Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[TheEastCoaster]

While Winchburgh is indeed expanding, and increased capacity from there into town is overall good, I agree with others that increased capacity and frequencies on existing services (espescially 72, 73 and 74) should absolutely be the priority.

I suppose, this is a risk that Lothian are willing to take, and I guesd the residents of Kirkliston will be happy to have a Lothian service direct to the city centre once again after 5 whole years, let's hope this time it actually pays off, If I was Lothian I would be getting a roadshow in Kirkliston and Winchburgh to advertise the service and it's benefits over the X38.

If things go well.. could we see them extend it via to M9 to Linlithgow?

 

[jb66]

X19 is obviously a retaliation to mcgills airport buses.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Putting all their resources into a new express bus when they could have added extra buses to the hourly timetabled services is a head scratcher, This will be because McGill's are offering a £1 single from Maybury to the City Centre no doubt

I don't think that's having any impact on an extremely busy corridor.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Oct 2024 ==

X19 is obviously a retaliation to mcgills airport buses.

I thought competition was healthy?

 

[roadierway77]

Yeah I'll echo everyone else's responses - a duplicate of the X38 shouldn't be the priority when the Livingston local services are crying out for improvements. The 72 appears to still be regularly running late between Livingston and Fauldhouse - it's clear the service needs a new timetable and possibly a frequency improvement. I'm skeptical whether there will be enough demand for an additional two buses per hour on the Winchburgh corridor, especially when those buses will almost certainly be double deckers. The X19 likely seems to be a direct attempt to compete with McGill's again, particularly when you look at the timetable - the X19 is scheduled to depart Regent Road five minutes before the X38.

 

[Bungle965]

Reminder that anything speculative can be discussed in this thread

Lothian group (Network/Route Speculation)

This forum is ideally for route speculation, ideas for route improvements, route ideas and how you would personally make the Lothian network better. Where would you take the bus and how frequent would you run it etc?

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[overthewater]

The public aren't silly, if you glace at some of the comments made on social media, IE why are they starting new routes instead of fixing the current issues" No way anyone can come back and say there short of buses of drivers.

Lothian can't turn around say, Edinburgh service is poor then run the same level of poor service as McGills. How about they try and get back the passengers thier lost within the Livingston area instead of looking over the garden fence

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Speaking of Lothian Country, 445 has been painted, more of the batch should be painted when the second “batch” BZLs arrive in service. “Batch” being the next 5/10.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Oct 2024 ==

800s won’t last much longer. Speaking of, we’re currently on page 445 of this particular forum.

 

[Resuwen]

Launching new routes is a sign the rest of the BZLs must be not too far away, if they can cope with an increased PVR as well as getting the remaining 57/08/09s off the fleet

 

[InOban]

Just a thought. The new station at Winchburgh was meant to be partially funded by the housebuilders but due to the escalation in construction costs the numbers don't add up. Maybe the builders contribution is now supporting the additional buses, just as I think is happening at the south side of Livingston (where they were meant to be paying for an enlarged car park at Kirknewton )

 

[CN04NRJ]

The public aren't silly, if you glace at some of the comments made on social media, IE why are they starting new routes instead of fixing the current issues" No way anyone can come back and say there short of buses of drivers.

Lothian can't turn around say, Edinburgh service is poor then run the same level of poor service as McGills. How about they try and get back the passengers thier lost within the Livingston area instead of looking over the garden fence

We can agree on something, I think the 72/74 should have been prioritised over this - people have been crying out for ages for an increase of capacity (at least at peak times) on those routes.

 

[Highland050261]

Launching new routes is a sign the rest of the BZLs must be not too far away, if they can cope with an increased PVR as well as getting the remaining 57/08/09s off the fleet

441 - 465 due to transfer due to the PVR increase 445 already painted into Lothian Country colour.

 

[DunsBus]

I suspect a McGill's retaliation will be on the cards.

 

[Vectron383]

Just passed a Lothian BZL on the M6 near Stafford

 

[Bus9120UK]

Just passed a Lothian BZL on the M6 near Stafford

This may be it here on the live traffic cameras for the M6 -

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I suspect a McGill's retaliation will be on the cards.

Any retaliation would be fairly limited though. Waste of time trying to run local services within Edinburgh. You can’t buy brand loyalty, no matter how cheap it is.

They could try and have a crack at West Lothian again, though I doubt the people of West Lothian would be jumping for joy of their return either.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Any retaliation would be fairly limited though. Waste of time trying to run local services within Edinburgh. You can’t buy brand loyalty, no matter how cheap it is.

They could try and have a crack at West Lothian again, though I doubt the people of West Lothian would be jumping for joy of their return either.

