Deliberate arson attacks on SNCF's network

[signed]

And the problems begin

Last night, criminal fires were lit up near the LGV Atlantique, damaging it, leading to massive delays and many cancellations today from Montparnasse.

Other lines are impacted as well.

Resolution is not expected until Monday.

French high-speed rail 'sabotaged' before Olympic ceremony

Rail company SNCF says 800,000 passengers have been affected by disruptions to train services.

www.bbc.com

Having cancelled my ticket for tomorrow, it seems they are waving the cancellations fees for everyone

Hours before the opening ceremony for the Paris Olympics, French rail company SNCF says its high-speed network has been targeted by "malicious acts" aimed at paralysing the system.
Several high-speed TGV lines have been hit to the west, north and east of Paris and queues have formed at Gare Montparnasse station in Paris.
Transport Minister Patrice Vergriete has strongly condemned "criminal acts" that he said would affect people's holiday plans.
A number of trains have been cancelled and SNCF has warned that the situation could last "at least all weekend while repairs are conducted".
Sports Minister Amélie Oudéa-Castéra described the attacks as "downright appalling", adding that the impact on the public and Olympic athletes was currently being assessed.
SNCF said fires had been set alight aimed at damaging its facilities.
A source close to the investigation told AFP news agency that the attack involved acts of "sabotage".

 

[stuu]

Eurostar is affected, so must have been something on LGV Nord too

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Very vague reports on what actual damage has been caused, and at which locations on the Atlantique, Nord and Est lines.
Is it affecting power supplies, or signalling?
It's quite hard to burn a railway down.

 

[MadCommuter]

Hard to work out what has happened. Reports on Twitter about overhead power lines and Eurostar diverting to slower / local tracks but nothing official. Perhaps lineside power supplies have been targeted? Also reports about cable theft.

 

[Beebman]

I'm keeping a watch on the live rolling news stream from BFM TV as I can understand French reasonably well. They're saying that lineside cabinets containing signalling equipment were targeted with flammable liquids. The site of the attack on the LGV Nord is at Croisilles which is about halfway between Paris and Lille. The LGV Atlantique seems to be the worst affected with an attack at Courtalain between Paris and Tours, the channel is showing pictures of large crowds at the Gare Montparnasse. The LGV Est is also affected but an attempted attack on the LGV Sud-Est was thwarted.

EDIT: The channel has just said that there's 1-hour delays on Eurostar.

 

[AndrewE]

Fits in well with https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd1j7kg2nk0o

A Russian man has been arrested in France on suspicion of plotting acts of "destabilisation" during the Paris Olympics, prosecutors have said.
Local media reports that a 40-year-old man was arrested on Sunday and an investigation opened into the possible passing of "intelligence to a foreign power in order to arouse hostilities in France".
The alleged plot is not believed to have been for a terror attack.
It comes just days before the games get under way, with the opening ceremony set to take place in central Paris on Friday.
Prosecutors said a search had been carried out at the man's Paris apartment at the request of the French interior ministry.
A source close to the investigation told Le Parisien, external agents had discovered evidence that suggested the man was preparing "pro-Russian operations" to destabilise France during the games.

Probably more "units" there than just the one uncovered.

 

[peteb]

Very vague reports on what actual damage has been caused, and at which locations on the Atlantique, Nord and Est lines.
Is it affecting power supplies, or signalling?
It's quite hard to burn a railway down.

Agree it's hard to burn a railway down but with rail now so increasingly beholden to computer controlled systems, loss of power or mere theft of cable it seems can wreak havoc. And it can be repeated. Rural France is vast and the high speed lines run through some less populated areas. Policing these is difficult.

 

[deltic]

Eurostar original guidance earlier today was not to travel despite also saying all trains were running but with 60 min delay. They are now saying services will be delayed by 60-90 mins and a couple of services are cancelled.

 

[Gloster]

A look at several French news websites suggests that this may be war by other means and we can have a pretty good idea who the hostile power is likely to be. The choice of the locations (particularly Courtalain on the TGV-A), the choice of what was damaged and how, and the coordination all points one way. There are other possibilities, but…

One can but expect other attacks, but whether they will be on the railway or, once security is diverted to safeguarding the lines, they hit something completely different. Keep the security forces on the hop; maybe there will also be false claims of responsibilities.

 

[Bald Rick]

Pictures on the BBC website show cable troughing with lots of burned cables in them (which look like signalling cables).

 

[railfan99]

When there is this sort of outrageous attack on French high speed lines but trains lack the option of travelling via 'normal' lines as MadCommuter mentioned above, are trains somehow issued caution orders and able to proceed at slower speeds (with a pilotman onboard)?

