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Further problems for EC mainline
- Thread starter Welshman
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My money on Headspans being put far apart to save money are the Culprit. Plus it's got crossovers..
It's just not good enough. Other TOCs havew set contingency plans to deal with a line blockage. These clowns just don't seem to bother. The DCSM at Sheffield was fuming earlier at the lack of accurate info coming from East Coast. I do hope senior East Coast management read this forum - if you are reading this then you have some serious issues to deal with, and a rant on your website about poor performance by Network Rail will not cut the mustard.
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
Typical.
They're becoming more like a Government Department every day:-
"When something happens, don't worry about what to do.
Worry about what to say."
TheBigD
Established Member
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- 19 Nov 2008
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- 1,995
From XC...
"...There are OLE problems on the ECML south of Grantham which has resulted in severe overcrowding on CrossCountry services with 1V64 leaving customers behind. As a result of this we are currently not accepting East Coast advance purchase tickets..."
And from EMT...
"...Due to EMT accepting East Coast tickets all London services both Southbound & Northbound are reported to be severely overcrowded.
Train crews are advised to declassify 1st class on a train by train basis as and where the TM feels this is the necessary thing to do,
Would all stations please make extra announcements advising passengers that EMT are unable to honour reservations at the present time and that services are reported to be overcrowded.
Stations may also see extra dwell time at certain stations due to the above..."
"...There are OLE problems on the ECML south of Grantham which has resulted in severe overcrowding on CrossCountry services with 1V64 leaving customers behind. As a result of this we are currently not accepting East Coast advance purchase tickets..."
And from EMT...
"...Due to EMT accepting East Coast tickets all London services both Southbound & Northbound are reported to be severely overcrowded.
Train crews are advised to declassify 1st class on a train by train basis as and where the TM feels this is the necessary thing to do,
Would all stations please make extra announcements advising passengers that EMT are unable to honour reservations at the present time and that services are reported to be overcrowded.
Stations may also see extra dwell time at certain stations due to the above..."
bengolding
Member
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For those of us that don't work in the railway, what is 1V64?
Whilst I sympathise with XC, refusing to accept EC advance tickets is so typically XC and just plain wrong. I know they must be getting fed up of problems on the ECML but why should they take their beef with EC out on passengers. I do completely agree that it is a joke that whenever the wires come down EC seem to have no recovery plan regardless of where it is...also it again raises the question of why WCML wires stay up but ECML like to come down. I do also like Hull Trains advice that passengers should travel from Doncaster to London via TPE and Virgin via Sheffield and Manc which I haven't read anywhere is an approved route for this trouble.
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
Its Cross Country's Glasgow (dep 10:59) to Plymouth (arr 21:45) service. Running late.
YorkshireRider
Member
Just spoke to the driver who was working the 0840, it was a low tree branch which hit the windscreen, cracked it, then bounced along the top of the train and into the pantograph, apparentley it only took a few hundred metres of wire down but because it included the neutral section its a big job, someone on here might be able to explain why that is, i dont know
XC are often dangerously overcrowded on many sections of their network and I agree EC are an embarrassment and have no excuse really for not running some level of service north of Doncaster. My concern is that XC are setting a precedent here and what happens if this becomes the rule that in future XC won't take advance passengers of other companies during disruption. Then what happens if the other companies follow suit. XC are very good at leading the way on screwing passengers and also what if other companies had adopted this policy when those XC driver shortages led to massive overcrowding on their services?
XC have no choice but to do this - their trains are totally rammed. They cannot be expected to pick up 2 or 3 trainloads of East Coast passengers and load them onto 4 car and 5 car Voyagers - it's just physically impossible. I'm afraid you really are completely barking up the wrong tree Embers.
If East Coast were running a contingency service as they should be, it wouldn't be necessary for XC to prioritise Any Permitted ticketholders......
OMGitsDAVE
Member
Thats its headcode.
Cross Country 1V64 15:45 service from Edinburgh Waverley to Plymouth via Leeds
- 1V64 is used by the company as its reference, basically.
East Coast have been running a contingency service, some of it doesn't seem to be appearing on the website but trains are being turned at York, Doncaster, Newark & Grantham. HST's are being used to shuttle passengers in the affected area.
