Far-right protests

[Snow1964]

Why? Because of what we've seen. Because social media moves, literally in many cases, at the speed of light. This started because rumours about the attacker being a Muslim extremist fresh off a boat. Getting the ruling out sooner might have at least calmed things a little.

And once the perpetrator of Southport crime was revealed to be Welsh, the thugs openly continued but showing English flags defaced with symbols consisting of a circle, horizontal bar and inverted V

So is it no longer a religious dispute, but an anti-welsh protest, or are the mindless thugs so stupid they believe social media misinformation

 

[najaB]

This was a pre-meditated attack on innocent young kids, he deserves nothing but being brought to justice as an adult and face all the consequences as such.

Possibly. Or it equally could have been the result of a very ill person who wasn't able to get treatment.

 

[nlogax]

or are the mindless thugs so stupid they believe social media misinformation

Some are, no doubt at all if you watch some of the footage of recent days. A fair proportion of the others are just spoiling for a fight because that's literally all they want. The sort of people who'll happily lamp others just because they didn't like the way they were looked at while walking down the street.

 

[WestCoast]

the problem with these, erm, populist regimes is that at some point YOU become the enemy, even if you are the most loyal foot soldier. One day you are out burning hotels with immigrants in them and chanting "save our kids" and the next you are the kulak and being shot for being an enemy of the people because your garden is bigger than another garden!

Very true, and while you might not be the minority group they’re currently lobbing bricks at you sure can be the next target if they get their way.

 

[Bantamzen]

And once the perpetrator of Southport crime was revealed to be Welsh, the thugs openly continued but showing English flags defaced with symbols consisting of a circle, horizontal bar and inverted V

So is it no longer a religious dispute, but an anti-welsh protest, or are the mindless thugs so stupid they believe social media misinformation

Well there's little doubt that the organising is being done by hooligan crews, so yeah from their perspective it will be an anti "anyone but us" motivation to start a scrap. Groups like the EDL will jump on any cause they can. But for the people not directly involved with said crews but turning up to either get involved or cheer the riots on will be relying more on what social media is telling them. Had more information about the attacker been available sooner, social media feeds might have been more diluted with the real information rather than the misinformation. I happened to be watching the trending feeds on X during the initial 24hrs after the attack, and most trends pointed to false information that he was a recent migrant, very little showed on the official line for quite some time. This is what the far right groups jumped on.

Without doubt lessons need to be learned about how to manage on-going information when events occur that are likely to cause serious disturbance. Social media isn't going away any time soon, and will continue to be a primary source of information for a lot of people.

Possibly. Or it equally could have been the result of a very ill person who wasn't able to get treatment.

Well possibly, we are not likely to understand much more about events leading up to the attack until the trial. But at this point it does at least feel as though it may well have been pre-meditated.

 

[GusB]

Why? Because of what we've seen. Because social media moves, literally in many cases, at the speed of light. This started because rumours about the attacker being a Muslim extremist fresh off a boat. Getting the ruling out sooner might have at least calmed things a little.

Doesn't matter. Those who were intent on spreading rumours would have done so regardless. They aren't interested in the facts - only stirring up hatred.

Frankly so what if he was 13? He'd stabbed and killed multiple young children. Quite honestly when crimes are as bad as this, I say the anonymity should not apply or at least an early judgement be made on it. This was a pre-meditated attack on innocent young kids, he deserves nothing but being brought to justice as an adult and face all the consequences as such. This may come as a surprise to you, but there are violent young kids out there that think they are untouchable in part because even in the worst case scenarios they know the law works almost as hard to protect their identities as it does bringing them to justice.

I'm not commenting on whether or not it was pre-meditated, and nor should anyone else. Charges have been brought and the case is live; it's now in the hands of the court.

The disinformation spread because nothing was coming out officially, so yeah it may well have quelled some of the anger before things kicked off.

Nothing came out officially because there are rules in place about revealing the identity of someone who is under 18! Why can't you grasp that simple fact? Proper legal processes should not be thrown out to appease the baying mob.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I mean given the argument is now "well the kid isn't really British" as he was born to parents who are immigrants, I'm not convinced giving any more info would have stopped the misinformation and rumours. They already don't believe facts, so why would they have believe the info if it was given out earlier?