You never know, Lothian are yet to provide improvements to a network screaming out for improvements and the people in the likes of Fauldhouse and West Calder to name a few will be furious that a stunt like the X19 is being pulled over a trivial £1 fare on McGills that will make no difference to Lothian when theres still and hourly service and no buses after 9pm to these towns

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

You never know, Lothian are yet to provide improvements to a network screaming out for improvements and the people in the likes of Fauldhouse and West Calder to name a few will be furious that a stunt like the X19 is being pulled over a trivial £1 fare on McGills that will make no difference to Lothian when theres still and hourly service and no buses after 9pm to these towns

Looking at the numbers, I do believe the increases to the Livingston area services will happen early next year.

Apparently the 09 plates are staying, while Livingston stands to gain all 25 of the 66 plates. Of course the 10 Gemini’s will depart, but that’s still a net gain of 15 vehicles, far more than the 7 or so extra needed for these December changes.

 

[overthewater]

We can agree on something, I think the 72/74 should have been prioritised over this - people have been crying out for ages for an increase of capacity (at least at peak times) on those routes.

There had to be a first When I first saw the notification of the changes I was like hooray, and was about to give a good level of praise, but like many others can't get my head around why they have done it this way around first. Running a bus 5mins ahead every 30mins doesn't give anyone an improvement.

You never know, Lothian are yet to provide improvements to a network screaming out for improvements and the people in the likes of Fauldhouse and West Calder to name a few will be furious that a stunt like the X19 is being pulled over a trivial £1 fare on McGills that will make no difference to Lothian when theres still and hourly service and no buses after 9pm to these towns

They could always try South Queensferry again. People are still waiting at the Bridge Tolls to catch Stagecoach buses going into the city. Mcgills could easily bring back the old No40 once an hour: Ie Edinburgh - A90 coming off bus lane - Scotstoun- Anti clockwise around the ferry then back down A90, they crying out for a better service.

Looking at the numbers, I do believe the increases to the Livingston area services will happen early next year.

The earliest they could have further changes would be 1st March 2025 as the 90 day still applies. The only route that's not had a change is No74 but strangely that has competition on it with blue bus

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

There had to be a first When I first saw the notification of the changes I was like hooray, and was about to give a good level of praise, but like many others can't get my head around why they have done it this way around first. Running a bus 5mins ahead every 30mins doesn't give anyone an improvement.



They could always try South Queensferry again. People are still waiting at the Bridge Tolls to catch Stagecoach buses going into the city. Mcgills could easily bring back the old No40 once an hour: Ie Edinburgh - A90 coming off bus lane - Scotstoun- Anti clockwise around the ferry then back down A90, they crying out for a better service.




The earliest they could have further changes would be 1st March 2025 as the 90 day still applies. The only route that's not had a change is No74 but strangely that has competition on it with blue bus

Stuarts you mean lol, not really competition it's a subsidised route it's just always seems to appear before the 74 hence why they've had to put Evoras on the route for capacity

 

[muffy]

Having used to drop my child off at Child Minders in Kirkliston, I regularly observed full and standing X38's in the morning rush at Kirkliston.
Living in Calderwood, I have observed that there is a fair of traffic especially in the peak hours.
I would imagine as more buses go to Livingston there will be another review.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

They could always try South Queensferry again. People are still waiting at the Bridge Tolls to catch Stagecoach buses going into the city. Mcgills could easily bring back the old No40 once an hour: Ie Edinburgh - A90 coming off bus lane - Scotstoun- Anti clockwise around the ferry then back down A90, they crying out for a better service.

Are they crying out for a better service? The 43 while is does go the long way round is busy. The 40/A/B ultimately failed as a circle was difficult to keep to time with the unpredictable traffic in the peak hours.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Looking at the numbers, I do believe the increases to the Livingston area services will happen early next year.

everyone expected this last year aswell when they first took over and look where they are a year down the line

Apparently the 09 plates are staying, while Livingston stands to gain all 25 of the 66 plates. Of course the 10 Gemini’s will depart, but that’s still a net gain of 15 vehicles, far more than the 7 or so extra needed for these December changes.

Are all 25 65 plates moving for definite? Definitely enough vehicles to cover a full West Lothian expansion

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Are all 25 65 plates moving for definite? Definitely enough vehicles to cover a full West Lothian expansion

I couldn’t say for certain, but I’m told it’s very likely.

I think the business is keen to standardise across the board, so I wouldn’t be surprised if further Gemini3’s move in the future after the 66 plates. Possibly 551-570 among others.

 

[scosutsut]

Given the published schedule for electrification it makes sense for the 66 plates to move to Livingston as they would be ~15 years old in 2031 and due retirement on the normal 15 year rule they seem to be loosely targeting again.