Of course you're all probably sitting at home making these judgements, granted I see some are not, but unless you're actually down in the thick of it, it's hard to criticise. Yes putting it on the web is easy to do and informative but it's better to get it done rather than please those watching at home telling the world how it should be done.
Of course you're all probably sitting at home making these judgements, granted I see some are not, but unless you're actually down in the thick of it, it's hard to criticise. Yes putting it on the web is easy to do and informative but it's better to get it done rather than please those watching at home telling the world how it should be done.
Couldnt have put it any better myself. I've been stood at Peterborough spotting this afternoon and there are HST's filled up as regular as 1 an hour going north and more going south. This is the only disadvantage of running a lot of electric powercars, diesels are in overtime. But what i would question, is why haven't they linked up 91's with 67's ? or is it hard to fit them into the Peterborough-Spalding-Lincoln line with their services and the odd freight ??
David Dunning
Member
All very good BUT why cant they update the website . I have a friend trying to get back to Scarboro tonight using the 2000 from Kings Cross. It's shown as on time on the departure boards but that conflicts with the general note on disruption .I know it might run as an HST diverted via Lincoln but the general rail traveller doesnt know that . As I write this .. 10 and 20 mins prior to departure the board on line shows both the Hull and Newcastle trains running on time . I know that departure boards have limitations but websites nowadays need managing by a human at times of trouble .
Mark_re
Member
TPE and XC were refusing some pax boarding at Durham at lunchtime. Utter chaos and lots of frustration. I can understand not wanting to totally cram trains, but it is no worse than TPE deal with on a daily basis between Leeds and Manchester.
dk1
Veteran Member
Thank goodness for the ash cloud & Virgin running through services to Bonnie Scotland 
9 hours after the wires came down EC are still in a complete shambles and virtually no services PBO-DON. I realise getting crews with knowledge to the affected area is an issue and getting paths and 125's for use on the diversion is a challenge but this is not the first time this has happened and after the last couple surely they should have an action plan and even the service you describe in your defence of them doesn't sound much like a coordinated action plan. Surely it couldn't have been too challenging to have set up and hourly Doncaster (or even Grantham) to Edinburgh service and an hourly PBO to KGX service rather than the current randomness. Also EC aren't providing any information online on which services are actually running which is even worse.
Believe me, I'm not sat at honme, I've been dealing with the fallout myself. I was at York for an hour and a half and all of East Coast's pax were being loaded onto XC. I saw one HST go north about half full and that was it. From somebody who has seen what has been going on at the coalface, I can tell you that East Coast have been shambolic. Their Control won't even answer the phone for goodness sake. Appalling.
Failed Unit
Established Member
The problem with the joint line has done on for quite a while to be honest, back to GNER days. 2 Major problems.
1. Many East Coast Drivers don't sign it.
2. It is only open for a short period of time.
Back in BR days problem 2 didn't exist, the single shift working started in the early 1990's. I think that was 1992. So in BR days it was much easier as everything was HST anyway {for the majority of the period I remember diversions happening quickly} As it was one company you could get drivers that knew the route from more depots, now you would have to ask EMT. I am sure the joint line could handle to trains per hour along with the EMT local.
I think this problem won't really be sorted until the joint line upgrade is complete, what if this had happened on a Sunday you can't just drag a signaller out of bed. In fact I am sure tonight the line will need to close as the signallers hit their maximum working hours. It is a pity that the joint line can't be used more ofter but I don't think there is much point in sorting out problem 1 without problem 2 getting fixed! I also don't know how realisitic it is to use the 67s to drag the odd electric around the joint. Again sods law would state that when all the wires come down we have no HST to be found in the area!
It looks like it will be at least 5 years before the joint is resignalled so it looks like we probably have another 5 years of this. Busing? How many bus and coach companies have that many drivers just waiting for work at short notice on a bank holiday weekend?
EMT have an easier solution, just send around a line that is open 24h per day, because they know it can be used then it is worth having drivers trained for it. I am sure if the joint line was open the Lincoln HST would run via the joint line to keep the route knowledge upto date rather than via Newark as it does now. I am sure under BR the other option of running into St Pancras may have got utilised, but we are no longer a national network anymore in that respect.