 

[Haywain]

English flags defaced with symbols consisting of a circle, horizontal bar and inverted V

You appear to be describing the recognised symbol of anarchy - an anti authority symbol. How is it anti-Welsh?

I mean given the argument is now "well the kid isn't really British" as he was born to parents who are immigrants, I'm not convinced giving any more info would have stopped the misinformation and rumours. They already don't believe facts, so why would they have believe the info if it was given out earlier?

They (the "protestors") are the sort of people who won't believe what they are told by politicians and mainstream media anyway. They would see being told that he is Christian as just a deflection tactic.

 

[najaB]

Well possibly, we are not likely to understand much more about events leading up to the attack until the trial. But at this point it does at least feel as though it may well have been pre-meditated

There's no doubt that it was a deliberate act rather than being completely involuntary. However we don't know the perpetrator's mental state in the lead-up to the attack. So we need to take care that the call to "bring him to justice as an adult" isn't just an emotional desire for retribution.

 

[Robin Edwards]

I mean given the argument is now "well the kid isn't really British" as he was born to parents who are immigrants, I'm not convinced giving any more info would have stopped the misinformation and rumours. They already don't believe facts, so why would they have believe the info if it was given out earlier?

We're dealing with a minority of people who can't get their heads around British people not being white and what they want to believe, pure-bred, indigenous (sic). Whatever science or truth is thrown at them doesn't have a positive affect - their minds are deeply infected.

It's bewildering that there are those amongst us wanting to understand the reasons why some people are drawn to being mindless thugs whilst claiming it's someone else's fault and that those guys over there (brown, Polish, muslim etc etc) are treated more favourably. For these individuals, whatever happens they will blame someone else for why their lives are ****. That's me saying that as a working class, council house kid from the 1960s who embraced the Windrush and Ugandan, Ceylon, India, Pakistan etc immigration at the time. I'm now seeing mindless individuals who seemingly want to cleanse their little England of people that don't look like them?? Jog-on I say!

 

[Bantamzen]

Doesn't matter. Those who were intent on spreading rumours would have done so regardless. They aren't interested in the facts - only stirring up hatred.

No they aren't interested, but were that misinformation is potentially going to cause more serious issues its important to get as detailed a picture out to the general public as soon as possible. In fact the perceived secrecy was actually fuelling the conspiracy theories.

I'm not commenting on whether or not it was pre-meditated, and nor should anyone else. Charges have been brought and the case is live; it's now in the hands of the court.

Fair enough.

Nothing came out officially because there are rules in place about revealing the identity of someone who is under 18! Why can't you grasp that simple fact? Proper legal processes should not be thrown out to appease the baying mob.

It's not about appeasing the mob, it's about handling the situation. Clearly the judge felt it was in the public's interest to get that information out there, so given that the lack of it fuelled a lot of what happened it so an earlier decision may have helped cool some hot heads, at least away from the organised crews.

There's no doubt that it was a deliberate act rather than being completely involuntary. However we don't know the perpetrator's mental state in the lead-up to the attack. So we need to take care that the call to "bring him to justice as an adult" isn't just an emotional desire for retribution.

Yes as I said there might be a possibility of this, but my point is about who the wider system operates. There's no point putting our heads in the sand, a lot of young people think the laws as they stand are weak and make them untouchable. This confidence makes getting involved in serious disorder, violence and sadly even murders more likely for some. It does need to be addressed, because if it isn't it will only get worse.

 

[nw1]

It’s terrorism. Let’s give it its proper name. It’s domestic terrorism.

Quite. What else is hurling petrol bombs at hotels because they are holding asylum seekers.

 

[brad465]

I was still doing my GCSEs when the 2011 riots occurred, where on returning to school for Year 11 I wondered if anyone at school I knew would not be there because they'd been banged up for involvement in the riots (I don't recall anyone experiencing this in the end). On this occasion I don't live terribly close to the affected areas so I'm not expecting a similar occurrence regarding "absent colleagues", but were I based in one of the hotspot towns/cities I would be wondering.

