a time going in for refurbishmen. That would suggest the process will start in the Autumn.

The autumn start was originally noted in post #65. The use of 3 extras over the summer period was confirmed later, but it’s all been previously posted in this forum.

 

[Trainman40083]

I would send the horrid lot on a one way trip to Sims if I could, but alas we are stuck with them for the foreseeable future. Anyway, how busy does 1st class get on XC services? If it is under utilised, and if most formations will be doubled up, could there be scope to make the 1st current 1st class coaches a composite to boost standard capacity?

Oh,I could see XC with bimodes from someone like Hitachi..

 

[GoneSouth]

The

Oh,I could see XC with bimodes from someone like Hitachi..

Hope not, I was on one a couple of days ago, sat on a metal bar with no cushioning on the seat and the whole thing was shuddering to destruction around Didcot. Voyagers glide along in comparison, looking forward to them being tidied up and refreshed as new inside.

 

[Russel]

Voyagers glide along in comparison, looking forward to them being tidied up and refreshed as new inside.

Careful, that almost sounds like a positive remark... when it comes to Voyagers, we can't be having that here!

 

[YorkshireBear]

The

Hope not, I was on one a couple of days ago, sat on a metal bar with no cushioning on the seat and the whole thing was shuddering to destruction around Didcot. Voyagers glide along in comparison, looking forward to them being tidied up and refreshed as new inside.

I agree about looking forward to tidy up as that lets them down massively at the moment. I can just about cope with the other stuff once that's sorted.

What I really want is for them to get all the AVC units that come off lease, I don't care about all these OA operators I want to not stand from Leeds to Birmingham every time I travel to Cornwall. It makes operational, commercial and logical sense for that to happen in my eyes. The OA operators can wait for the 222s.

 

[AndrewJM70]

The autumn start was originally noted in post #65. The use of 3 extras over the summer period was confirmed later, but it’s all been previously posted in this forum.

My apologies for not checking back through 630-odd posts before I wrote mine

 

[Mag_seven]

A reminder that this thread is to discus the XC Voyager Refurbishment Programme.

If anyone wants to discuss anything else then they are welcome to start a new thread elsewhere.

A spin off thread about possible longer trains for XC can be found here:

Longer trains on XC?

moderator note : split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/xc-voyager-refurbishment.261302/ The Hope not, I was on one a couple of days ago, sat on a metal bar with no cushioning on the seat and the whole thing was shuddering to destruction around Didcot. Voyagers glide along in...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Wyrleybart]

I would send the horrid lot on a one way trip to Sims if I could, but alas we are stuck with them for the foreseeable future. Anyway, how busy does 1st class get on XC services? If it is under utilised, and if most formations will be doubled up, could there be scope to make the 1st current 1st class coaches a composite to boost standard capacity?

What would you then do to run the DfT controlled timetable and the 250+ drivers and maybe 200 TMs and whatever on board staff XC have ? Not forgetting the service centres to supply hot water and catering supplies for the trains.

Not sure you have thought this through

 

[Russel]

What would you then do to run the DfT controlled timetable and the 250+ drivers and maybe 200 TMs and whatever on board staff XC have ? Not forgetting the service centres to supply hot water and catering supplies for the trains.

Not sure you have thought this through

I was just another, tiresome, anti-Voyager post, I find it best not to take them too seriously.

 

[danielnez1]

What would you then do to run the DfT controlled timetable and the 250+ drivers and maybe 200 TMs and whatever on board staff XC have ? Not forgetting the service centres to supply hot water and catering supplies for the trains.

Not sure you have thought this through

I've probably thought about it more than what you are capiable of.

 

[Goldfish62]

I wouldn't describe it as under-utilised, except in the sense that you less often have people standing down the aisle in first class

Indeed, from my observations 1st Class is usually surprisingly busy given the eye-watering fares.

Converting to a compo as part of the refurb really is a non-starter. It's already only two thirds of a coach due to the galley etc.

 

[-Colly405-]

My SeatFrog is usually around £20 each way BPW-LDS. Add that to a standard class split ticket BPW-CNM-BHM-DBY-SHF-LDS whole journey comes in at £180 return, First Class.
First Class is usually quite busy until around 1900...

 

[GoneSouth]

I was just another, tiresome, anti-Voyager post, I find it best not to take them too seriously.

Indeed, let’s celebrate the voyager for what it is, a reliable workhorse who’s only real fault isn’t a fault of the train itself, rather the people who bought them too short and subsequently denied operators the chance to fix the problem

 

[43055]

221113. Presume so.

Went past it again today and I can confirm it is in fact 221107.

 

[Trainman40083]

Went past it again today and I can confirm it is in fact 221107.

221113 certainly went into Litchurch Lane Works one day last week...I would imagine others are gathering

 

[Wolfie]

I would send the horrid lot on a one way trip to Sims if I could, but alas we are stuck with them for the foreseeable future. Anyway, how busy does 1st class get on XC services? If it is under utilised, and if most formations will be doubled up, could there be scope to make the 1st current 1st class coaches a composite to boost standard capacity?