1. Many East Coast Drivers don't sign it.
2. It is only open for a short period of time.
Back in BR days problem 2 didn't exist, the single shift working started in the early 1990's. I think that was 1992. So in BR days it was much easier as everything was HST anyway {for the majority of the period I remember diversions happening quickly} As it was one company you could get drivers that knew the route from more depots, now you would have to ask EMT. I am sure the joint line could handle to trains per hour along with the EMT local.
I think this problem won't really be sorted until the joint line upgrade is complete, what if this had happened on a Sunday you can't just drag a signaller out of bed. In fact I am sure tonight the line will need to close as the signallers hit their maximum working hours. It is a pity that the joint line can't be used more ofter but I don't think there is much point in sorting out problem 1 without problem 2 getting fixed! I also don't know how realisitic it is to use the 67s to drag the odd electric around the joint. Again sods law would state that when all the wires come down we have no HST to be found in the area!
It looks like it will be at least 5 years before the joint is resignalled so it looks like we probably have another 5 years of this. Busing? How many bus and coach companies have that many drivers just waiting for work at short notice on a bank holiday weekend?
EMT have an easier solution, just send around a line that is open 24h per day, because they know it can be used then it is worth having drivers trained for it. I am sure if the joint line was open the Lincoln HST would run via the joint line to keep the route knowledge upto date rather than via Newark as it does now. I am sure under BR the other option of running into St Pancras may have got utilised, but we are no longer a national network anymore in that respect.
This is illustrative of how flawed the railway privatisation model is in this country. Pre-sectorisation/privatisation, due to their varied workload, drivers would have had a diverse range traction and route knowledge. It would not have been difficult to find drivers who signed 47s, HSTs, 91s etc.
I was talking to a DBS driver whose career started in the early 80s. Pre-privatisation, he could be trip working some wagons with an 08 one day, and driving a HST the next
David Dunning
Member
I would like to add .. to be fair .. the east coast website is more helpful . I had been using the national rail one . However that site is only talking about the east coast options and for york passengers you need good information about all three EC operators as even Hull Trains to Selby is an option for pickup .
Failed Unit
Established Member
Or even worse case, grabbed some of the Lincoln crew to pilot the driver without route knowledge. I wonder how easy it would be to get an EMT driver to do that know. I can't see them cancelling the local service and getting bad press to assist the busier and more important East Coast service.
Indeed, they could even operate the diverted HSTs/91s in leu of the EMT stopper services on that line, benefitting the locals with a more frequent service run with comparatively luxurious rolling stock!
When the diversions ran last year, I was surprised that despite local services along the GN/GE joint being cancelled to make way for the diverted EC trains, EC trains weren't even stopping at the more major stations on the line - eg Spalding, Sleaford, Lincoln.
Again, the above would be due to EC train crew not signing the stations, and EMT crew not signing the trains, not to mention issues surrounding revenue abstraction etc.
Just thinking of all the reasons which get in the way of the railways operating as an integrated unit makes me lose the will to live!!
The website provides information for passengers, and it clearly has a range of information on it. The priority of course is to get those passengers already on the route moving, hence what is being done on the ground.
If you haven't started your journey then I'm sure common sense would prevail and you would abandon your journey today or seek the alternative route where possible.
And yes Ferret I am well aware of what's going on because I've witnessed this myself today. Still many are sitting at home going why is this being done and why isn't that being done. It doesn't matter what trains are running all restrictions are lifted as far as I'm aware. Control have been battling getting guards & drivers to where they need to be. Too many armchair expert opinions on here as usual.
Looks like there's a shambles brewing at Doncaster now. Having been advised by EC Control that the 2025 off there was a definite runner being an HST, it's 25L and counting stood on the platform there. Bet the passengers are chuffed.....
UPDATE - left 32 late apparently!
UPDATE - left 32 late apparently!
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Failed Unit
Established Member
Does anyone know how the EMT service via Lincoln coped, I don't know how many people would think about it but getting off at Newark heading to Lincoln and down to Peterborough from there would not be a bad shout, appart from the short units (or even Grantham - Sleaford and then Sleaford - Peterborough)
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