I'm assuming the trains don't have to use points that require switching to another track (but would have been disabled by the loss of fibre optic cables or similar).

 

[Beebman]

A video from the AFP News Agency in France (without commentary) showing track workers examining cables at Croisilles on the LGV Nord (video won't display on this forum, ignore the 'Video Unavailable' message and click on the 'Watch on YouTube' link to view - or click on this link: youtube.com/watch?v=zO6Ha8kebvg):

 

[Dan G]

I'm keeping a watch on the live rolling news stream from BFM TV as I can understand French reasonably well. They're saying that lineside cabinets containing signalling equipment were targeted with flammable liquids. The site of the attack on the LGV Nord is at Croisilles which is about halfway between Paris and Lille. The LGV Atlantique seems to be the worst affected with an attack at Courtalain between Paris and Tours, the channel is showing pictures of large crowds at the Gare Montparnasse. The LGV Est is also affected but an attempted attack on the LGV Sud-Est was thwarted.

EDIT: The channel has just said that there's 1-hour delays on Eurostar.

Thank you; by far the most detailed information I've seen.

SNCF apparently saying it'll take all weekend to repair the equipment.

Do we know how many TGVs have been cancelled? What's the tph on each of those lines?

 

[nwales58]

As well as any foreign-inspired risks, France is likely to have a lot of domestic demonstrations for the next few months. Although the summer is definitely *not* the season for strikes and demos in normal times, the deadlock following the national elections is causing demos.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

When there is this sort of outrageous attack on French high speed lines but trains lack the option of travelling via 'normal' lines as MadCommuter mentioned above, are trains somehow issued caution orders and able to proceed at slower speeds (with a pilotman onboard)?
I'm assuming the trains don't have to use points that require switching to another track (but would have been disabled by the loss of fibre optic cables or similar).

TGVs have the capability to run on normal lines, as they have classic OHL and signalliing capability in order to reach the termini in Paris.
They have certainly used old routes instead of LGV Nord before, and quite a few classic routes have TGVs in normal service.
Looks like the arsonists have targeted the mid-points of LGV lines to cause the maximum disruption.
It would be interesting to know if the ETCS signalling on LGV Est is less vulnerable that the TVM signalling on Atlantique and Nord, if it needs less lineside cabling.

 

[MarkyT]

It would be interesting to know if the ETCS signalling on LGV Est is less vulnerable that the TVM signalling on Atlantique and Nord, if it needs less lineside cabling.

I doubt if it is materially less vulnerable in the first place, but less cabling may make repairs quicker.

 

[Howardh]

As well as any foreign-inspired risks, France is likely to have a lot of domestic demonstrations for the next few months. Although the summer is definitely *not* the season for strikes and demos in normal times, the deadlock following the national elections is causing demos.

Summer is usually the go-to season for air traffic control strikes!

At least it appears the French have back-up by being able to use slower traditional lines for the TVG etc; however Eurostar has no such luxury at either end, I don't think alternative lines are available and they would have to begin where security/immigration is?

 

[rvdborgt]

At least it appears the French have back-up by being able to use slower traditional lines for the TVG etc; however Eurostar has no such luxury at either end, I don't think alternative lines are available and they would have to begin where security/immigration is?

Eurostar can run on classic lines all the way between Dunkirk and Paris.

 

[signed]

however Eurostar has no such luxury at either end

I can't remember if 374 are allowed on classical line (probably as they need to leave the LGV at Charles de Gaulle Airport before entering Paris Nord), but 373s are for sure up to running there.

Now it's mostly the case of the driver and TM signing either of the classical routes

EDIT: they can and do run on classical lines

 

[LickeyIncliner]

At least it appears the French have back-up by being able to use slower traditional lines for the TVG etc; however Eurostar has no such luxury at either end, I don't think alternative lines are available and they would have to begin where security/immigration is?

Les Echos is reporting cancellations on Eurostar and that SNCF is aiming to run at most two trains per hour per direction on the all TGV routes, diverted onto the classic lines. Hoping to get back to normal service by Monday

 

[Howardh]

Eurostar can run on classic lines all the way between Dunkirk and Paris.

I can't remember if 374 are allowed on classical line (probably as they need to leave the LGV at Charles de Gaulle Airport before entering Paris Nord), but 373s are for sure up to running there.

Now it's mostly the case of the driver and TM signing either of the classical routes

EDIT: they can and do run on classical lines

Thanks, where would Eurostar arrive/depart from in Paris if they use classic lines, and does the departure point have the immigration systems and security? If the answer's in the usual place, then am I correct in that Eurostar cal leave it's designated line, join another at slower speed, then re-join to it's normal destination?

Is there a map available, I'd like to see that!