 

[LUYMun]

There was an election about 4 weeks ago. The people have decided what they want and the politics they want to have in the future. Your "concerns" have been heard and dismissed by a majority. End of.

Considering that the Reform party had a total aggregate vote of 4.1 million but only gaining 5 seats as a result of the FPTP voting system - compared with Liberal Democrat's 3.5 million total collected votes and winning 72 seats - I doubt it is fair to say "the people have decided what they want".

 

[Donny Dave]

Following a stabbing in Scotland on Saturday, Tommy Robinson has been spreading more false allegations trying to stir up trouble....

John Swinney warns against 'speculation' after Stirling stabbing

A 29-year-old local man is in custody and the woman's condition is described as non life threatening.

www.bbc.co.uk

First Minister John Swinney has warned against "unhelpful speculation" following the stabbing of a woman in Stirling.
The 21-year-old woman was hospitalised following a stabbing on King Street about 20:20 on Saturday.
She was later treated for non life threatening injuries at Forth Valley Royal Hospital. A 29-year-old man was arrested and charged in connection with the attack.
Speculation on social media following the attack suggested three people had been stabbed and the attacker was a Muslim.
Police Scotland said the man arrested is a white man from the local area.
The first minister stressed there was no wider threat to the public, adding: "This is a serious incident and my thoughts are with the victim.
"This is an isolated incident and I have been advised there is no wider threat to the public.
"I would encourage everyone to refrain from unhelpful speculation on social media."
The rumour had been promoted by Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, known as Tommy Robinson, the founder of the English Defence League (EDL).
This follows riots across England and Belfast in recent days after the murders of three young girls in Southport on Monday.
Bebe King, six, Elsie Dot Stancombe, seven, and Alice Dasilva Aguiar, nine, were killed in the attack, with 17-year-old Axel Muganwa Rudakubana appearing court charged with the crime.
A statement from Police Scotland said: "We are aware of speculation and false information circulating on social media regarding this incident.
"Extensive inquiries are ongoing to establish the full circumstances and we would urge people not to add to this speculation online."

 

[nw1]

I have to say that I'm quite disappointed with some of the responses in this thread. I also come from a white working-class background and in no way do I feel that I'm left behind because of that. It's difficult for working class people from all backgrounds to climb the ladder, but it has absolutely nothing to do with colour or ethnic background.

Quite. I think anyone who thinks they are disadvantaged because they are white and/or native-born British is living in some imaginary fantasy land in a parallel universe.

 

[Gloster]

I fear that we have moved from a society where, if you didn’t like the government, you worked or gave money to other parties to better prepare them for the next election (or used your media outlets). Nowadays, you use social media to stir up trouble so as to undermine the elected government in the hope of destroying it. Why wait?

 

[nw1]

I fear that we have moved from a society where, if you didn’t like the government, you worked or gave money to other parties to better prepare them for the next election (or used your media outlets). Nowadays, you use social media to stir up trouble so as to undermine the elected government in the hope of destroying it. Why wait?

I'm probably diving into the realms of conspiracy theory here but it's funny how the riot organisers appear to have targeted seats in which Labour might be at risk from Reform in future elections. One wonders whether the social-media organisers of the riots have been trying to do this deliberately - to corrupt certain members of the community into believing Labour is the root cause of all their problems, even though they've only been in power four weeks.

Of course I suspect it will backfire. Both Labour and the Tories are condemning the riots, and Reform is strangely silent.

 

[RT4038]

Quite. I think anyone who thinks they are disadvantaged because they are white and/or native-born British is living in some imaginary fantasy land in a parallel universe.

I suspect many of these people would have been found a place in the armed forces in the past, which would have conveniently removed them from immediate society. [Not only in this country but many others]. However, the nature and culture of the forces has changed and the problem now on the streets. Maybe this needs revisiting?

 

[TheGuy77]

It's only worse with that £20b 'black hole'. No money for police or prisons.

