ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

Northhighland · 4 Jun 2019

Mingulay said:
If the refurbished stock is leaking already that is unacceptable and does not bode well for life of this programme.

I noticed a few weeks ago crossing a foot bridge at Waverley over a refurbished set at rest. That it was clear that the roof had lots of patches of various sizes along the roof surface. Then painted over. I am surprised refurbishment extends to just patching . As in any flat ish roof. That’s a short term fix . Was that all that was done to weatherproof?

I will no doubt be shot down by those with more knowledge. But I had a flat lead roof replaced with a fibreglass membrane . Looks like lead but lightweight and easily applied over profiled surface and repaired and cheaper. I wonder whether a similar technique could have been used on the carriage roof. Perhaps not flexible enough? There are very strong rubber like membranes tat are used in flat roofs that are bonded to the roof and give a uniform seamless watertight finish.

Lots of solutions out there that could work on this application. However the situation is now that means taking the rake out of service to do the repair. Pretty poor if newly refurbed stock didn't have the roof done properly. This is the type of mes that could really affect the perception of success for the introduction of the HST.

It seems to be dogged with problems, the refurbed sets don't seem that reliable, if they now have leaks that is bad, when you couple this with the staff training issues, seems we are due more disruption later in the year to finish the training programme, that will not go down well. Just seems the overall program management of this is totally disjointed. Sad as this has the potential to be a really good story. Was on a classic and a refurb last week, both were excellent environments to travel in, much better than the 158 or the 170.

Feel sorry for staff on the HML over the summer, they will be at the front line taking the crap for something they have not been responsible for, must be demoralising.

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Bletchleyite · 4 Jun 2019

One presumes these are welded metal patches, which are going to be much more watertight than patching a bitumenised flat roof? Welding in replacement sections to a corroded steel structure is not necessarily a short-term fix even if it might look like one.

Northhighland · 4 Jun 2019

Bletchleyite said:
One presumes these are welded metal patches, which are going to be much more watertight than patching a bitumenised flat roof? Welding in replacement sections to a corroded steel structure is not necessarily a short-term fix even if it might look like one.

Think the issue is what are they covering the patches with, what is the waterproof coating covering the steel. Agreed make good metal decking for the roof first, then what is it being covered with?

jingsmonty · 4 Jun 2019

Northhighland said:
Lots of solutions out there that could work on this application. However the situation is now that means taking the rake out of service to do the repair. Pretty poor if newly refurbed stock didn't have the roof done properly. This is the type of mes that could really affect the perception of success for the introduction of the HST.

It seems to be dogged with problems, the refurbed sets don't seem that reliable, if they now have leaks that is bad, when you couple this with the staff training issues, seems we are due more disruption later in the year to finish the training programme, that will not go down well. Just seems the overall program management of this is totally disjointed. Sad as this has the potential to be a really good story. Was on a classic and a refurb last week, both were excellent environments to travel in, much better than the 158 or the 170.

Feel sorry for staff on the HML over the summer, they will be at the front line taking the crap for something they have not been responsible for, must be demoralising.

We seem to have less HSTs on the HML just now, as opposed to more. I think this was a late change to the diagrams. Our diagrams will change Week Commemcing 17/6, when the A2I line will be closed from Huntly - Dyce. Maybe we'll see some changes then?

HSTs (even Classics) would be welcome on the HML during the summer months - the trains tend to be overloaded with passengers & luggage (I was a Conductor before & I've worked busy summer HML trains in the summer - it's not fun!).

Goldromans · 4 Jun 2019

I remember this issue being discussed earlier, but is there a reason luggage for end-to-end journeys couldn't be stored in the power cars if ScotRail are already planning on doing this with bikes?

jingsmonty · 4 Jun 2019

Goldromans said:
I remember this issue being discussed earlier, but is there a reason luggage for end-to-end journeys couldn't be stored in the power cars if ScotRail are already planning on doing this with bikes?

Couldn't agree more with you - suggested this on Yammer as well - why not? Other TOCS have done this, it's a logical thing to do.

Wst71Pa2 · 4 Jun 2019

If my source is right a refurb just sat down in the Gleneagles area and is causing some head scratching

CJSwan · 4 Jun 2019

Wst71Pa2 said:
If my source is right a refurb just sat down in the Gleneagles area and is causing some head scratching

I think it’s a classic/unrefurbished set, I’ve heard HA02 has power problems.

Also, HA24 was supposed to work the 16:30 Aberdeen to Glasgow, but that failed before leaving Aberdeen. Saw it on platform 5 with several of the exterior door lights flashing away. Resulting in a Montrose working being cancelled, probably because the set working that was sent to Glasgow.

Wst71Pa2 · 4 Jun 2019

CJSwan said:
I think it’s a classic/unrefurbished set, I’ve heard HA02 has power problems.

Also, HA24 was supposed to work the 16:30 Aberdeen to Glasgow, but that failed before leaving Aberdeen. Saw it on platform 5 with several of the exterior door lights flashing away. Resulting in a Montrose working being cancelled, probably because the set working that was sent to Glasgow.

Ah the disco lights fault, Again, not bad for newly rewired!

scotraildriver · 4 Jun 2019

Wst71Pa2 said:
Ah the disco lights fault, Again, not bad for newly rewired!

Unfortunately that fault is usually a result of crew error/unfamiliarity. If the crew access door is opened from the outside but not reset from the inside before arming the doors that fault occurs. It's not normally a problem with the train.

sde426 · 4 Jun 2019

43096 said:
...The shortly to be published HST Haynes Manual (available here: https://www.125group.org.uk/product/inter-city-125-haynes-manual/) has photos of the work in progress, I believe.