 

[signed]

If the answer's in the usual place, then am I correct in that Eurostar cal leave it's designated line, join another at slower speed, then re-join to it's normal destination?

I have no idea how Eurostar works operationally, but if the Domestic workings are anything to go by, provided route knowledge, there is nothing obvious that would prevent a diversion working by the classical lines.

The classical lines will all lead to Paris Nord either way




The Amiens line is actually rejoined by the LGV near Paris

Eurostar e320 — Wikipédia

fr.wikipedia.org

The French wiki even has a picture of a e320 working some kind of Amiens diversion routing

 

[urpert]

I can't remember if 374 are allowed on classical line (probably as they need to leave the LGV at Charles de Gaulle Airport before entering Paris Nord), but 373s are for sure up to running there.

Now it's mostly the case of the driver and TM signing either of the classical routes

EDIT: they can and do run on classical lines

Eurostar definitely taking the classic route today (not sure if that means via Amiens or via Lille):

Status update​

Due to coordinated acts of vandalism in France, affecting the high speed line between Paris and Lille, all high speed trains going to and coming from Paris are being diverted via the classic line today Friday 26 July. This extends the journey time by around an hour and a half. Several trains have been cancelled. Eurostar's teams are fully mobilised in stations, in the call centres, and onboard to assist and ensure our passengers are fully informed. Customers are being informed via email, SMS and on Eurostar.com.

Thanks, where would Eurostar arrive/depart from in Paris if they use classic lines, and does the departure point have the immigration systems and security? If the answer's in the usual place, then am I correct in that Eurostar cal leave it's designated line, join another at slower speed, then re-join to it's normal destination?

Is there a map available, I'd like to see that!

All Eurostars already use the classic lines between Gonesse (end of LGV Nord) and the platforms at Gare du Nord. The same is true for Brussels (and obviously Eurostars which continue to Amsterdam use a mixture of classic and HSL).

You can see where the HSL diverges from the classic line to Creil by scrolling this map:

Carte détaillée du Metro/RER/Tram/Trains

cartometro.com

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Eurostar run into Gare du Nord is over the classic line from the Amiens direction (the LGV junction is at Gonesse).
LGV Nord has classic line connections north and south of Arras and at Lille.
TGVs from Lille have run via Arras and Amiens into GdN, and I'm pretty sure 373s have run via Hazebrouck/Lens from Calais to Arras, and is in any case a route for regular TGVs from Dunkerque.

TGVs from Bordeaux on the Atlantique line can divert at Tours on to the old line via Orléans, but there is little capacity at Austerlitz station for them.
TGVs via Le Mans can reach Montparnasse via Chartres, but again the suburban capacity is very tight.

 

[Dougal2345]

Interesting that Eurostar use the term 'classic line' in their communications - I would have thought the average traveller might not have heard the term before, and perhaps 'diverted via a slower route' might have been a better phrase to use...

 

[signed]

I would have thought the average traveller might not have heard the term before

The logical thing is that it's a straight translation of the ligne classique term which is widely used over on SNCF land

 

[railfan99]

Interesting that Eurostar use the term 'classic line' in their communications - I would have thought the average traveller might not have heard the term before, and perhaps 'diverted via a slower route' might have been a better phrase to use...

I agree, but in advertising there is a recent trend to use the word 'classic' to mean 'original'. I don't recall the word being used like that a decade ago.

 

[D6130]

Thanks, where would Eurostar arrive/depart from in Paris if they use classic lines, and does the departure point have the immigration systems and security? If the answer's in the usual place, then am I correct in that Eurostar cal leave it's designated line, join another at slower speed, then re-join to it's normal destination?

Is there a map available, I'd like to see that!

On two occasions in the past - when there have sadly been fatalities on the high speed line between Lille and Calais - I have been travelling on London-bound Eurostars which have been diverted via Armentieres, Hazebrouck and Calais-Frethun (reverse). Presumably a French driver or conductor-driver and train manager would have been provided had the train been diagrammed for UK crews.

 

[urpert]

On two occasions in the past - when there have sadly been fatalities on the high speed line between Lille and Calais - I have been travelling on London-bound Eurostars which have been diverted via Armentieres, Hazebrouck and Calais-Frethun (reverse). Presumably a French driver or conductor-driver and train manager would have been provided had the train been diagrammed for UK crews.

I’m now trying to work out if there’s a direct move from the low level platforms at Frethun towards the Tunnel portal or if you’d have to shunt on the LGV.

 

[matt]

I’m now trying to work out if there’s a direct move from the low level platforms at Frethun towards the Tunnel portal or if you’d have to shunt on the LGV.

Looking at Google map it shows a connection