Voyagers (and class 222s for that matter) aren't the most glamorous stock, and the XC stock isn't the best maintained of them, but they have done, and continue to do, a solid job albeit ideally there would be more of them.

They are likely to be around for another 10-15 years, for budgetary reasons if no other, so folk probably ought to get used to that. A much needed refurbishment will be beneficial for passengers (when it finally happens).

 

[Jimini]

I quite like them!

There, I’ve said it

 

[Wolfie]

I quite like them!

There, I’ve said it

You aren't the only one. They do the job. Far better than the more popular, at least on here, but hopelessly unreliable, 180s.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I quite like them!

There, I’ve said it

So do I

 

[duffield]

So do I

I think the chronic overcrowding on some services has totally irrationally (but slightly understandably) tarnished them by association. Hopefully the 12 extra sets and the refurb will improve their reputation.

 

[danielnez1]

I think the chronic overcrowding on some services has totally irrationally (but slightly understandably) tarnished them by association. Hopefully the 12 extra sets and the refurb will improve their reputation.

Also include the frequent smells, vestibule doors with a mind of their own and iffy luggage provision. Their Mk2 and Mk3 predecessors were not plagued with such issues, though they were clapped out and needed replacement. Hopefully the refurb will address a lot of the issues the Voyagers have but fundamentally per unit they don't have enough capacity, a legacy of the VHF services Virgin and the SRA thought would compensate for shorter units.

 

[gabrielhj07]

Also include the frequent smells, vestibule doors with a mind of their own and iffy luggage provision. Their Mk2 and Mk3 predecessors were not plagued with such issues, though they were clapped out and needed replacement. Hopefully the refurb will address a lot of the issues the Voyagers have but fundamentally per unit they don't have enough capacity, a legacy of the VHF services Virgin and the SRA thought would compensate for shorter units.

Agree obviously, but I can't remember the last XC HST I used that didn't have at least one vestibule door jammed open/shut!

 

[Trainman40083]

Also include the frequent smells, vestibule doors with a mind of their own and iffy luggage provision. Their Mk2 and Mk3 predecessors were not plagued with such issues, though they were clapped out and needed replacement. Hopefully the refurb will address a lot of the issues the Voyagers have but fundamentally per unit they don't have enough capacity, a legacy of the VHF services Virgin and the SRA thought would compensate for shorter units.

But wasn't that down to the Government of the day, demanding more room for passengers, and less for luggage. I can't imagine many people taking luggage to Cornwall on holiday. That said, some people do seem to bring several large wheeled suitcases, and seem surprised there is no space for them.

 

[Wolfie]

Also include the frequent smells, vestibule doors with a mind of their own and iffy luggage provision. Their Mk2 and Mk3 predecessors were not plagued with such issues, though they were clapped out and needed replacement. Hopefully the refurb will address a lot of the issues the Voyagers have but fundamentally per unit they don't have enough capacity, a legacy of the VHF services Virgin and the SRA thought would compensate for shorter units.

The Mk3s weren't plagued with vestibule door with a mind of their own? Hahahaha

One inadvertently placed case meant that those doors were either permanently open or non-stop opening and closing....

 

[danielnez1]

Agree obviously, but I can't remember the last XC HST I used that didn't have at least one vestibule door jammed open/shut!

Me neither, and I doubt it would have done the Air Conditioning system any good. AFIK the Arriva XC refurbished sets still had the 70s pressure pad door system. Something that should have been replaced, but perhaps not wise given their age!

But wasn't that down to the Government of the day, demanding more room for passengers, and less for luggage. I can't imagine many people taking luggage to Cornwall on holiday. That said, some people do seem to bring several large wheeled suitcases, and seem surprised there is no space for them.

Virgin at the time seemed pretty chuffed with the shorter sets. Clearly the Government or Virgin Trains seemingly forgot that the original XC refurb under taken by the shadow franchise explicitly included extra luggage provision based on passenger feedback.

The Mk3s weren't plagued with vestibule door with a mind of their own? Hahahaha

One inadvertently placed case meant that those doors were either permanently open or non-stop opening and closing...mm

At least they didn't close on you on a Mk 3, or perhaps Voyagers had a vendetta against me.

 

[Northerngirl]

Also include the frequent smells, vestibule doors with a mind of their own and iffy luggage provision. Their Mk2 and Mk3 predecessors were not plagued with such issues, though they were clapped out and needed replacement. Hopefully the refurb will address a lot of the issues the Voyagers have but fundamentally per unit they don't have enough capacity, a legacy of the VHF services Virgin and the SRA thought would compensate for shorter units.

And we should bring back steam while we're at it!

 

[danielnez1]

And we should bring back steam while we're at it!

Mutated kettles have their place in history (ducks).

 

[fgwrich]

Went past it again today and I can confirm it is in fact 221107.

221113 certainly went into Litchurch Lane Works one day last week...I would imagine others are gathering

Bringing it back on track, it's a little disappointing that it appears that the Ex Avanti units appear to be creeping into refurbishment first when they are in better condition than the native XC fleet!