 

[renegademaster]

here but it's funny how the riot organisers appear to have targeted seats in which Labour might be at risk from Reform

Merseyside is hardly one of them areas.
More likely is that the sentiments that lead to the riot are the same sentiments that lead to voting reform

 

[TheGuy77]

PM condemns 'far-right thuggery' after Rotherham hotel violence

Sir Keir Starmer warns those involved in violence at a Rotherham hotel on Sunday will "regret" it.

www.bbc.co.uk

"The Prime Minister has condemned "far-right thuggery" after masked individuals attacked police and forced their way into a hotel, which has been used to house asylum seekers."
Another truly upsetting attack from the far-right. Smashing windows and lighting a bin on fire is not the way to go.

 

[GardenRail]

It's only worse with that £20b 'black hole'. No money for police or prisons.

That'll soon be sorted. They've stolen £300 per year pocket money off our pensioners to help fill it. (Winter Fuel Allowance)

How much do all these hotels cost as a comparison?

 

[SuspectUsual]

That'll soon be sorted. They've stolen £300 per year pocket money off our pensioners to help fill it. (Winter Fuel Allowance)

How much do all these hotels cost as a comparison?

The worst kind of whataboutery

 

[DynamicSpirit]

One point also that needs to be considered is that the far-right thugs have, objectively, committed far worse acts than say the Just Stop Oil protestors who sat on gantries on the M25. The latter did not violently attack mosques or the police.

Thus, objectively, these thugs should be given significantly harsher sentences than 5 years in prison.

Not sure it's that comparable. Certainly, the behaviour of thugs who have been rioting/attacking hotels/etc. is massively worse than that of the Just Stop Oil protestors. But on the other hand the protestors you're thinking of got such long sentences in part because they'd been deliberately conspiring and planning the disruption they caused over an extended period of time. That's a aggravating factor in sentencing. But I'm guessing it won't apply to most of the people rioting this week - because it's more likely they just turned up looking for some trouble, with no planning.

I don't know much about sentencing guidelines, but my gut feeling is 5 years in prison feels right for the people involved in the riots.

And as for 4.1 million votes for Reform, well that illustrates the problem and the danger of the far-right. (If the RN in France are labelled far-right, why not Reform?)
They are increasingly convincing people that their political philosophy is acceptable.

Maybe because Reform are not far-right? They are a party that on the whole believes in small Government and free markets, and also in national identity and low immigration.

In my view it is that hard-right views have been increasingly tolerated and even encouraged, including by a few Tories. Braverman is a good example IMV, with her dehumanising comments aimed at migrants and even people with "woke" views in general. People think it's increasingly acceptable to outwardly show intense hate directed at asylum-seekers. This has to stop.

I really don't think it's acceptable to conflate the views of people (like Suella Braverman) who happen to believe immigration should be lower, but who work within the normal political processes, with the awful thuggery, arson, and attempts at intimidation that we've seen over the last week - much of it I suspect by people who have no interest in politics but are happy with any excuse for a bit of violence. (Just as, on the other side, it wouldn't be fair to conflate the views of many people who are very concerned about the environment and want to see drastic action to decarbonise the economy with the awful actions of Just Stop Oil)

 

[Howardh]

PM condemns 'far-right thuggery' after Rotherham hotel violence

Sir Keir Starmer warns those involved in violence at a Rotherham hotel on Sunday will "regret" it.

www.bbc.co.uk

"The Prime Minister has condemned "far-right thuggery" after masked individuals attacked police and forced their way into a hotel, which has been used to house asylum seekers."
Another truly upsetting attack from the far-right. Smashing windows and lighting a bin on fire is not the way to go.

How many of those in the riots will have been treated overnight in hospitals staffed by immigrants??

On another forum someone asked "what is the deep rooted cause behind these riots" and one answer was "dry summer weather, strong cheap alcohol and readily obtainable cocaine".

 

[uglymonkey]

When the weather gets cooler and it starts to rain ,the riots will stop.

 

[renegademaster]

On another forum someone asked "what is the deep rooted cause behind these riots" and one answer was "dry summer weather, strong cheap alcohol and readily obtainable cocaine".

and those only existed this summer and never before?

 

[Howardh]

and those only existed this summer and never before?

Toxteth springs to mind!

 

[TheGuy77]

How many of those in the riots will have been treated overnight in hospitals staffed by immigrants??

South Yorkshire Police described the violence as "nothing short of disgusting" and said at least 10 of its officers had been injured, including one who had been knocked unconscious.