Perhaps 17 plates going to see off the ex London's in 2026 would make further sense but main fleet is going to need significant levels of deliveries to achieve that and also thin out their substantial stock of 2011 native and ex London B9TLs.

Not to mention Musselburgh needing more modern stock to let the ex Airlink B9TLs leave and to take it to 2033.

A mad idea would be at the right time to rotate all B5TL/Gemini 3 stock at ECB to LCB (as it's a better fit age profile wise and nearly exactly the right number to get rid of the ex Londons) and switch ECB deckers to pure B5TL/Enviro 400 operation.

Again significant deliveries needed to main fleet to allow any of this.

No matter what it's going to be interesting and gives plenty for us to theorise on!

 

[TheEastCoaster]

You never know, Lothian are yet to provide improvements to a network screaming out for improvements and the people in the likes of Fauldhouse and West Calder to name a few will be furious that a stunt like the X19 is being pulled over a trivial £1 fare on McGills that will make no difference to Lothian when theres still and hourly service and no buses after 9pm to these towns

I do agree, it is very unfair in comparison, Kirkliston and Winchburgh get a new service and a night bus, but the people of West Calder have to be back home by 9pm or they are without a bus link? seems very unfair if you ask me.

The earliest they could have further changes would be 1st March 2025 as the 90 day still applies. The only route that's not had a change is No74 but strangely that has competition on it with blue bus

I won't hold my breath, especially after waiting a whole year, but hopefully someone at LCB will check up on Social Media and passenger numbers and realise, hey.. we represent this county, maybe we should improve it?

Having used to drop my child off at Child Minders in Kirkliston, I regularly observed full and standing X38's in the morning rush at Kirkliston.

Well then I'm sure the people of Kirkliston are going to relish in this new service X19, hopefully!

A few unmentioned changes are return journeys for the N18/N28 to Edinburgh, which aren't a thing now as far as I'm aware.

 

[jb66]

Extension of the N43 makes sense, although takes longer to get to uphall and broxburn it's better than loosing the night service

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Extension of the N43 makes sense, although takes longer to get to uphall and broxburn it's better than loosing the night service

Just taking a scenic route via South Queensferry, that’s all!

 

[overthewater]

Stuarts you mean lol, not really competition it's a subsidised route it's just always seems to appear before the 74 hence why they've had to put Evoras on the route for capacity

That a blast from the past I was thinking off, Its been 6 years since they left route 71, Actually they blamed Lothian for themselves closing down.

Are they crying out for a better service? The 43 while is does go the long way round is busy. The 40/A/B ultimately failed as a circle was difficult to keep to time with the unpredictable traffic in the peak hours.

I would say so, why would anyone in Scotstoun want to spend an hour on a bus jut to get into Edinburgh City centre. Lets be fair 40/A/B never had the bus lanes which are now in place and would actually made a big difference.

Having used to drop my child off at Child Minders in Kirkliston, I regularly observed full and standing X38's in the morning rush at Kirkliston.
Living in Calderwood, I have observed that there is a fair of traffic especially in the peak hours.
I would imagine as more buses go to Livingston there will be another review.

To be fair, I have also seen these full standing loads, at peak and also on a Saturday. Didn't First use to operate two peak journeys start in Winchburgh using duties from the Livingston depot.

 

[Humberscot]

That a blast from the past I was thinking off, Its been 6 years since they left route 71, Actually they blamed Lothian for themselves closing down.

I would say so, why would anyone in Scotstoun want to spend an hour on a bus jut to get into Edinburgh City centre. Lets be fair 40/A/B never had the bus lanes which are now in place and would actually made a big difference.


To be fair, I have also seen these full standing loads, at peak and also on a Saturday. Didn't First use to operate two peak journeys start in Winchburgh using duties from the Livingston depot.

Winchburgh is a massive market to tap into. I did say at the time that it was a mistake that they had pulled their version of the X38 (which was really a copy of the First route up to Linlithgow with 13-plate single deckers and a few extra stickers). The new bus stops went up yesterday for the Winchburgh end of the route for the X19 and the 72 (slight) rerouting. There is definitely enough business here to support more buses to Edinburgh particularly until the train station arrives (if ever). Yes the A8 going past the Airport can be a car park at times but that's where people are heading from Winchburgh and the amount of new building here and in Kirkliston is significant. Will be very interesting to see whether customers stick with McGills (the buses they have on are quite nice since their takeover and better than the First Streetairs - even though the Royal Route vinyls were nice! - reliability is not too bad either atm) or move to Lothian.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I wonder why they didn't consider running the X19 via Old Liston Road, giving them a direct city link rather than walking, realistically would it take away that many minutes from the journey?