The already released Haynes manual... Took delivery of mine on Saturday, and very good it is too. Very interesting and informative.

chuff chuff · 4 Jun 2019

scotraildriver said:
Unfortunately that fault is usually a result of crew error/unfamiliarity. If the crew access door is opened from the outside but not reset from the inside before arming the doors that fault occurs. It's not normally a problem with the train.

This is part of the problem, there is no attempt to spread this sort of knowledge other than guys talking in the bothy.It was even mentioned several weeks ago on the company yammer about sharing this sort of thing out to the crews but it just seems continual denial from those running the project.

Bletchleyite · 4 Jun 2019

scotraildriver said:
Unfortunately that fault is usually a result of crew error/unfamiliarity. If the crew access door is opened from the outside but not reset from the inside before arming the doors that fault occurs. It's not normally a problem with the train.

Seems an awful piece of design to me.

scotraildriver · 4 Jun 2019

chuff chuff said:
This is part of the problem, there is no attempt to spread this sort of knowledge other than guys talking in the bothy.It was even mentioned several weeks ago on the company yammer about sharing this sort of thing out to the crews but it just seems continual denial from those running the project.

Whilst I cannot speak for other depots or grades, the importance of doing this procedure properly was certainly highlighted to me in my training as it has caused a fair number of issues. Granted it's not a great design but apparently what was available within the wiring constraints of a mk3 coach.

Bletchleyite · 4 Jun 2019

scotraildriver said:
Whilst I cannot speak for other depots or grades, the importance of doing this procedure properly was certainly highlighted to me in my training as it has caused a fair number of issues. Granted it's not a great design but apparently what was available within the wiring constraints of a mk3 coach.

Is the door circuit for the refurbished coaches not completely new? In which case surely it could have been wired however they liked?

scotraildriver · 4 Jun 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Is the door circuit for the refurbished coaches not completely new? In which case surely it could have been wired however they liked?

The crew access door circuit is seperate from the passenger door one. If both are active at the same time as a result of incorrect procedure it gets confused. Not great design though.

chuff chuff · 4 Jun 2019

scotraildriver said:
Whilst I cannot speak for other depots or grades, the importance of doing this procedure properly was certainly highlighted to me in my training as it has caused a fair number of issues. Granted it's not a great design but apparently what was available within the wiring constraints of a mk3 coach.

Being on one of the first courses we've probably missed out on stuff like this that they've discovered as they've gone along.

jingsmonty · 5 Jun 2019

scotraildriver said:
Unfortunately that fault is usually a result of crew error/unfamiliarity. If the crew access door is opened from the outside but not reset from the inside before arming the doors that fault occurs. It's not normally a problem with the train.

scotraildriver said:
Whilst I cannot speak for other depots or grades, the importance of doing this procedure properly was certainly highlighted to me in my training as it has caused a fair number of issues. Granted it's not a great design but apparently what was available within the wiring constraints of a mk3 coach.

This is good information, cheers! I've not done the refurbished training yet, so it's something I'll certainly keep it in mind

Highlandspring · 5 Jun 2019

HA22 moving to Inverness today -
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O11093/2019/06/05/advanced

jingsmonty · 5 Jun 2019

Highlandspring said:
HA22 moving to Inverness today -
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O11093/2019/06/05/advanced

Cheers!

hexagon789 · 5 Jun 2019

Highlandspring said:
HA22 moving to Inverness today -
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O11093/2019/06/05/advanced

Is that set purely for training purposes at the moment?

Highlandspring · 5 Jun 2019

Yes .

hexagon789 · 5 Jun 2019

Highlandspring said:
Yes .

I'm guessing this is a standard thing then, that a set goes on training duties when first delivered?

Northhighland · 5 Jun 2019

So if the refurb sets are all being used for training when not in service we must be starting to come to the end of the training surely? Earlier posts on the thread suggested the training was stopped to ensure the new timetable ran smoothly and further disruption was expected in the back end. Anyone know if training is coming to an end?

chuff chuff · 5 Jun 2019

Northhighland said:
So if the refurb sets are all being used for training when not in service we must be starting to come to the end of the training surely? Earlier posts on the thread suggested the training was stopped to ensure the new timetable ran smoothly and further disruption was expected in the back end. Anyone know if training is coming to an end?

The three week courses for drivers have been as far as I'm aware have been suspended till later in the year,conversion onto the refurb is a couple of hours for drivers and a bit more for guards.

Highlandspring · 5 Jun 2019

Northhighland said:
So if the refurb sets are all being used for training when not in service we must be starting to come to the end of the training surely?

Not all the refurbished sets are being used for training, only HA22 at Inverness.

nat67 · 6 Jun 2019

Highlandspring said:
Not all the refurbished sets are being used for training, only HA22 at Inverness.

But wasn't Inverness the last depot to get the training for the refurbished set's?

Northhighland · 6 Jun 2019

Highlandspring said:
Not all the refurbished sets are being used for training, only HA22 at Inverness.

So seems a lot of training left to do. Poor effort from Scotrail. Risks undermining success of the whole project. Feel really sorry for staff.

hexagon789 · 6 Jun 2019

Just two refurbs out today it looks like?

These services according to ScotRail:
Edinburgh - Aberdeen: 0729, 0928, 1628 Aberdeen - Edinburgh: 1102, 1312, 2010

7522 · 6 Jun 2019

Pair of Inter7city power cars just passed Newcastle going south. 43176 was one of them.

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